All_Pro_Bills Posted January 25, 2022 Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) Jerry's just repeating what most of us here already concluded. The kick-off through the end zone and the defensive alignment in the last 13 seconds were completely incorrect decisions and pretty much the exact opposite of what you should do in that situation. If they would have somehow survived these bad decisions we wouldn't be talking about it here. But results matter and failure requires an examination. The fact that every loss for this team with the exception of one game during the season was a one-score affair might lead us to conclude we need to carefully examine the decision process of the coaching staff that might have reversed the outcome if they would have done one or two little things a bit different. Its wild speculation on my part but outside of the Colts game with a little tweak here and there or a little different play call or coaching decision this team might have been 16-1. Of course that requires that everything went right all the time which doesn't happen that often. And I'm not suggesting we need perfection when it comes to our coaches. Everybody makes mistakes. The issue is how big they are. I wouldn't call it choke more than I'd say it was simply the incorrect strategy and decisions given the situation. What I believe McDermott and Frazier failed to account for most in their decision was the fact the Chiefs had their 3 time outs. If they would have had zero or one time out left then it might have made more sense. That to me is the failure. Failure to factor in the time outs into the decision, failure to account for the fact the sidelines meant nothing to the Chiefs in how they'd play the final 13 seconds of the game. Just bad judgment and thinking based on the situation they faced. And they had plenty of time to run through the thought process between the Bills score and the kick off over a long commercial break in the game. So not enough time to think it through can't be an excuse. As what's done is done I'm over it but I can't forget it. The critical question that everybody needs to ask is are you concerned they'll do it again in a different situation under different circumstances in the future when the game or the playoffs or perhaps even the Super Bowl is on the line? And if you think they will and you want to avoid that critical error then what do you do about it now to prevent it from screwing the team and the fans? Edited January 25, 2022 by All_Pro_Bills 1 4 3 Quote
Mark80 Posted January 25, 2022 Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Greg S said: If I could have one wish for the Bills it would be for Belichick to coach this team. Did Andy Reid have a 3 point lead with 13 seconds left to play and the Bills on their own 25 and lose? Didn't think so. 8 minutes ago, Greg S said: Allen had a decent amount of time on the clock. Their was 13 ****ing seconds for the Chiefs when they started at their 25. Got it now. Ahhh, so you are one of those type of guys who has to take the last sentence of a poster and copy it to theirs. So petty. What are you, 12 years old? Edited January 25, 2022 by Mark80 Quote
eball Posted January 25, 2022 Posted January 25, 2022 I’m not clicking on the article (seriously), but I think I’ve identified McD’s issues. Didn’t want to start yet another “McD coaching” thread but here’s how I see it. McD is by nature a conservative guy. He has grown while in this position and does embrace some form of analytics and aggressiveness, but his use of it is sporadic week-to-week, and as we saw Sunday night, even within games. Aggressive on the first drive, cautious in the 3rd quarter, and then awful at the end with regard to the kickoff and strategy. There was absolutely no reason to punt on 3rd-and-1 in the 3rd quarter after the Chiefs went up 17-14. I yelled at the TV and said “we’ll be down 10 soon” and was exactly right (well, 9, but they missed the PAT). Here’s the problem: McD is coaching as if he doesn’t realize he has the most dynamic QB on the planet on his team. As soon as McD accepts that he can trust Josh in all situations, this team will become better. Now, this wasn’t always the case. We all know Sugar High Josh didn’t truly disappear until this season. But now, after watching how Josh finished the year, there is no doubt. He’s a bona fide superstar and McD needs to reconfigure his in-game thinking accordingly. I would kill to learn what exactly was discussed on the sideline prior to the last kickoff and defensive series, but I know we’ll never find out. Maybe McD told Bass to kick it high and short and he just missed it. Who knows. One of McD’s best qualities is to not throw anyone under the bus. But who directed the defense to guard the sidelines when KC had THREE timeouts? It still burns me up. So, in sum, McD needs to embrace the beauty of having a superstar QB and let that guide his decisions rather than coaching as if he’s afraid to give up field position. I’m not saying McD needs to go full Brandon Staley or John Harbaugh, but getting close wouldn’t hurt. I really, truly hope Leslie Frazier gets a HC job. I’d be happy for him, but I also want to see the Bills bring in a young, innovative defensive mind. McD can be fixed. I’m sure of it. 1 2 Quote
