Our defense always seems to come up short in the playoffs

[BuffaloRebound]

Like Favre and Green Bay in the ‘90’s, this defense needs its Reggie White on the D Line.  Frazier does the most with what he has.  I’d go after Khalil Mack.  Bears are rebuilding.  They don’t have a 1st rounder this year. 

[HamptonBillsfan]

8 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And I got plenty of pushbacks, eyerolls and vomit emojis anytime I questioned the defense and said anything about third & fourth down conversions.  Heck think I had a thread last week and was told how little I knew.

 

KC is a great offense, however the final 13 seconds was an epic fail (and OT), along with a couple of third down conversions.

 

One great play on third & one, where Reid tried to get too cute was pretty much all they did. 

I don't think you need game changing plays to defend during the last 13 seconds!!!!!!😡

Agreed, that was mind numbing incompetence and loss of simple situational coaching strategies. 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

You play strong competition and it offers an opportunity to improve. It is on you if you don't learn or are accepting of sub par performance. I don't buy the narrative that Chiefs are so good that nothing could be done. Sorry that's a loser argument. If you believe that the Bills defense performed as well as could be expected I don't what to tell you other than I disagree.

Edited January 25, 2022 by D. L. Hot-Flamethrower

[turftoe]

On 1/25/2022 at 8:25 AM, BuffaloRebound said:

Like Favre and Green Bay in the ‘90’s, this defense needs its Reggie White on the D Line.  Frazier does the most with what he has.  I’d go after Khalil Mack.  Bears are rebuilding.  They don’t have a 1st rounder this year. 

If Khalil Mack comes back from his foot injury without any lingering effects then he is a trade option that is really intriguing. Chicago needs to get weapons for their new young QB and the Ohio State WRs (Olave and Wilson) could be targets. Kind of like Cincinnati’s getting Chase Young to pair with their young QB. One of them could be there at pick 25. Trade down to pick 39 and include a 3rd next year and maybe Include AJ Epenesa. There will still be a good player at 39. Mack is 31 yo and for Chicago, he is very expensive. For the team acquiring his contract, is is reasonable and easy to get out of, if it didn’t work out. Maybe the third team is a charm, especially since is coming home to where he got his start at UB. Maybe he could fill a roll somewhat like Lorenzo’s rushing LB spot.

 

[gobills404]

On 1/24/2022 at 10:14 PM, LABILLBACKER said:

We've given up 80 points in our last 2 playoff games with KC. I love the comical term "we're built to stop KC".....what utter nonsense. 80 points= 0 pass rush!

The Bills pressured Mahomes on 40% of his dropbacks so the Chiefs just threw quick passes and got 275 YAC against our slow as balls secondary.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

People act like we lose 1st round every year.

 

Getting to a Super Bowl is very difficult. We can't act like we had a losing record every time we lose in the playoffs. If we make the playoffs the next 10 years with Allen we're going to lose the majority of years. Hopefully not every year.

[Thurman#1]

On 1/25/2022 at 11:54 AM, streetkings01 said:

When we need them most. 
 

#1 - Jags game - allowing Bortles to scramble for 1st down after 1st down when we desperately needed stops. I know our offense was trash that year, but our defense had no answers for Bortles legs.

 

#2 - Texans game - dominant 1st half to letting Watson work his magic and kick our butts the 2nd half and then sending us home in OT. 
 

#3 - Chiefs game - defense didn’t even show up for this game.

 

#4 - Chiefs game#2 - defense gives up Hill TD, FG on a 13 second drive and walk off TD in OT

 

Frazier has been the DC for all of those games……McDermott needs to get a DC in here that can adjust and understand situational football. Frazier has proven that he comes up short in big moments.

 

 

Really? Seriously? Good lord, this is pretty dumb stuff.

 

#1 - It's the defense's problem, when the opponent scored 10 points and managed 230 total yards? That's pretty far out into Stupidville.

 

#2 - The defense wasn't great, but the offense was worse.

 

#3 and #4 - When Mahomes is playing like that, nobody can stop him. You can maybe slow him down a bit and you can outscore him. He had an awful game against Cincy, lucky for them. If he'd played that bad against us, we would have made it a laugher. The offense was sensational this year but just not good enough last year. 

 

And leaving out all the games that don't support your point is just pure bush league.

[Shaw66]

On 1/24/2022 at 9:54 PM, streetkings01 said:

When we need them most. 
 

#1 - Jags game - allowing Bortles to scramble for 1st down after 1st down when we desperately needed stops. I know our offense was trash that year, but our defense had no answers for Bortles legs.

