Reviewing Beane

[Dr.Sack]

23 hours ago, Gene1973 said:

This is usually what happens when you draft character over talent.

Deandre Smith a 2019 1st round pick of the Giants was cut due to armed robbery threats and made it over to the Chiefs that same year. Are you saying we need to roll the dice on suspect players? Do we have someone in our FO who does after guys facing felony charges?
 

Better yet we should just go for 2 and make it a 4 point game. Even if we fail converting we go into that final 13 seconds knowing  we lose if we give up 35 yards. 

[Magox]

You guys are a real hoot.   We were one of the laughing stocks of the league who hardly ever was able to reach above mediocre play for 20 years.   Then McD and Beane change the culture of this team, cut out all the cancers and assembled a roster that has gone to the playoffs 4 out of the five years and legitimately have a team that could have won the Super Bowl.

 

This team will win a Super Bowl within the next few years.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Magox said:

You guys are a real hoot.   We were one of the laughing stocks of the league who hardly ever was able to reach above mediocre play for 20 years.   Then McD and Beane change the culture of this team, cut out all the cancers and assembled a roster that has gone to the playoffs 4 out of the five years and legitimately have a team that could have won the Super Bowl.

 

This team will win a Super Bowl within the next few years.

 

I agree. Play that game from Sunday night ten times and I think the sides win 5 each. We are right there. We will lose sometimes to KC. They are great. They have a great Quarterback. We are great and we have a great Quarterback. Maybe Cincy or LAC join the party but their guys need to prove they can take on Mahomes and Allen in the post season and go toe to toe. 

 

We just played one of the greatest games in NFL history. To the eye test and the numbers the best Quarterbacked game in NFL history. It sucked to lose it the way we did. It was a missed opportunity. But to believe that it is the only chance this team will get when you see how we played that game is nonsensical. I still say job 1 - be seeded above KC. I am done going there every year. Let's get them here in 2022.  

10 hours ago, SCBills said:

He’s done a good job, imo.  
 

He assembled a team that beat KC.  Maybe he needs to take a heavier stance on the coaches, because they are the ones who gave away the win.  
 

My biggest issue with him is that he needs to draft more “Year One Ready” guys.   He drafts potential, but then we have guys…. “Oliver & Knox” who blossom 3 years into their rookie contract… then we have to pay them. 

Edmunds, Ford and Moss are his big misses.   Ford and Moss can be absorbed but Edmunds is rough one.  Even worse if we double down a extend him.  

He’s true to his philosophy of building a continual contender.   Managing the cap/assets to always be in the mix. 

 

Hopefully he sees the trend and invests future money/assets in Offense, Pass Rushers and Corners. 

 

I think when you are constantly drafting later in the draft then your choice are often pro-ready lower ceiling or traits. The Bills have shown us they value traits. High Relative Athletic Score guys. There has been the odd divergence from that but that has been their main method. That means sometimes you have to wait on that potential to be realised. 

[FireChans]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I'd keep both coordinators. I don't think it will happen. I think the Giants are going to hire Daboll. I think the Bills have one of the best sets of coordinators in the league and upgrading at either spot will not be easy. 

I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t excited for the “did we make a mistake hiring Mike McCoy as OC and letting Brian Daboll go?” threads next year.

[No_Matter_What]

19 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said:

He hasn’t done enough. He hasn’t drafted enough elite talent. If he misses this draft we need to start debating whether he is good enough. 

I don't know which one of your posts to quote but you are essentially saying the same all the time and it does not make sense.

 

What does not being "good enough" means in your book?

 

What I see is a regime which came after 20 years of mediocrity and built a powerhouse. We were in PO 4 of last 5 seasons, last two we were without doubt a top 4 team in the league, and we just lost in brutal fashion to a team which is now the biggest favorite to win it all. We are a great team, we just were (so far) not good/lucky enough to win it all. But we are, and with this regime most likely will be, in contention for the next decade. I don't understand how that is not "good enough" for any fan. It can only be not good enough for fans who "expect" us to win SB each year, which is quite silly as perfectly described by @BullBuchanan. There are 32 teams in the league, no matter how good GM is, there is no way whatsoever how to build a team that has more than 20% chance to win it all (and I think I am being generous here).

 

As for drafting, you keep saying how Beane is again not "good enough". Can you please have a look at other teams, and list 5 GMS who have drafted better last 4 years or so? You do realize that nobody hits on all of their picks? He missed some, everybody does. But he drafted Allen, Edmunds, Phillips, T.Johnson, Oliver, Knox, Singletary, Davis, Bass, Rousseau, Brown, etc. You might not agree that he hit on all of them, but the fact is that they - together with guys from 2017 draft which were all extended by Beane and some notable free agents signed by or traded for by Beane (Diggs, Morse, Williams, Bates, Addison) - create the core of team which owns the division and is 34-15 over last 3 seasons (I think its 4th best record but I need to double check). Oh and by the way, we are one of only 4 teams in the league who went into the playoffs for the last 3 years.

