Looks like the call to squib may not have made it to Bass

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

10 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

A run back to the 40 takes longer than a touchback and 15 yard pass

 I agree but McDemott was probably banking on our defense not allowing a completion. Or at least not allowing two. But I’m not sure what he was thinking with those defensive formations. Maybe he will say there was miss communication there too.

[DrPJax]

On 1/26/2022 at 10:07 AM, T master said:

At what point do they talk about it on the link you posted i really don't have 2 hrs to listen right now to the entire thing to get their take sorry . 

I watched it live and they started off talking about it fairly quickly. Definitely within 15-30 min as it was such a huge thing. The main film analysis guy is Eric , and he has been excellent with film sessions the entire year.  Very talented guy, and he Was forceful and backed it up without divulging his source , that a Squibb was the call. He obviously has an inside connection he can’t identify. It’s not click bait. His proof was the kicking teams players response during and after the play, as well as sideline coaches responses. In a year of watching him I have learned quite a bit of strategy, he is honest , very pro bills , and he was adamant he was informed it was to have been a Squibb kick. I really believe him and the show also had video with audio clips of Kelce telling Mahomes the seam would be open , and Mahomes the yelling for Kelce to “  do it Kelce, do it “ which refers to having Kelce adjust his route by in breaking ( opposite of an exact same formation play ran earlier in the game where Wallace tried jamming and followed Kelce. Had they just done that same D , no. Way Kelce runs free down the seam to set up the fg! ). 
 

 It’s worth checking the first hour which is all about the last13 seconds and the d breakdowns only. Last hour is offense about all Allen’s great plays. Main point is the communication breakdown from ST coach to kicker. This is high school stuff and it’s shocking to see happen at the NFL level.  In my field , a comparison would be like a dr with 20 years experience , making a Med school student level mistake.   Special teams played a role in losses this year , now a large role in losing this game ( also gave up the long punt return) ,so this is more than one incident. Mcd is taking the high , leadership road, just saying it was “. Execution “ , and so it will be up to him how it goes forward.  I would not be able to trust the ST coach again , fearing a similar blunder , so personally it would require a scenario now for full proof communication , or I would move on. Depends on how much Mcd values this as growth and as a human we all make mistakes , or does he see it strictly as a business that requires competency at a certain level to go forth.  Good film session tho , and I am convinced Mcd knows they blew it , starting with the kick , but it also shows they melted down with decision making defensively even after using 2 time outs to be sure they knew the KC formations.  The players then froze and allowed Kelce to out think and out play them. It is sickening in a way because Wallace and the d line come off looking unintelligent as players situationally.   Lost opportunity is the stark , painful reality. 

Edited January 28, 2022 by DrPJax

[AuntieEm]

18 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

I would even say flustered and fold, if this is true the execution was no one filled in the kicker.

 

In this situation every player was focusing on what their responsibilities are, seems like the ST coach should have ensured all 11 players were there and accounted for. How no one realized Bass wasnt filled in is a big failure on the coaching staff's shoulders, not one other playing noticing he wasnt there is unfortunate. The failure was making sure all 11 were there when it was told....

 

   Simple solution going forward.  Make it that x player on ST always talks to bass before each KO to if uts being drilled out of EZ or is it a shorter kick to pin them deep. In any season there's enough variation to have that easily become routine.

 

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by AuntieEm

[Billsfan1972]

Whatever happened it was a colossal failure (as I've said umpteen times).  It rests on the coach unable to execute the final 13 seconds.

 

We can look at plays every game where there are wrong decisions/calls.  This called for micromanaging only 13 seconds....

 

Can someone with knowledge explain what the process is prior to a kickoff?  

 

Call me dumb, but the players and the kicker have to be together and told what you are doing.  It's like going to a huddle and everyone is there but the QB???

 

I know too (I swear) that somewhere in the back of my mind that on Sunday I was thinking with 17 seconds to go.... "Don't score too quick"...

Edited January 27, 2022 by Billsfan1972

[Your Brown Eye]

[Ned Flanders]

9 hours ago, NoSaint said:

A run back to the 40 takes longer than a touchback and 15 yard pass

Agree, in this scenario, you're probably left with six seconds, max.

[buffalostu2]

What if they returned the squib to the 50?  Wouldn't we be crushing McD for that?   With 13 seconds left the Chiefs would have been holding like crazy and the ref crew for the game throws the least amount of flags in the league

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

50 minutes ago, buffalostu2 said:

What if they returned the squib to the 50?  Wouldn't we be crushing McD for that?   With 13 seconds left the Chiefs would have been holding like crazy and the ref crew for the game throws the least amount of flags in the league

 

if they return it to the 50 enough time runs off the clock that they only have time for one more play before kicking a field goal. So it basically comes down to can the defense stop them from picking up 10 to 13 yards to give them a shot at a very long field goal attempt.

