Should the Bills extend Edmunds?

[LABILLBACKER]

13 minutes ago, Billy Zabka said:

The most hilarious excuse from the Edmunds apologists is that Mcdermott doesn't want Edmunds to make big plays because his defense isn't designed for it. Even though Edmunds plays the Luke Keuchly position who made big play after big play back in the day for Carolina.

 

It's actually kinda sad and pathetic how McD hangs on to the idea that Edmunds will ever be a fraction of Keuckly. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

43 minutes ago, Billy Zabka said:

The most hilarious excuse from the Edmunds apologists is that Mcdermott doesn't want Edmunds to make big plays because his defense isn't designed for it. Even though Edmunds plays the Luke Keuchly position who made big play after big play back in the day for Carolina.

 

Whatever, it’s clear this board just wants someone to complain about.
 

Doesn’t matter what positive stats or examples are provided that suggest maybe our TWENTYTHREE year old MLB can still develop and is worth hanging on to. Crazy to suggest he actually isn’t a bad player. 

I think Matt Milano would make a better Mike, Edmunds could excel in the Lorenzo Alexander role. It’ll be interesting to see if it happens.

 

 

✌️ 

[gonzo1105]

The Answer to this question is no. As a matter of fact, I would attempt to trade him this off-season before he becomes a Free Agent. That’s my opinion. I feel we would get multiple picks for him prob a 2nd and a mid rounder 

[Billz4ever]

I just don't see the hype around him.  Yes, he's fast and has sideline to sideline speed and yes, he makes a lot of tackles.  The problem is that most of the tackles I see him make are downfield on a RB or on a WR/TE downfield after a catch is made.  Is that what we pay top dollar for a Middle Linebacker to do?  I don't think he's very good in pass coverage and he's not a good run stuffing MLB that can shoot the gap or quickly fill the hole and stuff run plays.

 

He's really one of those guys that's above average at a lot of things, but not great/standout at any of them.  On the plus side, he's still young so if he stays healthy, he has a lot of football left to play.  Depending on what we could get for him, I'd be open for a trade.  

[JaCrispy]

16 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

The Answer to this question is no. As a matter of fact, I would attempt to trade him this off-season before he becomes a Free Agent. That’s my opinion. I feel we would get multiple picks for him prob a 2nd and a mid rounder 

Yup, totally agree with this... I don’t ever think our D will truly be elite with Edmunds as the field General...

 

Unfortunately, as long as Frazier is here, I think we are stuck with a mediocre player leading our defense...

 

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by JaCrispy

[billsfan714]

5 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Here’s a fun exercise.

 

Go to Pro Football Reference, search up names of top LBs this year. 
 

Go to advanced game logs for 2021, note it has how many times a LB was targeted in coverage, what the completions and percentage were. Go look at all the LBs you’d rather have over Edmunds. Look at their missed tackle percentage. 
 

Now go look up Edmunds. His numbers are rock solid. Completion percentage against him is respectable, and his targets are low. Read that again, go double check the numbers. His targets are low. They should be sky high, triple digits. QBs don’t challenge him much. Why?

 

Why? Because he’s steady and consistent. He defends a respectable amount of passes (this was actually his worst statistical year in coverage) and he misses a low percentage of tackles. 
 

I think I understand what the coaches absolutely love about this kid. He’s a great leader, great field communicator, and he’s consistently steady (even though fans want splashy). 
 

Fun side note, after go check Matt Milano’s numbers. Dude is an elite coverage LB which also plays into why Edmunds doesn’t always pass the eye test.

You know, I went to profootball reference and compared him to Darius Leonard, who was drafted after him, This is what I found.

Solo tackles   Leonard 343  Edmunds 293

Ast Tackles Leonard 195 Edmunds 170

QB hits Leonard 20 Edmunds 15

Tackles for Loss Leonard 30 Edmunds 26

Sacks Leonard 15.5 Edmunds 5.5

Forced Fumbles Leonard 17 Edmunds 2

Fumble recoveries Leonard 7 Edmunds goose egg 0

Interceptions Leonard 11 Edmunds 4

 

And Leonard has played in 3 fewer games.

 

 

[3rdand12]

1 hour ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Whatever, it’s clear this board just wants someone to complain about.
 