 

And even if there were let's say 3-4 teams who draft better or even have better GMS overall - do you really want fire Beane because of that and try to find somebody better? Because that is what you say when you claim that we "should be striving for elite". That makes no sense. You have a top 5 guy and you want better? Really?

 

And finally, like @Alphadawg7 has written - if not for 13 second mental breakdown of defensive coaches, right now we would be getting ready for AFCCG at home vs Bengals as huge favorites. That is the team Beane built. How is that not good enough?

 

I have no problem to point out Beane's mistakes, he certainly made a few. But overall he is a great GM and saying anything else at this point seems rather weird to me.

Edited January 25, 2022 by No_Matter_What

[GunnerBill]

17 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t excited for the “did we make a mistake hiring Mike McCoy as OC and letting Brian Daboll go?” threads next year.

 

the answer to that question is ALWAYS yes. 

[Nextmanup]

On 1/24/2022 at 3:34 AM, IronMaidenBills said:

We have not drafted enough high end talent. 

 

Edmunds rd 1

Basham rd 2

Epenesa rd 2

Ford rd 2

Moss rd 3 

Oliver rd 1 

Rousseau rd 1 

 

Have all underperformed their draft statuses thus far IMO. Especially Ford and Moss. 

 

I expect more from Edmunds, Oliver, and Rousseau given their rd 1 status. 

I am a big Beane SUPPORTER, much more so than a McDermott supporter.

 

Having said that, our drafting has been terrible.

 

There isn't a ball player on the entire list, and most of those guys are, or will be, busts to varying degrees.

 

The best of them is probably Ed Oliver, and I'd have no problem moving on from him tomorrow.

He's undersized for the NFL and fails too often to impact the game.

 

 

 

 

[Donuts and Doritos]

Bean drafted Josh Allen & acquired Stefon Diggs! 17 years w/o a playoff game, 17! We've been 4 out of 5 he's been here! 1 AFC Champ game & 13 seconds from a second and probably a SB appearance! Sure, he's missed on a few, everyone who takes a swing will have a few misses. What other team would not want Bean (Giants just took his Asst GM). I know we're all upset about the outcome of the game, but C'mon. It would be like firing Bill Polian after he put together teams that reached the SB. Keep the faith. Go Bills!

[SCBills]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think when you are constantly drafting later in the draft then your choice are often pro-ready lower ceiling or traits. The Bills have shown us they value traits. High Relative Athletic Score guys. There has been the odd divergence from that but that has been their main method. That means sometimes you have to wait on that potential to be realised. 

 

Completely agree.  

 

I think that changes this year as I could see us going CB/WR.  Typically those positions are earlier contributors than EDGE in the area we're drafting. 

[PromoTheRobot]

Beane engineered the trade ups to get Josh Allen, including getting to #12 in exchange for Cordy frickin Glenn. 

[Nihilarian]

 

Traded up to draft this...

 

Traded away Tyrod Taylor for a 3rd! W000000000!

 

Drafts have been terrible? Traded a #1 pick for WR Stephon Diggs!

Gabe Davis, 2020 4th round pick who just did something that WR Jerry Rice never did, catch 4 TDs in the playoffs. The Bass master with a 6th pick. CB Dane Jackson with a 7th who was out there playing in that playoff game. 

 

Dawson Knox who is gaining notoriety as a top TE. 3rd round pick. Devin Singletary who most wanted replaced up until a few games ago has been doing well...since he has been properly utilized. 

 

Most drafts take at least three years before we actually see what the players develop into. Attempting to draft a pass rusher over paying 12-17 million per for one makes an awful lot of sense to me.  

[JGMcD2]

On 1/24/2022 at 11:01 AM, IronMaidenBills said:

He hasn’t done enough. He hasn’t drafted enough elite talent. If he misses this draft we need to start debating whether he is good enough. 

Compare him to the rest of the league… he’s at the top. You keep barking for a replacement when the likelihood is that they’ll be worse.

 

He’s outdone his peers since coming to Buffalo. 

11 hours ago, No_Matter_What said:

I don't know which one of your posts to quote but you are essentially saying the same all the time and it does not make sense.

 

What does not being "good enough" means in your book?

 

What I see is a regime which came after 20 years of mediocrity and built a powerhouse. We were in PO 4 of last 5 seasons, last two we were without doubt a top 4 team in the league, and we just lost in brutal fashion to a team which is now the biggest favorite to win it all. We are a great team, we just were (so far) not good/lucky enough to win it all. But we are, and with this regime most likely will be, in contention for the next decade. I don't understand how that is not "good enough" for any fan. It can only be not good enough for fans who "expect" us to win SB each year, which is quite silly as perfectly described by @BullBuchanan. There are 32 teams in the league, no matter how good GM is, there is no way whatsoever how to build a team that has more than 20% chance to win it all (and I think I am being generous here).

