Should the Bills extend Edmunds?

[T master]

I would try to keep him but what he thinks he's worth as a 1st round pick is probably a lot different than what his production has made him look to be worth I would like to see him on the position he played in college i think MLB is to much for him & he's having to think to much rather than just play which could be in part why he;s not playing up to his billing .

 

I hope Beane has already approached him & his agent to see what they are looking to get in the way of a contract just being a 1st rounder i think he may not stick just because of the cash expected .

[oldmanfan]

The stuff about Edmunds is ridiculously silly at times.  People keep saying he’s a bad MLB or that he should be moved to OLB.  Read this carefully:

 

We play two LBs.  For someone to be a MLB, he has to be between two other LBs.  Anyone ever take high school geometry?  Milano and Edmunds play our two LB spots, they both have responsibilities in the run and pass game, and Edmonds in particular has a lot of pass protection responsibility in the middle of the field.  If you want a MLB like Butkus or Lewis, then yell at McD to go to a 4-3 or 3-4.  

 

Edmunds has room to improve.  His diagnosis of plays is still not what it should be.  But you also have to ask what he is being asked to do in the defense, and how much the defensive plan affects his play.  You keep him for another year, and hopefully Frazier and McD realize they have to be more aggressive.  I’d like to see them encourage Edmunds to be more aggressive and play downhill more.

[No_Matter_What]

I just saw walterfootball.com mock draft. They have us taking LB Damone Clark, LSU with the following comment:

 

"The Bills must improve at defending the middle of the field. Tremaine Edmunds has been a huge bust as a former first-round pick. Damone Clark could be the next great LSU linebacker with his size and speed."

 

I find it interesting since I don't remember reading anything remotely negative about Edmunds from anyone outside TBD.

 

https://walterfootball.com/draft2022_1.php

 

[DrDawkinstein]

14 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

The stuff about Edmunds is ridiculously silly at times.  People keep saying he’s a bad MLB or that he should be moved to OLB.  Read this carefully:

 

We play two LBs.  For someone to be a MLB, he has to be between two other LBs.  Anyone ever take high school geometry?  Milano and Edmunds play our two LB spots, they both have responsibilities in the run and pass game, and Edmonds in particular has a lot of pass protection responsibility in the middle of the field.  If you want a MLB like Butkus or Lewis, then yell at McD to go to a 4-3 or 3-4.  

 

Edmunds has room to improve.  His diagnosis of plays is still not what it should be.  But you also have to ask what he is being asked to do in the defense, and how much the defensive plan affects his play.  You keep him for another year, and hopefully Frazier and McD realize they have to be more aggressive.  I’d like to see them encourage Edmunds to be more aggressive and play downhill more.

 

How about we ask him to make a simple tackle? How about diagnosing the run play and hitting the proper gap instead of getting caught in the wash? How about making a play in the passing game, since that is supposedly where his value comes in with all that length and athleticism?

 

Unless you think our scheme is asking our MLB to bounce off of RBs, over-persue and over-commit, be outrun on coverage, and generally just be ineffective.

 

The kid just doesnt have the instincts or awareness to make the most basic of plays, regardless of what is being asked of him in the scheme.

 

Call me a hater, I dont care. Calling me a name doesnt change the fact that Edmunds STINKS.

[BFLO]

Edmunds reminds me of former Buffalo Sabre Rasmus Ristolainen. 

 

Big freak of an athlete. All the elite physical tools to be a hall of famer, but no tool box. He thinks the game in slow motion, is always 1 or 2 steps behind the play, rather than 1 step ahead. Even the few times he's in position to make a big TFL or stop a guy short he usually wiffs on the tackle. 

 

I guess the real question is, are there better players out there and available? He's made 2 pro-bowls, seems like the talent level at this position is severely lacking league wide. But would the team be better off plugging in "just a guy" where Edmunds usually is? Would we even notice a difference? 

Edited February 3, 2022 by BFLO

[Brand J]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

How about we ask him to make a simple tackle? How about diagnosing the run play and hitting the proper gap instead of getting caught in the wash? How about making a play in the passing game, since that is supposedly where his value comes in with all that length and athleticism?