Doesn’t matter what positive stats or examples are provided that suggest maybe our TWENTYTHREE year old MLB can still develop and is worth hanging on to. Crazy to suggest he actually isn’t a bad player. 

I think Matt Milano would make a better Mike, Edmunds could excel in the Lorenzo Alexander role. It’ll be interesting to see if it happens.

 

 

✌️

No, Lorax as intuitive a player as we have had in Bills Uni
Opposite of Edmunds play
and Milano is speed with ball awareness. not the all around guy. Almost Safety . Excellent nickle LB though

 I voted trade. ( and I really like the Kid ) He started to play downhill last few weeks of season (coaches call likely)
 But he is highly valued by his peers, and not so much by us Bills fans or in this scheme Frazier ran last few years

 

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, Billy Zabka said:

The most hilarious excuse from the Edmunds apologists is that Mcdermott doesn't want Edmunds to make big plays because his defense isn't designed for it. Even though Edmunds plays the Luke Keuchly position who made big play after big play back in the day for Carolina.

 

 

 

The most hilarious attack on Edmunds from his haters is ... well, all of it, really.

 

But if I had to pick one thing, it would be how the haters all think they're way smarter and know more than McDermott and everyone who sees the game plans, is in the locker room, sees the practices. They all love the guy, but the haters think they're way smarter.

 

Hint: they're not.

 

 

[Sierra Foothills]

1 hour ago, billsfan714 said:

You know, I went to profootball reference and compared him to Darius Leonard, who was drafted after him, This is what I found.

Solo tackles   Leonard 343  Edmunds 293

Ast Tackles Leonard 195 Edmunds 170

QB hits Leonard 20 Edmunds 15

Tackles for Loss Leonard 30 Edmunds 26

Sacks Leonard 15.5 Edmunds 5.5

Forced Fumbles Leonard 17 Edmunds 2

Fumble recoveries Leonard 7 Edmunds goose egg 0

Interceptions Leonard 11 Edmunds 4

 

And Leonard has played in 3 fewer games.

 

 

 

Fred Warner was also taken after Edmunds and is obviously the much better player.

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

I'm hoping Tremaine proves everyone wrong but it was another mediocre season from him imo, the tackles are there but he doesn't get to the QB, doesn't do well in coverage, get's eaten up on run plays and the missed tackles are still happening game in and game out. I'm hoping he has a monster season but if it hasn't happened already in year 4 it's hard to believe he catches on in year 5 but we'll see, if not I truly hope we move on and select another ILB either in the draft or FA.

[NastyNateSoldiers]

On 1/25/2022 at 4:27 PM, Victory Formation said:

Was there ever a player more polarizing on this Bills roster than Edmund has been in the last 2-3 years? I have a love hate relationship with him. On one hand I love him as a coverage guy, he truly flashes elite potential there but I am absolutely sick and tired of this guy shooting the wrong gaps. Is his lack of production there simply a product of a really soft McD/Leslie Frazier defense? I mean, how can he shoot any gaps when our coaches have him 20 yds off the ball?

 

Ultimately I like Edmunds at a price. I do think we should keep him at say $10M-$11M. Give him a contract in the neighborhood of what Milano got and I’m happy with it. Anything more than that then they should just trade him and at least get something for him. 
 

What are your thoughts Bills fans? Should we extend him? Trade him? Or let him walk?

I voted to trade him but If that wasn’t available I’d say cut him outright or move him to his natural position of Outside linebacker. Edmunds just not a good MLB and he’ll never be elite ever! To be honest I loved him coming out the draft but wasn’t happy when they moved him to MLB . Edmunds will eventually leave the Bills and go to a team that will use him correctly. 

[Toyo321]

3 hours ago, billsfan714 said:

You know, I went to profootball reference and compared him to Darius Leonard, who was drafted after him, This is what I found.

Solo tackles   Leonard 343  Edmunds 293

Ast Tackles Leonard 195 Edmunds 170

QB hits Leonard 20 Edmunds 15

Tackles for Loss Leonard 30 Edmunds 26

Sacks Leonard 15.5 Edmunds 5.5

Forced Fumbles Leonard 17 Edmunds 2

Fumble recoveries Leonard 7 Edmunds goose egg 0

Interceptions Leonard 11 Edmunds 4

 

And Leonard has played in 3 fewer games.

