Frazier getting second interview with Joe Schoen and NYG

[KHAN]

We ranked #1 in defense because the bend but don't break premise works against bad teams. Eventually they make mistakes. We played a lot of bad offenses this year.

 

Good teams pick it apart. It's not good enough.

[PrimeTime101]

10 hours ago, Bferra13 said:

It is and it isn't. Frazier calls the plays and fd us that last 13 seconds. He also looked like a weirdo zombie the whole time the camera panned to him on the sideline like he was a corpse of himself. They'd be insane to hire him, but on the off 5% chance, I'll take what I can get.

HOLD on..... There has been games where McD did not like the defensive play calls and said "i took over the defensive play calls this game" and the Times McD did do that the defense was better for it... This is McD's defense. 

[Pbomb]

10 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

Frazier kept this unit as top 5 for multiple years.

Be careful what you wish for

Look what KC did to Tomlin n Co 

Look what we did to Belicheck.  Does that make them bad coaches?

No, but the 13 second failure makes Frazier a bad one 

[clayboy54]

18 minutes ago, KHAN said:

We ranked #1 in defense because the bend but don't break premise works against bad teams. Eventually they make mistakes. We played a lot of bad offenses this year.

 

Good teams pick it apart. It's not good enough.

I get so tired of the "bad teams" argument.  Look, when you have one of the top teams in the league by a fairly wide margin, most of the other teams can be called "bad" by comparison. This argument just doesn't hold water anymore.

[Niagara Dude]

40 minutes ago, clayboy54 said:

I get so tired of the "bad teams" argument.  Look, when you have one of the top teams in the league by a fairly wide margin, most of the other teams can be called "bad" by comparison. This argument just doesn't hold water anymore.

Not bad teams but playing against teams with average level talent at the QB position,  there is a difference.  

Edited January 26, 2022 by Niagara Dude

[SCBills]

My argument for bringing in new blood at DC:

 

Frazier is 3-3 in the Playoffs with Josh Allen.  

 

In the 3 wins, (Colts, Ravens, Patriots) the defense was a liability against the Rivers-led Colts.  Allen ended up winning WC POW and was just too good that day to lose.  Ravens game, the defense was very good.  Heavy, swirling winds held both offenses down, but Frazier's defense has been historically good against Lamar.  Patriots game, the defense was great.  Pats never stood a chance with Josh Allen and the cold weather, but the defense was very good.  

 

In the 3 losses, (Texans, Chiefs, Chiefs), the defense imploded in the 2nd half of the Houston WC game.  As a result, the offense, led by a young Josh Allen forced it and we all know how that ended.  Chiefs '21, defense was terrible, offense was terrible, we just weren't ready.  Chiefs '22, defense 100% let us down.  That side of the ball was devoted even more resources than the year prior, the Offense was unstoppable, and even after playing like garbage all game, we just had to not beat ourselves in the final 13 seconds.. and we all know how that turned out.  

 

The regular season success, KC Week 5 aside, has typically been against bad teams, bad/young QB's and/or in bad weather.  This past year, we had the #1 statistical defense, yet in our toughest games, the defense did not play as such... TEN, IND, TB.  

 

We play the same type of reactionary defense against good teams.  There needs to be an infusion of more aggressiveness.  That doesn't mean blitzing a Mahomes, but do we ever run stunts, do we ever load up on side and drop a guy on the other side.. anything?  I get that just like with Josh Allen, you're limited in ways to stop him, but constantly playing to keep everything in front instills a soft mentality on your defense where the opposing offense is always the aggressor.  

 

Finally.. We have consistently dedicated high draft picks and money to this defense.  He has had plenty to work with.  What happens when Josh's contract hits and we can't just give him constant high picks and above-average vets all over the place?  

 

The youth movement starts this offseason.  This is as good a time as any to bring in new blood.  

 

He shouldn't be let go because of one end of game mistake... even though it was a biggie.... but for those of us that want him gone, this is about much more than 13 seconds.  

[BuffaloRebound]

2 minutes ago, SCBills said:

My argument for bringing in new blood at DC:

 

Frazier is 3-3 in the Playoffs with Josh Allen.  

 

In the 3 wins, (Colts, Ravens, Patriots) the defense was a liability against the Rivers-led Colts.  Allen ended up winning WC POW and was just too good that day to lose.  Ravens game, the defense was very good.  Heavy, swirling winds held both offenses down, but Frazier's defense has been historically good against Lamar.  Patriots game, the defense was great.  Pats never stood a chance with Josh Allen and the cold weather, but the defense was very good.  