 

#2 - Texans game - dominant 1st half to letting Watson work his magic and kick our butts the 2nd half and then sending us home in OT. 
 

#3 - Chiefs game - defense didn’t even show up for this game.

 

#4 - Chiefs game#2 - defense gives up Hill TD, FG on a 13 second drive and walk off TD in OT

 

Frazier has been the DC for all of those games……McDermott needs to get a DC in here that can adjust and understand situational football. Frazier has proven that he comes up short in big moments.

I generally agree with this.  Look, it's all anecdotal evidence, so it's hard to say your examples really prove anything.   The defense has been good to excellent and gotten some big stops.   In fact, in the Texans game they got a great stop to get the ball back for Allen and the offense to tie the game and send it to overtime. 

 

But in general, I agree.  It's a bend-don't-break defensive philosophy, and that's a philosophy that's built on the idea that if your AVERAGES are good, then over the long run you'll be well served by the defense.   Well, that's nice and all that, but when it gets down to crunch time in the playoffs, no one cares about the long run - we care about right now.  

 

I keep remembering how the Rams-49ers playoff game ended - Jimmy G threw a desperation stupid pass that was intercepted.  Why?  Because Aaron Donald was in his face.  If your system is built on eight defensive linemen putting up good averages over the season, you probably don't have an Aaron Donald who can make a play for you. 

 

I think the defensive philosophy has to change.  I think they have to take more risks.  

[streetkings01]

6 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Really? Seriously? Good lord, this is pretty dumb stuff.

 

#1 - It's the defense's problem, when the opponent scored 10 points and managed 230 total yards? That's pretty far out into Stupidville.

 

#2 - The defense wasn't great, but the offense was worse.

 

#3 and #4 - When Mahomes is playing like that, nobody can stop him. You can maybe slow him down a bit and you can outscore him. He had an awful game against Cincy, lucky for them. If he'd played that bad against us, we would have made it a laugher. The offense was sensational this year but just not good enough last year. 

 

And leaving out all the games that don't support your point is just pure bush league.

#1 - Bortles ran all over us in the 2nd half whether it was 3rd and 12 or 3rd and 5……we did nothing in the 2nd half to adjust to that……falls on Frazier!

 

#2 - Proves my point that when we need the defense the most in big spots they seem to fall on their face…..falls on Frazier!

 

#3 - Our defense didn’t show up against a hobbled Mahomes behind a banged up oline, but the Bucs sure did. That falls on Frazier for a weak gameplan!

 

#4 - It was 13 seconds with the Chiefs at the 25 yard line……nothing else to say but, that falls on Frazier!

 

Save all the “dumb” “bush league” comments out of the responses, if you disagree you disagree all that extra stuff is unnecessary and ignorant.

[Chandler#81]

“always”, child? Did they come up short vs Rivers and the Colts? MVP L. Jackson?? NE’s prodigy Mac Jones??? In days of yore, did Elway, Marino, Schroeder, Montana & Rote/Hadle fare well against us?

 

No? 

 

We surrendered 10 points to the Jags, yet only scored 3. We were thoroughly beaten in the title game game a year ago, but beat KC convincingly in the regular season then lost in OT in the greatest offensive showing in playoff history. I’d remind you who the #1 Defense in the League was during the longest season in history, but facts obviously don’t interest you. 🤦‍♂️
 

 

[billsbackto81]

On 1/24/2022 at 10:14 PM, LABILLBACKER said:

We've given up 80 points in our last 2 playoff games with KC. I love the comical term "we're built to stop KC".....what utter nonsense. 80 points= 0 pass rush!

 

On 1/24/2022 at 10:18 PM, streetkings01 said:

I never subscribed to that. Without a true pass rushing stud how are we built to stop KC? 

I think when the term " built to beat KC" is referenced its pertaining to the offense and being able to score with them. 

 

Not too many defenses can stop KC when they're in rythum and Mahomes is killing it.

[BuffaloRebound]

It’s more the eye test than anything for me.  Oliver was our only D-Linemen who looked like he could chase down Mahomes.  Even if our other D-Linemen technically got a pressure on Mahomes, Mahomes easily juked them and never looked uncomfortable.  i guess that’s what it comes down to for me.  Can our defense make a Mahomes uncomfortable when it counts?  We might have a better D on paper than Cincy, but they had multiple guys upfront who could chase Mahomes down and make him uncomfortable.  And Apple was able to run with Hill and make a couple plays.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

10 minutes ago, streetkings01 said:

#1 - Bortles ran all over us in the 2nd half whether it was 3rd and 12 or 3rd and 5……we did nothing in the 2nd half to adjust to that……falls on Frazier!