 

 

That is why he is not worth signing again.  He really needs to be traded or given his walking papers, he is not the LB that this team needs to fix the running and short underneath passing protection that we suffer at stopping on D.  Just not worth big money IMO.  There are better options out there.

[Billy Zabka]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

The most hilarious attack on Edmunds from his haters is ... well, all of it, really.

 

But if I had to pick one thing, it would be how the haters all think they're way smarter and know more than McDermott and everyone who sees the game plans, is in the locker room, sees the practices. They all love the guy, but the haters think they're way smarter.

 

Hint: they're not.

 

 

 

Lmao...your argument is ridiculous. Nobody thinks they are smarter than Mcdermott or Beane or the coaching staff when it comes to football.  I guess I can't have an opinion on any Bills player. By your logic you can't criticize any Bill or want to improve at a position because you are a hater and think you are smarter than the Bills.  How dare you think Cody Ford was a bad pick, you think you know more than Beane. You want to bring in a new punter next year, well McDermott thought Haack was just fine, you think you know more than he does. 

 

 

 

I 

[LABILLBACKER]

4 hours ago, billsfan714 said:

You know, I went to profootball reference and compared him to Darius Leonard, who was drafted after him, This is what I found.

Solo tackles   Leonard 343  Edmunds 293

Ast Tackles Leonard 195 Edmunds 170

QB hits Leonard 20 Edmunds 15

Tackles for Loss Leonard 30 Edmunds 26

Sacks Leonard 15.5 Edmunds 5.5

Forced Fumbles Leonard 17 Edmunds 2

Fumble recoveries Leonard 7 Edmunds goose egg 0

Interceptions Leonard 11 Edmunds 4

 

And Leonard has played in 3 fewer games.

 

 

.....oh but he's young.....he's just doing what he's told....instincts are overrated....yada yada....the entire league knows how to exploit him. We'd be lucky to get a 3rd for him. Can't believe we're paying him 12.7 this upcoming season. Such a waste.

[Governor]

Hopefully Edmunds is gone after we fire Frazier in a few weeks when the HC jobs are all filled. A 2nd round pick via trade would be wonderful. 

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, Billy Zabka said:

 

Lmao...your argument is ridiculous. Nobody thinks they are smarter than Mcdermott or Beane or the coaching staff when it comes to football.  I guess I can't have an opinion on any Bills player. By your logic you can't criticize any Bill or want to improve at a position because you are a hater and think you are smarter than the Bills.  How dare you think Cody Ford was a bad pick, you think you know more than Beane. You want to bring in a new punter next year, well McDermott thought Haack was just fine, you think you know more than he does. 

 

 

 

Kid yourself if you must, but that is what you're doing. It's wildly clear that his haters do indeed think they're way smarter than McDermott and everyone in the locker room and. They don't want to put it in those words, but they do.

 

And what you're saying is "by my logic," um, well, it's not. In fact, it That's not my logic, nor really any kind of logic of any sort. It's just a desperate and unsuccessful attempt on your part to compare the way those guys have been treated by McDermott.  In fact, it's your extremely pathetic attempt at a straw man argument.

 

Tell me, was Cody Ford a captain? Three years in a row? A two-time Pro Bowler? I didn't really keep track ... did anyone name Haack the NFL STs rookie of the month the way they named Tremaine the NFL Defensive Rookie of the Month? Was Haack the NFL STs Player of the Week this year, or was Cody Ford the NFL Offensive Player of the Week this year the way that Edmunds was the NFL Defensive Player of the week this year?

 

Did they exercise Haack's fifth-year option for $12.716M? Wait, that's not fair, since they couldn't. Did they contract with Haack to guarantee him $12.716M? Cody Ford?

 

Just quick remind me, did any of those happen? Precisely. Of course they didn't. Again, you can kid yourself, but there's no comparison with how they've treated Tremaine to how they have treated Ford and Haack.

 

The Bills love this guy. There's a weird group of folks out there who hate him. Which is pretty bent, but whatever. But they think that the guy sucks and that the Bills would be better without him, which is the opposite of what McDermott thinks, what Beane thinks, what everyone at TBD thinks, and what people around the league thinks. This sad group thinks they're smarter.