 

In the 3 losses, (Texans, Chiefs, Chiefs), the defense imploded in the 2nd half of the Houston WC game.  As a result, the offense, led by a young Josh Allen forced it and we all know how that ended.  Chiefs '21, defense was terrible, offense was terrible, we just weren't ready.  Chiefs '22, defense 100% let us down.  That side of the ball was devoted even more resources than the year prior, the Offense was unstoppable, and even after playing like garbage all game, we just had to not beat ourselves in the final 13 seconds.. and we all know how that turned out.  

 

The regular season success, KC Week 5 aside, has typically been against bad teams, bad/young QB's and/or in bad weather.  This past year, we had the #1 statistical defense, yet in our toughest games, the defense did not play as such... TEN, IND, TB.  

 

We play the same type of reactionary defense against good teams.  There needs to be an infusion of more aggressiveness.  That doesn't mean blitzing a Mahomes, but do we ever run stunts, do we ever load up on side and drop a guy on the other side.. anything?  I get that just like with Josh Allen, you're limited in ways to stop him, but constantly playing to keep everything in front instills a soft mentality on your defense where the opposing offense is always the aggressor.  

 

Finally.. We have consistently dedicated high draft picks and money to this defense.  He has had plenty to work with.  What happens when Josh's contract hits and we can't just give him constant high picks and above-average vets all over the place?  

 

The youth movement starts this offseason.  This is as good a time as any to bring in new blood.  

 

He shouldn't be let go because of one end of game mistake... even though it was a biggie.... but for those of us that want him gone, this is about much more than 13 seconds.  

Fantastic post.  Required reading.  

[Big Turk]

11 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

Does this mean Daboll possibly is going to take the Miami job?? Also I read the giants are very high on Flores. 

 

Would anyone in their right mind take a job where you go from Allen to Tua and still have to play him twice every year? Highly unlikely he wants that.

[BillsVet]

10 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Their rivals keep doing it though!  The Chiefs had a hole at left tackle this offseason and the Ravens, thinking they had surplus at the position, traded them Orlando Brown leading up to the draft.  The Chiefs ended up with one of the best lines in the league, turning a weakness into a strength.  The Ravens’ line meanwhile ended up a shambles.  

And then Pitt traded them Ingram midseason because Tomlin wanted “volunteers not hostages” and he turned out to be the missing piece for that defense, allowing them to kick Jones inside - that trade helped spark the Chiefs’ late-season defensive turnaround.  They were reeling before then.  Pitt meanwhile proceeds to lose to them in the playoffs.  
 

You’d think their AFC rivals would’ve learned after what the Bills did and would stop making deals with Brett Veach but no - I’m sure he’s already scanning the rosters of the Colts, Dolphins and Browns looking for some cherries to pick…

 

I recall a number of posters here ridiculing KC for losing much of their OL and wondering how they'd recover.  Not long after that weakness indeed became a strength.  Point is, KC doesn't play it safe in personnel nor in-game when the standard becomes being a SB contender.  

 

The AFC is about to get wild and winning the division really doesn't do anything aside from gain entrance to the post-season.  They have to take the next step in 2022, get faster on offense, protect Josh and tweak their schemes on both sides of the ball if necessary to get there.  

[Greg S]

Joe Schoen press conference with the NYC media starts at 11:45. Five minutes from now.

[ArtVandalay]

13 hours ago, Saint Doug said:

Please take Frazier instead of Daboll. Please. I’ll pray to the football gods. 

It's possible they take Frazier and Dorsey.

[SectionC3]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

My argument for bringing in new blood at DC:

 

Frazier is 3-3 in the Playoffs with Josh Allen.  

 

In the 3 wins, (Colts, Ravens, Patriots) the defense was a liability against the Rivers-led Colts.  Allen ended up winning WC POW and was just too good that day to lose.  Ravens game, the defense was very good.  Heavy, swirling winds held both offenses down, but Frazier's defense has been historically good against Lamar.  Patriots game, the defense was great.  Pats never stood a chance with Josh Allen and the cold weather, but the defense was very good.  