 

I’m not sure McDermott would’ve changed the defensive scheme in that situation. He probably would’ve rolled with the same defensive scheme that allowed Kelce to put them in field-goal range.

Everyone is thinking they would return the squib and 3 to 5 seconds would roll off the clock. But I’m not sure they wouldn’t just fall on the ball or take a knee. In that case maybe just one second comes off the clock? But there’s a chance they end up with the ball inside the 25 yard line in that scenario.

 

[CorkScrewHill]

Was looking at some highlights from 2020 when I noticed something.  Bills up by 3 with 15 seconds left .. and the Bills squib kicked .. taking 6 seconds off the clock. TD was at 15 seconds, Rams started there desperation play at 9 seconds.

 

I don't think McD would do something different which to me reinforces either Bass was confused or Bass didn't get the message.

[Doc Brown]

14 minutes ago, CorkScrewHill said:

Was looking at some highlights from 2020 when I noticed something.  Bills up by 3 with 15 seconds left .. and the Bills squib kicked .. taking 6 seconds off the clock. TD was at 15 seconds, Rams started there desperation play at 9 seconds.

 

I don't think McD would do something different which to me reinforces either Bass was confused or Bass didn't get the message.

Good catch.  I re-watched it with NFL gamepass and they did squib it with 15 seconds left and the Rams returner took it from the 10 to the 25 taking five seconds off the clock. 

 

A very similar scenario with the only difference being that the Rams had zero timeouts left while the Chiefs had three so that could've led McDermott to doing something different.  It's frustrating watching that back how simple it was to execute.  McDermott choked in the most crucial of moments and only a Super Bowl victory will atone for that.  If not the "13 seconds" will haunt him until his last breath.  Oh well.  Let's get that fast guy at #25.

[Doc]

5 hours ago, CorkScrewHill said:

Was looking at some highlights from 2020 when I noticed something.  Bills up by 3 with 15 seconds left .. and the Bills squib kicked .. taking 6 seconds off the clock. TD was at 15 seconds, Rams started there desperation play at 9 seconds.

 

I don't think McD would do something different which to me reinforces either Bass was confused or Bass didn't get the message.

 

Again the fact that he was off to the side and kicked a TB tells me he was told the kick a TB and then the call changed and he wasn't told.  By Farwell.  Who is now gone.

[nucci]

still, the squib wasn't the big problem.It was the D calls after

[JaCrispy]

26 minutes ago, nucci said:

still, the squib wasn't the big problem.It was the D calls after

Yup...it shows lack of awareness of the situation by the HC

[Gugny]

32 minutes ago, nucci said:

still, the squib wasn't the big problem.It was the D calls after

 

5 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Yup...it shows lack of awareness of the situation by the HC

 

The end of regulation and the OT reminded me of the 1986 World Series.

 

Everyone likes to point out Bill Buckner's costly error that led to the Mets winning Game 6.  That was the last 13 seconds of the Bills/KC game.  Champagne was loaded into the Red Sox locker room; lockers were covered in plastic.  Then POOF.  I actually had a bottle of champagne sitting on my counter, for Christ's sakes.

 

BUT ... what no one likes to talk about is that the Red Sox had a lead in Game 7, too.  That was OT in the Bills/KC game.  And like the Red Sox, the Bills also pissed away ANOTHER chance to win the game.

 

This loss had a lot to do with the last 13 seconds.  But not everything.  OT was an embarrassment.

 

[Shaw66]

Bills fans will revisit this loss for a long, long time.  It was a disaster.

 

As the weeks have gone by, my view of it has come down to a simple conclusion:  responsibility for the loss falls squarely on McDermott.  

 

1.  I believe he called for a different kick, and Farwell didn't get the play call to all the players.   That's a failure by Farwell, but it's also a failure of supervision by McDermott.   His job is to be sure that his coordinators are preparing their teams properly, and getting the call to the teams is one of the most fundamental aspects of coaching.  Farwell failed at this fundamental, and McDermott is responsible for having a coach who didn't do the basics. 

 

2.  The defensive calls on the final two plays from scrimmage in regulation time were disastrous, and McDermott was directing the defensive philosophy.   

 

3.  The defensive team had a serious, and understandable, total letdown in overtime.  McDermott needed to get his team emotionally back up.  