 

#2 - Proves my point that when we need the defense the most in big spots they seem to fall on their face…..falls on Frazier!

 

#3 - Our defense didn’t show up against a hobbled Mahomes behind a banged up oline, but the Bucs sure did. That falls on Frazier for a weak gameplan!

 

#4 - It was 13 seconds with the Chiefs at the 25 yard line……nothing else to say but, that falls on Frazier!

 

Save all the “dumb” “bush league” comments out of the responses, if you disagree you disagree all that extra stuff is unnecessary and ignorant.

To me it's been players mostly not making tackles. Definitely in the Houston game. 

 

Even in the division game vs the Chiefs Mahomes was running all over the place. They made him move from his pocket a lot of the game but couldn't make a play upfront.

 

I honestly don't remember the Jags game in detail but they didn't give up much.

Edited February 13, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Saint Doug]

On 1/24/2022 at 10:14 PM, LABILLBACKER said:

We've given up 80 points in our last 2 playoff games with KC. I love the comical term "we're built to stop KC".....what utter nonsense. 80 points= 0 pass rush!

Yes, and people are advocating that we need more weapons for Allen. 

8 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

 

I think when the term " built to beat KC" is referenced its pertaining to the offense and being able to score with them. 

 

Not too many defenses can stop KC when they're in rythum and Mahomes is killing it.

The term “built to beat KC” came from Beane’s observations of what Tampa did to them in the ensuing Superbowl. The Tampa defense was able to contain the speed of the KC offense with a relentless pass rush. Then the next draft, we go DE for our first 2 picks. This was telegraphed by Beane. It was never about being able to outshoot the KC offense. We tried that this year and it failed. That’s a very dangerous game to play. The Bangles shut down his passing lanes and his running. That worked. 

[Buffalo Junction]

On 1/25/2022 at 8:25 AM, BuffaloRebound said:

Like Favre and Green Bay in the ‘90’s, this defense needs its Reggie White on the D Line.  Frazier does the most with what he has.  I’d go after Khalil Mack.  Bears are rebuilding.  They don’t have a 1st rounder this year. 

Reggie White was important, but he’s not the guy that took that D into overdrive. That season was the first where Gilbert Brown (NT) was healthy, they added a Eugene Robinson in FA, and Leroy Butler started wearing contacts (seriously). 
 

What’s equally notable is what they did on offense….. adding Andre Rison, Desmond Howard, and drafting three starting Olinemen. 

[billsfan714]

Totally agree, you need play makers on both sides of the ball.

[JoshAllin]

It's laughable cinci kicked field goals all game to beat kc while the bills needed a td every drive to come close to winning

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, Buffalo Junction said:

Reggie White was important, but he’s not the guy that took that D into overdrive. That season was the first where Gilbert Brown (NT) was healthy, they added a Eugene Robinson in FA, and Leroy Butler started wearing contacts (seriously). 
 

What’s equally notable is what they did on offense….. adding Andre Rison, Desmond Howard, and drafting three starting Olinemen. 

I think of Charles Woodson going to Green Bay also when Aaron Rodgers won it.

 

There's a free agent that won't get a lot of love around here but DT/DE Calais Campbell would be a great signing for toughness and veteran leadership on the DL. He's very close with Rousseau. We have a young DL with talent. A lot of high picks. Some guidance from a player like Campbell could be a big boost.

 

Patrick Peterson in the secondary would also be a good move.

 

 

[billsfan1959]

13 minutes ago, Saint Doug said:

Yes, and people are advocating that we need more weapons for Allen. 

The term “built to beat KC” came from Beane’s observations of what Tampa did to them in the ensuing Superbowl. The Tampa defense was able to contain the speed of the KC offense with a relentless pass rush. Then the next draft, we go DE for our first 2 picks. This was telegraphed by Beane. It was never about being able to outshoot the KC offense. We tried that this year and it failed. That’s a very dangerous game to play. The Bangles shut down his passing lanes and his running. That worked. 

 

The Bengals had a far worse defense than the BIlls (and every other playoff team) this year. That second half against KC was as much about the KC offense imploding as much as it was about anything the Bengals did defensively. 

 

And last year, that same Tampa defense got scorched by KC to the tune of 550+ yards just a month or so earlier.

 

The fact is, a kickoff in the field of play with 13 seconds left and that game is probably over. Regardless, at the end of regulation the Bills and KC were pretty even in every meaningful offensive metric you want to look at - including the score. So, yes, the Bills absolutely can go toe to toe with KC offensively. 

[PromoTheRobot]

What about this defensive play, or does it not count?