 

In the 3 losses, (Texans, Chiefs, Chiefs), the defense imploded in the 2nd half of the Houston WC game.  As a result, the offense, led by a young Josh Allen forced it and we all know how that ended.  Chiefs '21, defense was terrible, offense was terrible, we just weren't ready.  Chiefs '22, defense 100% let us down.  That side of the ball was devoted even more resources than the year prior, the Offense was unstoppable, and even after playing like garbage all game, we just had to not beat ourselves in the final 13 seconds.. and we all know how that turned out.  

 

The regular season success, KC Week 5 aside, has typically been against bad teams, bad/young QB's and/or in bad weather.  This past year, we had the #1 statistical defense, yet in our toughest games, the defense did not play as such... TEN, IND, TB.  

 

We play the same type of reactionary defense against good teams.  There needs to be an infusion of more aggressiveness.  That doesn't mean blitzing a Mahomes, but do we ever run stunts, do we ever load up on side and drop a guy on the other side.. anything?  I get that just like with Josh Allen, you're limited in ways to stop him, but constantly playing to keep everything in front instills a soft mentality on your defense where the opposing offense is always the aggressor.  

 

Finally.. We have consistently dedicated high draft picks and money to this defense.  He has had plenty to work with.  What happens when Josh's contract hits and we can't just give him constant high picks and above-average vets all over the place?  

 

The youth movement starts this offseason.  This is as good a time as any to bring in new blood.  

 

He shouldn't be let go because of one end of game mistake... even though it was a biggie.... but for those of us that want him gone, this is about much more than 13 seconds.  

I’m not on the fire Frazier train, but these are really, really good points. You may have convinced me. 

Just now, SectionC3 said:

I’m not on the fire Frazier train, but these are really, really good points. You may have convinced me. 

 

I’ll add that if McD/Beane feels as you do, we won’t see Frazier moved until after all of the head coaching jobs for which Frazier has interviewed have been filled.  No reason to nuke him before we know whether we can get a couple of bonus picks for his departure. 

[BillsFan4]

I actually think Frazier might do good as a head coach his 2nd time around, especially if he lands in a good spot. I’d like to see him get the opportunity.

[BADOLBILZ]

18 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Their rivals keep doing it though!  The Chiefs had a hole at left tackle this offseason and the Ravens, thinking they had surplus at the position, traded them Orlando Brown leading up to the draft.  The Chiefs ended up with one of the best lines in the league, turning a weakness into a strength.  The Ravens’ line meanwhile ended up a shambles.  

And then Pitt traded them Ingram midseason because Tomlin wanted “volunteers not hostages” and he turned out to be the missing piece for that defense, allowing them to kick Jones inside - that trade helped spark the Chiefs’ late-season defensive turnaround.  They were reeling before then.  Pitt meanwhile proceeds to lose to them in the playoffs.  
 

You’d think their AFC rivals would’ve learned after what the Bills did and would stop making deals with Brett Veach but no - I’m sure he’s already scanning the rosters of the Colts, Dolphins and Browns looking for some cherries to pick…

 

 

Yeah.........and the mistake some Bills fans make is thinking that the Bills are the team in position to improve and the Chiefs will stay status quo so they can be caught.

 

I just saw a 2021 re-draft on TDN..........and while Rousseau went 21st overall in hindsight..........the Chiefs had 2 players that they deemed would have gone in the first in a re-draft.........the two lineman Humphrey(2nd round) and Smith(6th round).     While I generally disagree with interior OL going in round 1,  the point is that they have just as much ability to improve and they have been aggressive and successful in doing so.   

Edited January 26, 2022 by BADOLBILZ

[BADOLBILZ]

11 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

Hey, I'm mostly asking questions that I think shouldn't be overlooked. Circumstances have SO MUCH to do with any given player's success, but especially at the QB position. How things ultimately do turn out for young QBs in the NFL don't necessarily reflect the only way they could have happened.

 

How many highly-regarded prospects could have benefitted from a complete redshirt rookie season and excellent one-on-one coaching, with elite weapons already flourishing in a dynamic scheme waiting for him once he took the field in year two? 

 

So as rookies:

 

Patrick Mahomes as a Bills rookie in 2017 with Sammy Watkins and a strong OL that had just lead the NFL in rushing for two straight seasons supported by a solid veteran defense........a team that would make the playoffs with Tyrod Taylor and without Watkins.............or Josh Allen in 2018 stepping into the worst offensive personnel situation in the entire NFL, HANDS DOWN.......dreadful receivers and a horrific OL.