 

All of those things ultimately are the responsibility of this head coach, and he blew it.  

 

And, of course, he knows it. 

Edited March 8, 2022 by Shaw66

[Beast]

On 1/26/2022 at 9:54 AM, Rock-A-Bye Beasley said:

Still McDermott’s fault if true, and doesn’t excuse the prevent, sideline, 4-man-rush defense which is also his fault. 

the second part doesn’t track because they called two timeouts before plays. The defense had plenty of time to adjust. 

 

McDermott is busy with Frazier scheming a defense. His worry shouldn't be his ST coach getting the message to the kicker.

[billsfan1959]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

1.  I believe he called for a different kick, and Farwell didn't get the play call to all the players.   That's a failure by Farwell, but it's also a failure of supervision by McDermott.   His job is to be sure that his coordinators are preparing their teams properly, and getting the call to the teams is one of the most fundamental aspects of coaching.  Farwell failed at this fundamental, and McDermott is responsible for having a coach who didn't do the basics. 

 

If this is, in fact, the scenario that happened, the responsibility goes squarely on Farwell. Period. As you say, it is a fundamental aspect of coaching and a head coach is not going to monitor simple, fundamental procedures on the part of assistant coaches - even in that particular circumstance - without some reason to believe Farwell couldn't handle such a basic responsibility.

 

If Farwell had a history of demonstrating he couldn't carry out basic, fundamental responsibilities, then I would agree that McDermott should be held accountable for keeping such a coach on the team. But there is no evidence of that. Absent such evidence there is no reason for McDermott to ensure that Farwell got the message to his kicker or, for that matter, to even give it a secong thought.

 

McDermott certainly has his culpability in what happened at the end of regulation and in overtime (as do other coaches and players); however, in the scenario you laid out, he is not the one who should bear the blame.

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

If this is, in fact, the scenario that happened, the responsibility goes squarely on Farwell. Period. As you say, it is a fundamental aspect of coaching and a head coach is not going to monitor simple, fundamental procedures on the part of assistant coaches - even in that particular circumstance - without some reason to believe Farwell couldn't handle such a basic responsibility.

 

If Farwell had a history of demonstrating he couldn't carry out basic, fundamental responsibilities, then I would agree that McDermott should be held accountable for keeping such a coach on the team. But there is no evidence of that. Absent such evidence there is no reason for McDermott to ensure that Farwell got the message to his kicker or, for that matter, to even give it a secong thought.

 

McDermott certainly has his culpability in what happened at the end of regulation and in overtime (as do other coaches and players); however, in the scenario you laid out, he is not the one who should bear the blame.

I agree, and that's what I've always said.   I didn't say here that McDermott was supposed to talk to Bass or any of that. 

 

But I don't agree it's "on Farwell.  Period."   And I don't think McDermott would agree, either.  McDermott is about systems and details, and play calling is about the most fundamental detail around.   McDermott's job as head coach, among other things, is to be sure that his coordinators get details right.   In the case of fundamental details, like getting the play called correctly, his job is to be sure his coordinators get those things 100% right.  Farwell didn't, which means McDermott failed to recognize that he had a problem with his coordinator, whether it had happened before or not.   

[LABILLBACKER]

On 1/26/2022 at 6:52 AM, Steptide said:

If true, that's legit terrible. The ONE guy who needs to know didn't know 

Sorry but in a extremely high leverage situation like that, McD absolutely cannot depend on a delivery boy to send a message to Farwell to send a message to Bass & Co.  And if the squib was called,  that too was the wrong choice. Should've 100% been a pooch to the 10.

[Don Otreply]

5 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree, and that's what I've always said.   I didn't say here that McDermott was supposed to talk to Bass or any of that. 

 

But I don't agree it's "on Farwell.  Period."   And I don't think McDermott would agree, either.  McDermott is about systems and details, and play calling is about the most fundamental detail around.   McDermott's job as head coach, among other things, is to be sure that his coordinators get details right.   In the case of fundamental details, like getting the play called correctly, his job is to be sure his coordinators get those things 100% right.  Farwell didn't, which means McDermott failed to recognize that he had a problem with his coordinator, whether it had happened before or not.   

I’m thinking if what you’re saying is the fact of the matter, the STs coach’s blunder, in essence, blindsided McDermott, he would have had no inkling that his assistant coach would make such a mistake, that would not be McDermotts fault, but as the HC, he has to take the responsibility for it, it’s just part and parcel of his job…, note our STC is now in effect, “unemployed in Greenland”…, 

(movie reference)