Brandon Beane Season Ending Presser Weds 1/27

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Georgia Bill said:

Isn't it true that if we had won the Jax or Pittsburgh games, we'd have been playing KC in Buffalo instead?  Just that shift in venue could have given us the tiny edge we needed.  We are so close to KC, I don't think it would be wise to over-react and start ditching coaches or tearing up the roster.   With that said, last year prior to the Super Bowl most were saying no one could slow down KC's offense.  Then the Bucs did with a great defense.  They seemed to have an answer for Kelce in particular.  Why can't we get there?  

 

I don't think Beane is gonna be tearing up the roster for no good reason.

 

But he's going to have to either re-sign, or draft/sign replacements for a lot of the roster.  This may help define the problem.  I bolded the FA:

 

Offense

WR Emmanuel Sanders Gabriel Davis

LT Dion Dawkins Spencer Brown

LG Ryan Bates Jon Feliciano Ike Boettger

C Mitch Morse Ryan Bates

RG Daryl Williams Cody Ford

RT Spencer Brown Tommy Doyle

TE Dawson Knox Tommy Sweeney

QB Josh Allen Mitchell Trubisky

RB Devin Singletary Zack Moss Matt Breida Taiwan Jones

FB Reggie Gilliam

WR Cole Beasley Isaiah McKenzie (ST KR)

WR Stefon Diggs Jake Kumerow (?ST Gunner)

 

LDE Greg Rousseau A.J. Epenesa Efe Obada

DT Ed Oliver Vernon Butler

DT Star Lotulelei Harrison Phillips Justin Zimmer

RDE Jerry Hughes Mario Addison Boogie Basham

MLB Tremaine Edmunds Tyrel Dodson Tyler Matakevich

WLB Matt Milano A.J. Klein Andre Smith

NCB Taron Johnson Siran Neal (ST Gunner)

CB Tre'Davious White  Dane Jackson

CB Levi Wallace Dane Jackson

S Jordan Poyer  Damar Hamlin

S Micah Hyde  Jaquan Johnson

 

Going from the bottom to the top:

CB: Need to re-sign or replace Wallace, and for the start of the year need to replace Tre White who is likely to be PUP/IR through training camp

       We were also very thin, as shown by a depth chart where the backup to both CB positions was playing 

Need: 2 players  (at least 1 starter)

LB: Like it or don't, I think we're set. 

DT: Pretty sure Beane wants both Phillips and Zimmer back, plus an additional player.  Phillips had taken over as starter for Lotulelei.

Need: 3 players (at least 1 starter)

DE: Need at least 1 player.  IMHO need an upgrade, badly.

Overall on defense:  Need to draft, re-sign, or sign 6 players, at least 3 starters

 

LG/backup: Need to re-sign or replace Bates and Boettger (1 starter)

C : if there's truth to the rumors Morse will retire, need a true starting-quality C (1 starter)

T: may need an upgrade to Doyle as ST, unclear

QB: need a backup QB

WR: need a replacement to Isaiah if we let him walk - that fast guy who can do all the gadget plays, block as well as anyone in the league on a per-pound basis, and run routes

Overall on offense: Need to draft, re-sign, or sign 2 starters and 3 backups

 

ST:

KR/PR and potentially replacements for 2 gunners (Neal and Jones)

Punter: 'cuz Beane didn't sound happy!

 

HTH

 

 

[MWK]

20 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't think Beane is gonna be tearing up the roster for no good reason.

 

But he's going to have to either re-sign, or draft/sign replacements for a lot of the roster.  This may help define the problem.  I bolded the FA:

 

Offense

WR Emmanuel Sanders Gabriel Davis

LT Dion Dawkins Spencer Brown

LG Ryan Bates Jon Feliciano Ike Boettger

C Mitch Morse Ryan Bates

RG Daryl Williams Cody Ford

RT Spencer Brown Tommy Doyle

TE Dawson Knox Tommy Sweeney

QB Josh Allen Mitchell Trubisky

RB Devin Singletary Zack Moss Matt Breida Taiwan Jones

FB Reggie Gilliam

WR Cole Beasley Isaiah McKenzie (ST KR)

WR Stefon Diggs Jake Kumerow (?ST Gunner)

 

LDE Greg Rousseau A.J. Epenesa Efe Obada

DT Ed Oliver Vernon Butler

DT Star Lotulelei Harrison Phillips Justin Zimmer

RDE Jerry Hughes Mario Addison Boogie Basham

MLB Tremaine Edmunds Tyrel Dodson Tyler Matakevich

WLB Matt Milano A.J. Klein Andre Smith

NCB Taron Johnson Siran Neal (ST Gunner)