 

No question Mahomes would have had an easier path.

 

Does Mahomes throw 50 TD's as a rookie?   Probably not.   But does he suck?   Hell no.   Go back and watch Alex Smith with Tyreek Hill,  Travis Kelce and the league's leading rusher Kareem Hunt in the game against the Bills in 2017.    Anemic.

 

Make no mistake that Mahomes has elevated the talent around him from his first start late in 2017 and thereafter.   He needed a redshirt season to succeed like Brady needed to ride the pine for 3 seasons before he was ready to compete in NE.  

 

You are asking a question just for asking sake.............not because it actually makes any real sense.  

[Coach Tuesday]

55 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah.........and the mistake some Bills fans make is thinking that the Bills are the team in position to improve and the Chiefs will stay status quo so they can be caught.

 

I just saw a 2021 re-draft on TDN..........and while Rousseau went 21st overall in hindsight..........the Colts had 2 players that they deemed would have gone in the first in a re-draft.........the two lineman Humphrey(2nd round) and Smith(6th round).     While I generally disagree with interior OL going in round 1,  the point is that they have just as much ability to improve and they have been aggressive and successful in doing so.   

Not just “some fans.”  The FO has basically admitted they focused last offseason on stopping the Chiefs, specifically, which helps explain among other things the second round pick on Basham (because protection and pressure became an issue for KC in the Super Bowl) - as if it didn’t occur to the FO that perhaps the Chiefs would improve their o-line to the point where it would be more important to outscore them or cover their fast guys.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Coach Tuesday

[Hapless Bills Fan]

43 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

So as rookies:

 

Patrick Mahomes as a Bills rookie in 2017 with Sammy Watkins and a strong OL that had just lead the NFL in rushing for two straight seasons supported by a solid veteran defense........a team that would make the playoffs with Tyrod Taylor and without Watkins.............or Josh Allen in 2018 stepping into the worst offensive personnel situation in the entire NFL, HANDS DOWN.......dreadful receivers and a horrific OL.

 

No question Mahomes would have had an easier path.

 

Does Mahomes throw 50 TD's as a rookie?   Probably not.   But does he suck?   Hell no.   Go back and watch Alex Smith with Tyreek Hill,  Travis Kelce and the league's leading rusher Kareem Hunt in the game against the Bills in 2017.    Anemic.

 

Make no mistake that Mahomes has elevated the talent around him from his first start late in 2017 and thereafter.   He needed a redshirt season to succeed like Brady needed to ride the pine for 3 seasons before he was ready to compete in NE.  

 

You are asking a question just for asking sake.............not because it actually makes any real sense.  

 

This question has come up before and been ridiculed by you as a substitute for legitimate counter argument.

The following points were made by myself and others:

1. The Chiefs "anemic" offense with Alex Smith in 2017 was #5 for yards, #6 for points, and tied for #4 in pass Y/A.  Smith was #8 for passing yards and led the league in passer rating.  26-27 other teams would have been happy to have such a case of anemia

2. Several Chiefs players have gone on record saying that Mahomes was not 'all that and a bag of chips' his rookie season (I think the word used was actually "sucked") and that he looked like a different player when he came to training camp in 2018...so there is some evidence that yes, in fact, he did benefit from a season on the bench

 

Now, you can disagree and that's fine, you have a right to your opinion, but let's not pretend that there's no evidence to support a different viewpoint.

 

[finn]

3 hours ago, KHAN said:

We ranked #1 in defense because the bend but don't break premise works against bad teams. Eventually they make mistakes. We played a lot of bad offenses this year.

 

Good teams pick it apart. It's not good enough.

A corollary is the almost-but-not-quite-there pass rush. 

[Helpmenow]

For show only. Frazier will be back

[berg1029]

23 minutes ago, Helpmenow said:

For show only. Frazier will be back

Agreed.  They have been working together for a long time and have a connection.  It's a little tip of the hat from Schoen to Frazier, even though both know he isn't going to get hired as the HC. 

 

With that being said, Frazier is a good culture guy.  He obviously isn't the greatest tactician, but you could do a lot worse than Frazier for a team looking to get things turned around.  Is he the guy I would want for a super bowl run to be in charge?  No, probably not.  But do I think he would be a god-awful HC for a team (like the Giants) looking to build some culture and rebuild?  No.

 

Regardless of how good/bad of a hire he would actually be, he won't be hired this year for sure.  💯