 

Unless you think our scheme is asking our MLB to bounce off of RBs, over-persue and over-commit, be outrun on coverage, and generally just be ineffective.

 

The kid just doesnt have the instincts or awareness to make the most basic of plays, regardless of what is being asked of him in the scheme.

 

Call me a hater, I dont care. Calling me a name doesnt change the fact that Edmunds STINKS.

I remember London Fletcher said playing MLB is a lot like playing RB in terms of knowing where and when to hit the correct hole. Go back and look at that 20 yard run by CEH in the championship game. My god, Edmunds just runs into the mess of bodies in front of him, rather than moving to the right of the pile and stopping the RB before the run ever got started. I honestly don’t know what he was expecting to stop by running into the backs of his teammates and I don’t care if that’s where his “assignment” sent him (like I’m sure his defenders will say.) He has absolutely no field awareness and those who think Beane is keen to extend him, go back and watch that presser, doesn’t sound like a GM who is sold on the player.

Edited February 3, 2022 by JayBaller10

[NastyNateSoldiers]

19 hours ago, Billy Zabka said:

 

Lmao...your argument is ridiculous. Nobody thinks they are smarter than Mcdermott or Beane or the coaching staff when it comes to football.  I guess I can't have an opinion on any Bills player. By your logic you can't criticize any Bill or want to improve at a position because you are a hater and think you are smarter than the Bills.  How dare you think Cody Ford was a bad pick, you think you know more than Beane. You want to bring in a new punter next year, well McDermott thought Haack was just fine, you think you know more than he does. 

 

 

 

I 

Absolutely. McD loves Edmunds because he’s his voice on the field . He gets everyone lined up correctly and makes the right checks and audibles defensively. Coaches love players like Edmunds because they can count on them . But there’s a catch Edmunds seems to only really be good at the mental part of his game because otherwise he doesn’t make game changing plays and he’s always getting picked on by elite teams. I say trade him let him go somewhere where they’ll use him in his more natural position. 

8 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

The stuff about Edmunds is ridiculously silly at times.  People keep saying he’s a bad MLB or that he should be moved to OLB.  Read this carefully:

 

We play two LBs.  For someone to be a MLB, he has to be between two other LBs.  Anyone ever take high school geometry?  Milano and Edmunds play our two LB spots, they both have responsibilities in the run and pass game, and Edmonds in particular has a lot of pass protection responsibility in the middle of the field.  If you want a MLB like Butkus or Lewis, then yell at McD to go to a 4-3 or 3-4.  

 

Edmunds has room to improve.  His diagnosis of plays is still not what it should be.  But you also have to ask what he is being asked to do in the defense, and how much the defensive plan affects his play.  You keep him for another year, and hopefully Frazier and McD realize they have to be more aggressive.  I’d like to see them encourage Edmunds to be more aggressive and play downhill more.

Not necessarily true he doesn’t need to be in the middle of 2 lbers to be a middle lber that’s ridiculous. Where he lines up is what makes him a MLB and that’s dead center of the field.

[oldmanfan]

11 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Absolutely. McD loves Edmunds because he’s his voice on the field . He gets everyone lined up correctly and makes the right checks and audibles defensively. Coaches love players like Edmunds because they can count on them . But there’s a catch Edmunds seems to only really be good at the mental part of his game because otherwise he doesn’t make game changing plays and he’s always getting picked on by elite teams. I say trade him let him go somewhere where they’ll use him in his more natural position. 

Not necessarily true he doesn’t need to be in the middle of 2 lbers to be a middle lber that’s ridiculous. Where he lines up is what makes him a MLB and that’s dead center of the field.

Sometimes.  Sometimes he doesn’t.  And regardless of people trying to make him into a Butkus that simply is not the style defense the Bills play.  And as I said earlier he still needs to work in reading plays.

[NastyNateSoldiers]

7 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Sometimes.  Sometimes he doesn’t.  And regardless of people trying to make him into a Butkus that simply is not the style defense the Bills play.  And as I said earlier he still needs to work in reading plays.