VaMilBill Posted January 25, 2022 Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) One of the worst things too, is the Chiefs are about to go to 3 straight Super Bowls, having won at least one of them, obviously threatening the Bills record of 4 in a row. We had a chance to not only go but to protect the legacy of pats Bills teams and we couldn’t do it in regards to McD making numerous monumental mistakes in the last 13 seconds, he always learns from mistakes. Problem is, we may never be in this position again. Things obviously change year to year including players on the team. What if Josh gets hurt or we are devastated by injuries next year? What if we don’t have games go our way and we miss playoffs? Etc. I love McD as a coach. But teams that win Super Bowls have coaches that are forward thinkers and think of all these situations prior to being in them so they know exactly what to do. It’s what makes Belichik suck a great coach. Edited January 25, 2022 by VaMilBill Quote
Greg S Posted January 25, 2022 Posted January 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, Mark80 said: Ahhh, so you are one of those type of guys who has to take the last sentence of a poster and copy it to theirs. So petty. What are you, 12 years old? Just throwing it back at you since you seem to have an attitude in your original posts with your "Didn't think so" and "Got it" remarks. I will try and be nicer to you snowflake. 1 Quote
Seventeen Posted January 25, 2022 Posted January 25, 2022 I would love to hear both McD and Frazier come out in their year-enders, admit they screwed up, and take the fall. No excuses. 1 2 Quote
Casey D Posted January 25, 2022 Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Donuts and Doritos said: Article makes very fair points. But as it concedes, McDermott seems to learn from past mistakes, like we all do. It's how players like Josh improved, coaches are no different. Did the coaching screw this one up? Yes. Will McDermott learn from it? Won't know until next year. Changing horses at coach means starting over in team philosophy that could set us back a year or 2, & doesn't guarantee success, see Dallas, Chargers (now & w/ Phillip Rivers), Cleveland, Green Bay, Atlanta. Only time I can think where changing coaches actually worked was Dungy to the Colts (Gruden to Tampa was overrated IMO). Stable franchises don't change coaches like people change clothes. We did that for 17 seasons. McDermott needs to learn & get better at 13 seconds. Odds are he'll have 2 new coordinators to help him do it, and hopefully that is change enough. Go Bills! In his paywalled article in the BN today, Jim Kubiak alludes to the last 13 seconds as a coaching choice between "preventing disaster" and being "aggressive." Bills took the prevent approach, and lost. It does not mean there were ridiculous decisions, given the text and flow of the game. Let's look at the final 13 seconds. To elaborate, the first debate was whether to kick away or squib. Most people say we should have squibbed or pooched. Obviously in hindsight that seems right. But the Bills had just given up a crushing punt return by Hill. That being front of mind, the lean would be to kick away. Nothing terrible can happen on a touchback. It was a safe call. It was not profoundly stupid, but it was cautious. And I think the Hill punt return played into it. And it was just 13 seconds, no one but Mahomes likely could do what he did in such a short time from the 25. Next was defending the last 13 seconds. Again, we need context. Bills took the lead with under two minutes. At 1:02 KC was back on top. Why, a 62 yard pass to Hill. Earlier the Bills came right back after a 9 point deficit with a quick 75 yard strike to Davis. Again that would be front of mind with coaches. But in basically trying to prevent a loss with a deep pass, the Bills almost gave away a FG. I'm sure the thinking was that in a worst case scenario, giving up a FG was better than a TD. But then the coin toss, and the rest is legendary history. McDermott got way too conservative in the final 13 seconds. By nature he is conservative. He has learned