CB Tre'Davious White  Dane Jackson

CB Levi Wallace Dane Jackson

S Jordan Poyer  Damar Hamlin

S Micah Hyde  Jaquan Johnson

 

Going from the bottom to the top:

CB: Need to re-sign or replace Wallace, and for the start of the year need to replace Tre White who is likely to be PUP/IR through training camp

       We were also very thin, as shown by a depth chart where the backup to both CB positions was playing 

Need: 2 players  (at least 1 starter)

LB: Like it or don't, I think we're set. 

DT: Pretty sure Beane wants both Phillips and Zimmer back, plus an additional player.  Phillips had taken over as starter for Lotulelei.

Need: 3 players (at least 1 starter)

DE: Need at least 1 player.  IMHO need an upgrade, badly.

Overall on defense:  Need to draft, re-sign, or sign 6 players, at least 3 starters

 

LG/backup: Need to re-sign or replace Bates and Boettger (1 starter)

C : if there's truth to the rumors Morse will retire, need a true starting-quality C (1 starter)

T: may need an upgrade to Doyle as ST, unclear

QB: need a backup QB

WR: need a replacement to Isaiah if we let him walk - that fast guy who can do all the gadget plays, block as well as anyone in the league on a per-pound basis, and run routes

Overall on offense: Need to draft, re-sign, or sign 2 starters and 3 backups

 

ST:

KR/PR and potentially replacements for 2 gunners (Neal and Jones)

Punter: 'cuz Beane didn't sound happy!

 

HTH

 

 

So we just keep underachievers who are overpaid like Klein and Feliciano? In the name of “continuity”? Look how that continuity worked out this year. We have to cut some, otherwise we will just be doomed to repeat this season. 

Edited January 27, 2022 by MWK

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, MWK said:

So we just keep underachievers who are overpaid like Klein and Feliciano? We have to cut some, otherwise we will just be doomed to repeat this season

 

I'm not going into roster decisions here.  I was just talking the minimum of players that Beane needs to re-sign, or sign/draft replacements for.

 

I would expect Beane to be busy looking for upgrades at several positions on IOL - including potentially cutting Feliciano and Ford in favor of those upgrades - but they're both under contract, so I don't expect to see them go until/unless a clear upgrade is in place.  If Morse retires and Bates becomes our starting center or if he remains our starting LG, then Feliciano becomes our backup C and an IOL who can play both sides.  I don't see how having a quality backup C/IOL "dooms us to repeat this season".   

 

Feliciano would cost $1.5M in dead money while freeing up $3.5M.  So Beane has to feel comfortable he can sign a guy who can really play center and really play both sides as G for $3.5M or less, or he's not improving the team, he's degrading it.

 

As far as "underachievers like Klein", what exactly do you think Klein's role is and what is your evidence he fails to achieve it?

[HOUSE]

Did he say anything about beer prices for the 2022 season ?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

Did he say anything about beer prices for the 2022 season ?

 

He did not, but Spencer Brown drank one that wound up costing him $5,000.

 

I believe ordinary ticketholders can anticipate to pay less.

 

18 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I meant consistent failure going forward of not winning a SB because they have consistently erred on the side of caution with the cap…. They sat on their hands with a ton of available pass rushers available last off season opting for the ex Panther and a pair of rookies, the one big move they’ve made was Diggs…. They need a couple more playmakers on both sides of the ball, and I wish they would take more of a big splash risk in FA then they have to this point considering the only player they should be concerned with resigning at this point is Oliver going forward. 

 

I don't agree with this at all.  See post above.

 

 

[MWK]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm not going into roster decisions here.  I was just talking the minimum of players that Beane needs to re-sign, or sign/draft replacements for.

 

I would expect Beane to be busy looking for upgrades at several positions on IOL - including potentially cutting Feliciano and Ford in favor of those upgrades - but they're both under contract, so I don't expect to see them go until/unless a clear upgrade is in place.  If Morse retires and Bates becomes our starting center or if he remains our starting LG, then Feliciano becomes our backup C and an IOL who can play both sides.  I don't see how having a quality backup C/IOL "dooms us to repeat this season".   

 

Feliciano would cost $1.5M in dead money while freeing up $3.5M.  So Beane has to feel comfortable he can sign a guy who can really play center and really play both sides as G for $3.5M or less, or he's not improving the team, he's degrading it.