 

As for drafting, you keep saying how Beane is again not "good enough". Can you please have a look at other teams, and list 5 GMS who have drafted better last 4 years or so? You do realize that nobody hits on all of their picks? He missed some, everybody does. But he drafted Allen, Edmunds, Phillips, T.Johnson, Oliver, Knox, Singletary, Davis, Bass, Rousseau, Brown, etc. You might not agree that he hit on all of them, but the fact is that they - together with guys from 2017 draft which were all extended by Beane and some notable free agents signed by or traded for by Beane (Diggs, Morse, Williams, Bates, Addison) - create the core of team which owns the division and is 34-15 over last 3 seasons (I think its 4th best record but I need to double check). Oh and by the way, we are one of only 4 teams in the league who went into the playoffs for the last 3 years.

 

And even if there were let's say 3-4 teams who draft better or even have better GMS overall - do you really want fire Beane because of that and try to find somebody better? Because that is what you say when you claim that we "should be striving for elite". That makes no sense. You have a top 5 guy and you want better? Really?

 

And finally, like @Alphadawg7 has written - if not for 13 second mental breakdown of defensive coaches, right now we would be getting ready for AFCCG at home vs Bengals as huge favorites. That is the team Beane built. How is that not good enough?

 

I have no problem to point out Beane's mistakes, he certainly made a few. But overall he is a great GM and saying anything else at this point seems rather weird to me.

What a ***** post. 
 

Extremely well written and level headed. 
 

Good for you… it’s nice to see this amongst all the slop on the board the past few days. 

[CorkScrewHill]

I think everyone would agree with the 2018 draft being an A+, Prisco in his regrade of 2019 draft (reasonable amount of time to judge) gave the Bills a B which I think is fair.

 

Buffalo Bills 

2019 Grade: B

The Skinny: They had eight picks, and three are starters heading into the 2022 season. They are first-round defensive tackle Ed Oliver, fourth-round tight end Dawson Knox and third-round running back Devin Singletary, although he will be pushed by this year's draft pick, James Cook. Oliver has been good, but not dominant. Second-round offensive lineman Cody Ford is a backup, who has started at times. 

How I did: I liked the pick of Oliver, and he's been a good player, not a great one. I didn't love the pick of Singletary in the third, and he's just been solid. I did like the choice of Knox. 

New Grade: B

 

It sounds just okay, until you read the review of the other drafts. 5 per Prisco were better, 3 were tied with a B grade and the rest (23) were worse and in some cases much worse than the Bills. 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/regrading-the-2019-nfl-draft-bill-belichick-goes-from-perfect-to-failure-49ers-improve-from-c-to-a/

 

Then there is the other thing to consider .. there is almost nobody on the team from before Beane joined and yet we were one screw up away from hosting the AFC championship after having gone to the AFC championship last year. This is the definition of what it looks like to have a great GM. No offense to people like @IronMaidenBills, but I think the group that thinks Beane is replaceable need to reevaluate.

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, CorkScrewHill said:

I think everyone would agree with the 2018 draft being an A+, Prisco in his regrade of 2019 draft (reasonable amount of time to judge) gave the Bills a B which I think is fair.

 

Buffalo Bills 

2019 Grade: B

The Skinny: They had eight picks, and three are starters heading into the 2022 season. They are first-round defensive tackle Ed Oliver, fourth-round tight end Dawson Knox and third-round running back Devin Singletary, although he will be pushed by this year's draft pick, James Cook. Oliver has been good, but not dominant. Second-round offensive lineman Cody Ford is a backup, who has started at times. 

How I did: I liked the pick of Oliver, and he's been a good player, not a great one. I didn't love the pick of Singletary in the third, and he's just been solid. I did like the choice of Knox. 

New Grade: B

 

It sounds just okay, until you read the review of the other drafts. 5 per Prisco were better, 3 were tied with a B grade and the rest (23) were worse and in some cases much worse than the Bills. 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/regrading-the-2019-nfl-draft-bill-belichick-goes-from-perfect-to-failure-49ers-improve-from-c-to-a/

 

Then there is the other thing to consider .. there is almost nobody on the team from before Beane joined and yet we were one screw up away from hosting the AFC championship after having gone to the AFC championship last year. This is the definition of what it looks like to have a great GM. No offense to people like @IronMaidenBills, but I think the group that thinks Beane is replaceable need to reevaluate.