He doesn’t have awareness or instincts for the middle linebacker position. That’s why he’ll never be good MLB.

[oldmanfan]

4 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

He doesn’t have awareness or instincts for the middle linebacker position. That’s why he’ll never be good MLB.

He is not a MLB in the way you want.  You can continue saying the sky is purple but it doesn’t make it so.

 

If they think they can find someone better they’ll move on.  If not, they won’t.

[Thrivefourfive]

Absolutely hate the proposal of ‘just move him outside..’ Why? So he can suck there too?! That is not a solution on an NFL roster. Makes no sense at all to me. 

[Old Coot]

I'm not an Edmunds homie -- I think he has room for improvement on running plays.

 

The most common D the Bills play (as has been pointed out in outher posts) is not a 4-3.  It's a nickle 4-2 with 5 DB's.  There is no typical MLB.  Edmunds' assignment is to clog up the middle of the field passing lanes so throws go elsewhere.  That's one reason he doesn't appear to make many plays in the passing game.

 

Edwards also has good lateral movement enabling him to make plays all over the field.  This & his pass coverage skills enable out safties to do things they otherwise could not do.

 

It is worth noting that during the 13 sec, the Bills did not have Edmunds in the center of the field.  He was on the side of the formation opposite to the play.  On Kelce's catch, Milano appears to have had center coverage responsibility.

 

For purposes of discussion Pro Football Reference has the following stats for Edmunds & Milano:

 

Edmunds numbers are in the is in the first column:

 

Combined tackles: 108   86

Solo tackles             70    57

Assists                      38    29

Tackles for loss         7       15

 

[vincec]

41 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea… he was real brief when asked about Edmunds contract suggesting it’s not a priority and will be kicked down the road….didn’t exactly inspire a whole lot of confidence so not sure why many expect an extension to automatically take place. 

He basically said the best thing about him is that he communicates the calls well with and understands what he’s doing. Pretty lukewarm.

[NastyNateSoldiers]

Explosive plays are made all over the field not just in the backfield . I don’t care where Edmunds is lined up he seems allergic to making those plays.

[NastyNateSoldiers]

On 1/25/2022 at 7:50 PM, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

This isn’t a hot take pal. I’ve watched these guys for years. Milano is a very AVERAGE linebacker. People are distorted is how they see he and Tremaine because of how they were drafted. 
 

Just look for big plays that lose Bills playoff games and you’ll see plenty of 58. 

U might have something here the only time we beat the Chiefs is when Milano was out and we were forced into using Siran Neal and more Dime defense. Neal played a huge role in that week 5 game . His speed made a huge difference and I was hoping we seen a lot more of Neal in the divisional game . 

[Billy Zabka]

Edmunds shows flashes, puts a good run of 3 or 4 games together and you think man this guy has finally figured it out, but then he regresses back again. You knew there would be growing pains with him being so young and playing a new position from college, but I think we know what he is most likely gonna be at this point...a great athlete but not a great MLB, maybe not even a good one.

Edited February 4, 2022 by Billy Zabka

[LABILLBACKER]

18 hours ago, vincec said:

I keep seeing this but I don’t follow the logic at all. The Bills play with one OLB almost all the time- Milano. So are you saying:

 

a) Move Milano to the bench and play Edmunds instead, find a new MLB?

b) Keep Milano at OLB, move Edmunds to the bench but pay him $9mm per year to be a backup/role player?

c) Change their defense to be a base 4-3 and not 4-2 nickel?
d) Switch Milano and Edmunds so that Milano, who is thriving at OLB, has to learn a new position to try and benefit a marginal player?

That would be (c)

Go back to a true 4-3. Let Klein play the Mike and put Milano and Edmunds on the outside.  Tremaine 's basically a glorified  zone DB anyway. I know Frazier/McD are obsessed with their 4-2-5 but when you play a run heavy offense like Tenn. or Indy you're forced to go 4-3.  I think it's all moot anyway because they're not paying TE 13M after next season. They go in another direction. 

[ComradeKayAdams]

On 2/2/2022 at 8:14 PM, billsfan714 said:

You know, I went to profootball reference and compared him to Darius Leonard, who was drafted after him, This is what I found.