 

As far as "underachievers like Klein", what exactly do you think Klein's role is and what is your evidence he fails to achieve it?

There is nothing quality about Jon Feliciano. He is a below average player who is seen as being good by a small number of Bills fans who think he is tough. Saving 3.5 million on a guy who was benched is a no brainer. And for the price he is paid, Klein isn’t worth it. Why should we pay 6 million for a guy who barely plays? 

[Royale with Cheese]

12 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Didn’t you suggest the Bills draft Jordan Davis to bulk up the pass rush?…. Yea, he will be a huge help when Patrick Mahomes is running out of the pocket. 😅 Dude would’ve died on Sunday night. 

Well I certainly wouldn’t expect a bigger DT to run down a faster QB out of the pocket.

Do you think the the Bucs expect Vita Vea to chase down athletic QB’s outside of the pocket?

 

How I think he can help the pass rush is because he would free up Ed Oliver getting more one on ones.  Right now, Ed Oliver is double teamed almost as much as Aaron Donald.

 

But no, keep thinking I want a 340 lbs DT to chase down QB’s out of the pocket.

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

3 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Obviously you have to get it right… but suggesting it doesn’t work is false. Chiefs and Rams being prime examples. Hell the Rams have sacrificed their draft to be where they are right now…. Rather McBeane be a little risky and bring home a SB then consistently “stay the course” and consistently fail. 

 

2 hours ago, Mango said:

Technically you’re correct but that’s misleading. Your original post was along the lines of “spent a $100M on a handful of starters and get shredded by Josh”. OK. Sure. They won. And they were one of the very best defenses in the league through the back half of the season.

 

We have $2M in space and 53 on the roster after signing a million players to futures.  But we’re talking about how to get a new starting CB, DT, DE, LB, OG and slot receiver with that money. We might lose our starting center to retirement or cap causalty. While totally unsure if we can keep some of our top DE, DT, CB, and slot wide receivers. Meanwhile KC has more space and is pretty locked in at their starting front 7, OL, WR, and TE. 
 

KC seems like they are in a spot to sign a lot of depth players for cheap, because that’s where most of their needs are. Buffalo is trying upgrade like 7 starting positions with $2M. 

 

Guys, I was just pointing out you can't compare 53 players under contract to 38 players under contract and consider the cap space left an apples-to-apples comparison. I wasn't wading in to quality of roster or roster building strategy or anything else. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, MWK said:

There is nothing quality about Jon Feliciano. He is a below average player who is seen as being good by a small number of Bills fans who think he is tough. Saving 3.5 million on a guy who was benched is a no brainer.

 

OK.  Who are the above average, proven-able-to-play-in-the-NFL centers who can also play on either side as G, who you will be able to sign for $3.5M or less?

 

Just now, MWK said:

And for the price he is paid, Klein isn’t worth it. Why should we pay 6 million for a guy who barely plays? 

 

OK.  Who are the backup LB who know McDermott's system and are versatile enough to play any LB position and also play ST well, who you can sign for less?  And what is your definition of "barely plays"?  Klein played 30% of the defensive snaps this season, and 43% of the ST snaps; but last season, when we had more injuries, he played 61% of the defensive snaps.

 

I'm not saying that we're going to keep Klein - we may not, just as we may not keep Feliciano or Ford.

 

I'm just saying that before the Armchair GM cuts all the players he doesn't like, he needs to understand what role they actually play and have a feel for what it would take to sign a suitable replacement.

[MWK]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

OK.  Who are the above average, proven-able-to-play-in-the-NFL centers who can also play on either side as G, who you will be able to sign for $3.5M or less?

 

 

OK.  Who are the backup LB who know McDermott's system and are versatile enough to play any LB position and also play ST well, who you can sign for less?  And what is your definition of "barely plays"?  Klein played 30% of the defensive snaps this season, and 43% of the ST snaps; but last season, when we had more injuries, he played 61% of the defensive snaps.

 

I'm not saying that we're going to keep Klein - we may not, just as we may not keep Feliciano or Ford.

 

I'm just saying that before the Armchair GM cuts all the players he doesn't like, he needs to understand what role they actually play and have a feel for what it would take to sign a suitable replacement.

 

Not saying that we should be able to get an above average player for 3.5 million. I’m saying that Feliciano is a replacement level player who could be replaced easily with a rookie or minimum salary player. Very poor use of our resources. He was benched for a reason. Just because McDermott thinks he’s a nice guy doesn’t change that fact. 