 

Knox was a 3rd rounder not a 4th. They traded back into round 3 for him.  Otherwise I am with Prisco. My two favourite picks of that draft were Oliver and Knox. Didn't love Singletary (took him a round before I would have). We have seen how that has played out. Overall a B is fair. 

Edited May 20, 2022 by GunnerBill

[Don Otreply]

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts,  Beane is considered among the best at his job, so if by the OPs suggestion that he hasn’t been particularly good at his job, which is just silly, what does that say about all those that rank below him?. The OP is pretty much saying that the vast majority of NFL GMs are really terrible at their jobs, imo this thread is of no value.

 

Go Bills!!!

[Big Turk]

On 1/24/2022 at 3:36 AM, IronMaidenBills said:

I don’t either, but outside of Allen and a few others, he has underwhelmed so far. 

 

Lmao...right...compared to the GMs prior to him for the last 17 years who couldn't even get us into the playoffs once.

 

Built the best roster in football and the Super Bowl favorite.

 

If this is underwhelming then we need more of it.

Edited May 20, 2022 by Big Turk

[bobobonators]

On 1/24/2022 at 2:36 AM, IronMaidenBills said:

I don’t either, but outside of Allen and a few others, he has underwhelmed so far. 

“Outside of Allen” 

 

Drafting the best franchise QB since Kelly has the weight of 10 amazing draft picks. Beane is a rock star. 

Beane is a top 3 GM. Look at the talent on this roster. Some people are never happy. 

[Alphadawg7]

Is there a worse take on this board on any topic?  If so, please send it as I don't believe it.  

 

17 years straight losing.  Guts team in 2017 and 2018 to shed salary and dead weight and starts the meat of the rebuild in the 2018 draft.

 

3 years later, we are the #1 ranked offense, #1 ranked defense, reigning back to back 2 time division champion, perennial playoff team and SB contender, with the odds on favorite for MVP, odds on favorite to make and win the SB, and the consensus best roster in the NFL entering the season...a roster that does not have a single player on it from before the McBeane era.  

 

But please tells us some more how bad Beane is again.  

[JGMcD2]

On 1/24/2022 at 4:29 AM, IronMaidenBills said:

 

Allen 2018 rd 1 #7    (Great Pick)

Basham 2021 rd 2 #61  (Meh, maybe good) 

Bass 2020 rd 6 #188  (Great Pick) 

Boettger 2018 UDFA (Good pickup, all things considering) 

Brown 2021 rd 3 #93 (Good Pick, maybe great)

Bryant 2017 UDFA (Meh) 

Davis 2020 rd 4 #128 (Good Pick, maybe great)

Dawkins 2017 rd 2 #63 (Good Pick, maybe great) 

Dodson 2019 UDFA (Meh pickup)

Doyle 2021 rd 5 #161 (Meh, maybe good) 

Edmunds 2018 rd 1 #16 (Meh) 

Epenesa 2020 rd 2 #54 (Meh, maybe good) 

Ferguson 2016 UDFA (Great Pickup)

Ford 2019 rd 2 #38 (Dumpster fire, maybe meh)

Gilliam 2020 UDFA (Good Pickup) 

Hamlin 2021 rd 6 #212 (Meh)

Jackson 2020 rd 7 #239 (Good Pick) 

Johnson 2019 rd 6 #181 (Meh, maybe good) 

Taron Johnson 2018 rd 4 #121 (Good pick) 

Knox 2019 rd 3 #96 (Good Pick) 

Lewis 2019 UDFA (Meh pickup) 

Milano 2017 rd 5 #163 (Good Pick, maybe great) 

Moss 2020 rd 3 #86 (Dumpster fire, maybe meh) 

Neal 2018 rd 5 #154 (Good Pick) 

Oliver 2019 rd 1 #9 (Maybe good)

Phillips 2018 rd 3 #96 ( Maybe good)

Rousseau 2021 rd 1 #30 (Maybe good) 

Singletary 2019 rd 3 #74 (Good Pick) 

Stevenson2021 rd 6 #203 (Meh) 

Sweeney 2019 rd 7 #228 (Dumpster fire, maybe meh)

Wallace 2018 UDFA (Great Pickup, all things considering)  

White 2017 rd 1 #27 (Great pick) 

Zimmer 2016 UDFA (Good pickup

Labeling a 7th rounder a dumpster fire is a red flag for your entire thought process haha. It makes the whole thing laughable. 
 

Look at any talent acquired by other organizations during the same time frame, it’s not nearly as pretty. Josh Allen or no Josh Allen. 
 

 

[Aussie Joe]

On 1/24/2022 at 7:40 PM, Aussie Joe said:

 

 

He needs a DE in FA 

Posted this straight after the KC loss…

 

Glad he took my advice,,,

 

 

Edited May 20, 2022 by Aussie Joe