to be more aggressive in some situations, like 4th down. But in crunch time, when the amygdala kicks in, he reverts to conservative, unduly conservative IMO. Maybe that is a choke. But I am hopeful that it won't happen again, because McDermott is evolving like Josh is evolving. He needs to learn from this, like he learned from the 2020 championship game that FGs don't cut it against KC. This team has come so far under McDermott, and I think he will learn from this. Obviously, given the outcome, he should have done something different. But when Marv Levy was once asked after a failed call cost the Bills a win on whether he thinks he made the right choice, he said "of course not, we lost" I am sure that McDermott feels worse than anyone on this Board. Let's hope that pain moves him to improve. Edited January 25, 2022 by Casey D 3 1 1 1 1 Quote
colin Posted January 25, 2022 Posted January 25, 2022 20 minutes ago, Mark80 said: So giving up 2 TDs in the final 2 minutes doesn't qualify as choking, but giving up 2 plays does. Got it. One step further....how many years being a head coach did it take Reid to win a SB? It took him 21 seasons. 7 to even get to it. Now he's widely considered one of the best coaches. look, you make good points, the fact remains, the coaching mistakes on our team cost us a great win. the 13 seconds thing is just too much. fair point about reid too, but people called him a choker and a guy who doesn't run a tight ship, and at the time at least those were very accurate criticisms. Quote
ChevyVanMiller Posted January 25, 2022 Posted January 25, 2022 Jerry really needs to spend a few bucks on this product... Quote
Thriftygamer83 Posted January 25, 2022 Posted January 25, 2022 It's hard when Leslie Frazier is always the culprit, without Tre White it's a one dimensional team which relies too heavily on safeties, and doesn't have a pass rush to keep up with coverage sacks. That's where a bulk of our sacks and stances came from we had to rely too heavily on the safety group and try to match up with the cornerbacks. Quote
Stuartjohn Posted January 25, 2022 Posted January 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Buddy Hix said: Sullivan is 100% correct, McD is a choker. In tight spots McD becomes a deer in headlights. I think McD has been amazing as a catalyst for changing the culture at OBD and turning this franchise around, and fans should be thankful. Having said that, I also believe McD just cost this team a championship and he’s shown that he’s reached his ceiling, he’s not the guy to get this team to the next level. Unfortunately, McD isn’t going anywhere in the foreseeable future, so we as fans get to sit here and watch Allen’s prime get wasted. Great article- I agree 100%! We will waste Allen’s prime years because of ineptitude at coaching. I live in Florida and I’ve watched this with the Marino years! The Dolphins had Don Shula but Tom Olivadotti as the DC! Eerily similar to Lesley Frazier- Inexcusable how they blew the game with 13 seconds left! What Team would ever higher him now- Good riddance Bring Vic Fangio- get a Real DC! Quote
Mark80 Posted January 25, 2022 Posted January 25, 2022 9 minutes ago, colin said: look, you make good points, the fact remains, the coaching mistakes on our team cost us a great win. the 13 seconds thing is just too much. fair point about reid too, but people called him a choker and a guy who doesn't run a tight ship, and at the time at least those were very accurate criticisms. Very well may have. But to call for him to be fired is absolutely absurd. And that is what many are doing. 1 Quote
BuffaloBillyG Posted January 25, 2022 Posted January 25, 2022 1 hour ago, oldmanfan said: Correct assessment, but true journalists like Felser would not use the word choke just to be a dick. I grew up on Felser. Admired and respected him. His writing was professional, accurate and impartial. Larry Felser would be out of a job in 2022. That type of journalism died years ago. Quote
Mark80 Posted January 25, 2022 Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Greg S said: Just throwing it back at you since you seem to have an attitude in your original posts with your "Didn't think so" and "Got it" remarks. I will try and be nicer to you snowflake. No need, you are going on my ignore list now. Anyone who says "snowflake" is a complete tool who I have no desire to read what they write or engage with. But go ahead, get your last word in, because I guarantee you are that type of guy that just absolutely has to. Edited January 25, 2022 by Mark80 Quote