 

As for Klein, it’s again a poor use of resources. A guy who plays such a small percentage of defensive snaps doesn’t need a 6 million dollar salary. He’s also not exactly an impact player. The only guy we have who is more of a liability in coverage is Edmunds.  We could draft a rookie or sign a guy for cheap to fill his role. As far as special teams goes, those players grow on trees, contrary to the belief of our personnel department who likes to pay them big money.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

12 hours ago, cage said:

 

I hope that reporters are preparing their questions.  Do not just ask "What happened in the last 13 seconds".  Set the context:

 

Brandon, the QB that you drafted, that fans have been waiting 25 years for and you signed to a $40m+ per year extension just lived up to everyones imagination and put on an all-world performance.  You got knocked from the playoffs for the 2nd straight year to the same team who may be headed to its 3rd straight SB.  The manner of the loss will live in infamy in the team's history right there with the worst losses we've absorbed.  You would have been the Super Bowl favorite from among the four teams left.  How do you evaluate what exactly happened and what has to change to fix it when you start all over again next year?

We know what happened. Epic coaching fail but Beane has no authority to do anything about. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

10 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Frazier didn't have a good game this time against the Chiefs. 

 

Every coach and player on the team had at least one bad game this season.  Do you want to get rid of Allen for his poor performance against the Jags?

 

Frazier led the #1 defense in the NFL.   Who do you want to replace him with?  The #10 guy?  The #20 guy?   The unproven DL coach?   Who?

 

 

 

 

 

Because HOF coaches like Bill Belichick always, always win big games.

 

Like against the Bills in the playoffs this year.  

Do you really believe they were the #1 defense in the league? 

34 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

OK.  Who are the above average, proven-able-to-play-in-the-NFL centers who can also play on either side as G, who you will be able to sign for $3.5M or less?

 

 

OK.  Who are the backup LB who know McDermott's system and are versatile enough to play any LB position and also play ST well, who you can sign for less?  And what is your definition of "barely plays"?  Klein played 30% of the defensive snaps this season, and 43% of the ST snaps; but last season, when we had more injuries, he played 61% of the defensive snaps.

 

I'm not saying that we're going to keep Klein - we may not, just as we may not keep Feliciano or Ford.

 

I'm just saying that before the Armchair GM cuts all the players he doesn't like, he needs to understand what role they actually play and have a feel for what it would take to sign a suitable replacement.

Isn't Bates the answer to your first question? He's already on the team and is a restricted FA.  Feliciano was ok. He was not terrible.  But he will be replaced with a rookie draft pick most likely.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

42 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

OK.  Who are the above average, proven-able-to-play-in-the-NFL centers who can also play on either side as G, who you will be able to sign for $3.5M or less?

 

 

OK.  Who are the backup LB who know McDermott's system and are versatile enough to play any LB position and also play ST well, who you can sign for less?  And what is your definition of "barely plays"?  Klein played 30% of the defensive snaps this season, and 43% of the ST snaps; but last season, when we had more injuries, he played 61% of the defensive snaps.

 

I'm not saying that we're going to keep Klein - we may not, just as we may not keep Feliciano or Ford.

 

I'm just saying that before the Armchair GM cuts all the players he doesn't like, he needs to understand what role they actually play and have a feel for what it would take to sign a suitable replacement.

Klein was worth the money and I'd be fine with him as a backup LB. You are correct he can start in a 4-3 and he can back up both positions. That said they should add at least one young linebacker in the bottom end of the draft. 

Mantekevic and Jones are guys that should be replaced with UDFA. Beane no longer has the luxury of wasting money on guys who do a 60 yard sprint as Bass kicks the ball in the endzone. 

[Scott7975]

7 hours ago, ArtVandalay said:

This is too harsh. We can go get a playmaker and still have Beasley. 

 

Brady's bread and butter in the EP offense was always sure handed guys that can get open from the slot: Troy Brown, Wes Welker, Julian Edelman... sure handed finding soft spots on the defense to keep the chains moving, it's a staple in the EP.

 

I'd like some dynamic ability as well, but that doesn't mean dump Beasley.

 

Honestly, I'd rather fill Sanders spot with a playmaker and keep Bease.

 

All those guys got YAC.  Beasley has lost a step and is getting old.  Time to move on.  We got torched with YAC.  On the flip side we got almost none.  It was all Allens arm.