 

Again, they really aren't. Doesn't stop them from doing a lot of talking, though.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, Governor said:

Hopefully Edmunds is gone after we fire Frazier in a few weeks when the HC jobs are all filled. A 2nd round pick via trade would be wonderful. 

 

 

 

Thanks for serving as an excellent example of the type of opinions held by Edmunds haters. Great job.

[Laughing Coffin]

I unfortunately doubt we trade Edmunds in his option year.  I wish we would, I really do.  Trade for 2022 and 2023 picks, get a new MLB.  We need to get cheaper there, he hasn't improved since his rookie season, he's the same player that lacks instincts as a MLB.

 

He can have all the length in the world, but how does AJ Klein have 1 more pass defended in 2021 in ~ 650 less snaps?  Edmunds is simply not worth 8 figures a year, no shot.

[vincec]

On 1/25/2022 at 6:52 PM, LABILLBACKER said:

If anyone offered a 2nd round pick for him I would do it in a heartbeat. The only other option in my eyes is pay him 9M and tell him he's moving to the outside.

I'm so tired of safe bend don't break defenses. We've witnessed them throughout Bills history. Let Frazier walk and sign Fangio. Stick Tremaine outside where he's belonged since day 1 and let your defense be more aggressive. 

I keep seeing this but I don’t follow the logic at all. The Bills play with one OLB almost all the time- Milano. So are you saying:

 

a) Move Milano to the bench and play Edmunds instead, find a new MLB?

b) Keep Milano at OLB, move Edmunds to the bench but pay him $9mm per year to be a backup/role player?

c) Change their defense to be a base 4-3 and not 4-2 nickel?
d) Switch Milano and Edmunds so that Milano, who is thriving at OLB, has to learn a new position to try and benefit a marginal player?

[Billy Zabka]

7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Kid yourself if you must, but that is what you're doing. It's wildly clear that his haters do indeed think they're way smarter than McDermott and everyone in the locker room and. They don't want to put it in those words, but they do.

 

And what you're saying is "by my logic," um, well, it's not. In fact, it That's not my logic, nor really any kind of logic of any sort. It's just a desperate and unsuccessful attempt on your part to compare the way those guys have been treated by McDermott.  In fact, it's your extremely pathetic attempt at a straw man argument.

 

Tell me, was Cody Ford a captain? Three years in a row? A two-time Pro Bowler? I didn't really keep track ... did anyone name Haack the NFL STs rookie of the month the way they named Tremaine the NFL Defensive Rookie of the Month? Was Haack the NFL STs Player of the Week this year, or was Cody Ford the NFL Offensive Player of the Week this year the way that Edmunds was the NFL Defensive Player of the week this year?

 

Did they exercise Haack's fifth-year option for $12.716M? Wait, that's not fair, since they couldn't. Did they contract with Haack to guarantee him $12.716M? Cody Ford?

 

Just quick remind me, did any of those happen? Precisely. Of course they didn't. Again, you can kid yourself, but there's no comparison with how they've treated Tremaine to how they have treated Ford and Haack.

 

The Bills love this guy. There's a weird group of folks out there who hate him. Which is pretty bent, but whatever. But they think that the guy sucks and that the Bills would be better without him, which is the opposite of what McDermott thinks, what Beane thinks, what everyone at TBD thinks, and what people around the league thinks. This sad group thinks they're smarter.

 

Again, they really aren't. Doesn't stop them from doing a lot of talking, though.

 

First of all the term hater is ridiculous and anyone that uses it sounds childish and moronic.  I don't hate Edmunds, I think he's a good guy personally, thats hard working and a good leader.  I just happen to think he's a MLB that is too flawed in certain areas to want to resign him to a long big money deal.  

 

His advanced statistics, his pff grades, and his lack of big plays lend credence to my arguments but I forgot I can't have a different opinion on a player than you because that means I think Im smarter at football than Sean McDermott.

 

I guess we will see if he gets that lucrative long term extension that you seem to think is inevitable. I'm not convinced its forthcoming unless we see some improvement next year.

 

Lastly If I think McDermott should have squibbed kicked or kicked it high and short and then not gone into a super loose prevent against KC...does that make me a "hater" who thinks he knows more about football than Sean McDermott?  

 

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Billy Zabka