zow2 Posted January 25, 2022 Posted January 25, 2022 It just stinks that our D looks slow against the Chiefs big guns. They could not keep up with them. That's what makes KC a cut above everyone else when they are on. The way we feel is probably how a lot of AFC contenders felt back in the early-1990's. Think about how many good AFC teams never got to the SuperBowl because of the Buffalo Bills. Now we're chasing. Quote
Frostbite Posted January 25, 2022 Posted January 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: Did you watch the other QB? Mahomes is THE guy right now. Allen will have to put up more amazing performances to finally beat that guy. Allen outplayed Mahomes no question. There's nothing more he needs to do, or can do for that matter - he was let down by the so called #1 defense and bonehead coaching moves. Quote
BarleyNY Posted January 25, 2022 Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) Andy Reid has his team fully prepared for situations like we saw Sunday night. We’ve seen that before. McDermott did not. And we’ve seen that before too. That was the difference between the Chiefs or Bills getting to the SB. And it was the difference last season too even though the Bills were not directly involved. The pivotal moment came in the Chiefs-Browns game, but KC moved on to the AFCC game against the Bills because they were fully prepared. Ultimately it’s up to the Pegulas to make sure that McDermott & Co address preparing for such situations moving forward. Edited January 25, 2022 by BarleyNY 2 Quote
JMF2006 Posted January 25, 2022 Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) He(coach) wasn't on the field...the players need to make plays and the D just could do it. Josh did his part killing 6 minutes on the first of 2 TD drives and 50 seconds later the Bills were trailing again. Then Josh gets them the lead again leaving 13 seconds...again they can't cover and the games tied. Then OT and the D can't get a stop or force a FG. Thats my take. Edited January 25, 2022 by JMF2006 50 seconds 1 Quote
SoMAn Posted January 25, 2022 Posted January 25, 2022 No, I didn't open the link. The knee-jerk reaction to fire someone is so unnecessary. There were 2 really good teams out there. One of them had to win and one had to lose. it's that simple. This is the same coaching staff and players (mostly) that won 24 regular season and 3 playoff games over the past 2 years. Not too long ago, some of us would have given a left nut for those results. The Bills were somewhat hamstrung by a record number of extreme-weather games that likely had an effect on the high-powered passing game that is the Bills' bread and butter. One more win from a regular season game and the divisional contest and probably the AFC Championship games go through Highmark Stadium. If that kickoff in the final seconds of overtime had been squibbed and subsequently returned to the Bills' 45, Mahomes would only need around 5 seconds and 20 yards to be in FG range. Different scenario, same results, and the same people now screaming for coaching changes would be all over them for not kicking into the end zone. I think the big mistake from our coaching staff (assumed) is that they played the final 13 seconds somehow forgetting the Chiefs still had timeouts. The middle of the field was an option that wouldn't have been there without the TOs. After numerous 7-9, 8-8 seasons, we're getting a little spoiled. We have the QB we dreamed of having during the drought. The future is bright. In the words of Tom Petty, the waiting is the hardest part. 1 1 Quote
colin Posted January 25, 2022 Posted January 25, 2022 10 minutes ago, Mark80 said: Very well may have. But to call for him to be fired is absolutely absurd. And that is what many are doing. even if this egg is all on McDs face, i agree you can't fire him now (too much disruption). i do think someone has to go tho, most likely frazier (dabol is prolly gone to nyg too). frazier is on record saying he doesn't like having a back up plan, because it makes the team less confident on what they focused on all week. i think this is the crux of it. the bills D is a one note band. they have players who kinda do what they want them to do really well, and they practice the poop out of a few things and do them really well, but against a superior offensive mind, they get jammed up and simply have no answer, both in terms of scheme/execution and the athletes they have assembled to play d (at tremendous cost). so post frazier, mcd will need to bring in a guy, or help out himself, to make our D work w a plan b. IMO, we simply need a couple play makers in the front 7, and not spend so much money and picks on slight upgrades. FYI, i was responding to your initial post, i didn't and won't read the sully article LOL. Quote
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