Solo tackles   Leonard 343  Edmunds 293

Ast Tackles Leonard 195 Edmunds 170

QB hits Leonard 20 Edmunds 15

Tackles for Loss Leonard 30 Edmunds 26

Sacks Leonard 15.5 Edmunds 5.5

Forced Fumbles Leonard 17 Edmunds 2

Fumble recoveries Leonard 7 Edmunds goose egg 0

Interceptions Leonard 11 Edmunds 4

 

And Leonard has played in 3 fewer games.

 

You do realize that you are comparing Edmunds to arguably the best ILB in the league…who is at a career production pace consistent with a first-ballot Hall of Famer, correct? Furthermore, you realize that Darius Leonard during his rookie year was the same age that Tremaine Edmunds is NOW? Furthermore, you realize that the Colts play a noticeably different defensive system with different MLB responsibilities than Leslie Frazier’s?

 

A more appropriate statistical comparison would be Carolina’s Luke Kuechly, who happened to have had a first-ballot Hall of Fame career.

 

For fun, let’s do a basic career statistical comparison of all three LB’s. Here are their season statistical averages (projected for a full 17-game season and rounded to the nearest whole numbers) for 10 basic statistical categories plus 1 team stat. The order is Edmunds’ followed by Kuechly’s followed by Leonard’s:

 

Combined tackles: 129, 157, 158

Solo tackles: 82, 99, 101

Assisted tackles: 47, 58, 57

Tackles for losses: 7, 11, 9

QB hits: 4, 4, 6

Sacks: 2, 2, 4

Forced fumbles: 1, 1, 5

Fumble recoveries: 0, 1, 2

Interceptions: 1, 3, 3

Passes defended: 8, 10, 9

Team’s defensive unit ranking (in yards allowed per game): 5, 12, 13

 

Keep in mind here that these individual statistical averages are comparatively higher for Kuechly versus Edmunds partly because they include Kuechly’s peak athletic years during his middle 20’s. Also keep in mind that Kuechly’s numbers are comparatively lower to Leonard’s partly for the same averaging-out reason (as well as the different defensive systems in which they played).

 

CONCLUSION: You know what? No, I’m not going to do this. Here are the stats. The haters are free to draw whatever conclusions they want. I’ve already determined for myself (which incorporates X’s and O’s analyses from people whose opinions I respect…think: Greg Cosell types) that Edmunds is a top 20 NFL LB and still has potential to be much more. Many of you probably gave up on Josh Allen when he was 23 years old, but I’m not going to do that to Tremaine. I’m more than happy to have him as a Buffalo Bill for at least 1 more year. He’ll have every opportunity to establish his true second contract market value next offseason.

[papazoid]

21 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

How about we ask him to make a simple tackle? How about diagnosing the run play and hitting the proper gap instead of getting caught in the wash? How about making a play in the passing game, since that is supposedly where his value comes in with all that length and athleticism?

 

Unless you think our scheme is asking our MLB to bounce off of RBs, over-persue and over-commit, be outrun on coverage, and generally just be ineffective.

 

The kid just doesnt have the instincts or awareness to make the most basic of plays, regardless of what is being asked of him in the scheme.

 

Call me a hater, I dont care. Calling me a name doesnt change the fact that Edmunds STINKS.

 

 

boom

[LABILLBACKER]

22 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

How about we ask him to make a simple tackle? How about diagnosing the run play and hitting the proper gap instead of getting caught in the wash? How about making a play in the passing game, since that is supposedly where his value comes in with all that length and athleticism?

 

Unless you think our scheme is asking our MLB to bounce off of RBs, over-persue and over-commit, be outrun on coverage, and generally just be ineffective.

 

The kid just doesnt have the instincts or awareness to make the most basic of plays, regardless of what is being asked of him in the scheme.

 

Call me a hater, I dont care. Calling me a name doesnt change the fact that Edmunds STINKS.

Thank you for perfectly articulating every single obvious flaw Tremaine has. Now all I need you to do is explain the insanity of why there's still so many blind Edmunds apologists? Does he have that many relatives?