7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't have a problem with Beane not going out and spending big in FA, given that we have people to re-sign and such

Unless he means we're not going to re-sign our own who are FA?  There are several I feel it would be a mistake to move on from

 

I do have a problem with a general pattern that many here have talked about, where other teams strategically make a move or addition during the season that turns out to significantly bolster an area of need - Ingram, OBJ, etc etc.

 

Imagine if Beane went out and got Von Miller instead of the Rams.  I bet Mahomes would have been on his ass at least a few times.  It cost the Rams a second and third round pick and the Broncos agreed to pay the remaining salary.  That should have been Beane making that move.  That one move could have made the difference.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Scott7975

[Hapless Bills Fan]

48 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Isn't Bates the answer to your first question? He's already on the team and is a restricted FA.  Feliciano was ok. He was not terrible.  But he will be replaced with a rookie draft pick most likely.

 

Oh, I didn't realize Bates was an RFA.  But, he was an UDFA so that's pretty limited in its utility, right?  We could offer him a 1st round tender for ~$5.5M, a 2nd round tender for ~$3.9M, or a 1st refusal tender for $2.4M. 

 

Whether Bates is the answer to the question "who are the above average, proven able to play in the NFL centers who can play either side at guard?" depends upon how the team sees him.  Beane said some pretty positive things that some of the improvement in Dawkins' play in the last part of the season being  a credit to Bates.  If the team sees him as having earned the starting LG job for next season and anyone else having to beat him out, then by definition he's not the backup center.

 

I hope we plan to draft a C/G, and with a high pick.  But Ford is living walking proof that it's not safe to put all your eggs in the "rookie pick" basket.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Oh, I didn't realize Bates was an RFA.  But, he was an UDFA so that's pretty limited in its utility, right?  We could offer him a 1st round tender for ~$5.5M, a 2nd round tender for ~$3.9M, or a 1st refusal tender for $2.4M. 

 

Whether Bates is the answer to the question "who are the above average, proven able to play in the NFL centers who can play either side at guard?" depends upon how the team sees him.  Beane said some pretty positive things that some of the improvement in Dawkins' play in the last part of the season being  a credit to Bates.  If the team sees him as having earned the starting LG job for next season and anyone else having to beat him out, then by definition he's not the backup center.

 

I hope we plan to draft a C/G, and with a high pick.  But Ford is living walking proof that it's not safe to put all your eggs in the "rookie pick" basket.

I don't get it. Why can't he be the backup center just because he is playing?  Williams was the back-up RT when he was playing RG?  Feliciano was the back-up cneter when he was plying guard.  

I too would draft a C/G high if they do not address in FA. Most of us advocated that last year instead of Basham.  I could see Beane making a big OG signing in FA and leaving the draft for defense and a WR.  

[SCBills]

9 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

All those guys got YAC.  Beasley has lost a step and is getting old.  Time to move on.  We got torched with YAC.  On the flip side we got almost none.  It was all Allens arm.

 

Imagine if Beane went out and got Von Miller instead of the Rams.  I bet Mahomes would have been on his ass at least a few times.  It cost the Rams a second and third round pick and the Broncos agreed to pay the remaining salary.  That should have been Beane making that move.  That one move could have made the difference.

Man, that steep for Von Miller who’s a FA after the year. 
 

I know he looked good last week, but the Bucs OL was beat up.  The Eagles were teeing off on Brady when Wirfs went down too.  

[Scott7975]

10 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Man, that steep for Von Miller who’s a FA after the year. 
 

I know he looked good last week, but the Bucs OL was beat up.  The Eagles were teeing off on Brady when Wirfs went down too.  

 

It's not really steep if it gets you over the hump. Again, just a sack or two on Mahomes may have made the difference. Who says he cant be re-signed to another contract?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I don't get it. Why can't he be the backup center just because he is playing?  Williams was the back-up RT when he was playing RG?  Feliciano was the back-up cneter when he was plying guard.  

I too would draft a C/G high if they do not address in FA. Most of us advocated that last year instead of Basham.  I could see Beane making a big OG signing in FA and leaving the draft for defense and a WR.  

 

I don't think we're going to see a big OG signing.  I think the pickin's  are pretty slim, and the price is steep.  For example, Austin Corbett from the Rams is projected to have an $8M AAV.

 

Bates can be the backup C while playing LG, just as Feliciano was last year while playing RG.  But that simply shifts the chain - then you need to make sure you've got a workable alternative at backup G

[popcornpam]

They better sign Bates. He made the line play so much better. Josh had more time to throw and was better protected. Also the running game was hundred percent better!