Reviewing Beane

[Ya Digg?]

13 minutes ago, todd said:

Here’s the deal: Your opinion of Beane is flawed by any measure. It’s a borderline trolling crusade. 
 

Fact is, Beane is the architect of a roster that is extremely successful. Period. Any dumbass “what if he didn’t draft Allen” scenario is stupid, because he did and has surrounded him with talent on both sides of the ball. 
 

Along with that, he has partnered with other parts of the organization to make sure players are developed and successful. This is just excellent leadership. It is irrefutable. 

What’s asinine about his argument is he takes away the Bills best player for making his point but doesn’t do that for any other team. Since he says Beane is average at best, that means he can name 15 or so better GM’s in the game right now…but when he does that he can’t factor in any decisions made about the QB.

 

[Royale with Cheese]

7 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Jeffery Simmons is definitely a machine 

 

I think he is one of the best defensive lineman in the league… not best or top 3 … but top 10 interior lineman

 

I would say definitely top 10 interior lineman.  I don't have him 2nd best overall in the league only behind Aaron Donald....not even close.

9 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

 

Remind me in 6 months.

 

Outside of QB, yes.

 

PFF has the Bills #1 and the Titans #20. 

[Augie]

1 hour ago, todd said:

Here’s the deal: Your opinion of Beane is flawed by any measure. It’s a borderline trolling crusade. 
 

Fact is, Beane is the architect of a roster that is extremely successful. Period. Any dumbass “what if he didn’t draft Allen” scenario is stupid, because he did and has surrounded him with talent on both sides of the ball. 
 

Along with that, he has partnered with other parts of the organization to make sure players are developed and successful. This is just excellent leadership. It is irrefutable. 

 

Let’s look at this from another angle. We should all agree QB is the most important position, and we have that one locked up long term. What are the other premium positions? I’d suggest LT, CB, edge rusher and WR.  We have Dawkins locked up. Tre is a star on a relatively fresh deal returning from injury (so we drafted Elam high). We invested heavily in the draft on DE and hope they develop, but since now is our window we signed a guy named Von Miller for immediate impact. We also traded for Diggs and extended him, plus we have Gabe Davis and Knox.

 

Nobody is going to hit on every draft pick or FA. Cherry picking the few things that didn’t go as hoped is a silly way to judge your GM. I like the ROSTER BUILDING starting with key positions they are doing. Identify your key players at key positions and lock them up long term. To say Beane isn’t a very good GM is like  saying Josh is just an OK quarterback. 

 

It seems the whole world agrees that Beane is building a very good football team with the emphasis on the right positions. The whole world….except a couple posters here who seem to relish in the attention of being “contrarians”. 

 

EDIT: Our highest paid players are QB, CB, WR, LT and Edge. The Pats* had two TE’s and a LB as their highest paid players last season. I like our strategy better.  

 

 

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Edited July 6, 2022 by Augie

[Royale with Cheese]

2 hours ago, BufBills83 said:

Are we really arguing the Titans have a better roster than the Bills?  We're supposed to be Superbowl favorites here.  Get out of here with this nonsense.  How does anyone figure the Titans are better?

 

Because Einstein says so.

 

He has Jeffrey Simmons as the 2nd best defensive player in the league.  He has him better than TJ Watt and Myles Garrett.

 

Einstein lists QB pressures as his evidence for Simmons being the 2nd best defensive player in the league.

How about we just talk sacks.

Since 2019 (Simmons rookie year)

TJ Watt - 51.5 sacks

Garrett - 38

Simmons - 13.5

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

NFL rosters really are pretty even. QB position is the difference.

 

I would say in the top 10, it's pretty even.  But teams at the bottom of the barrel, like the Falcons and Texans...there's a big difference.

[Einstein]

22 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

and Allen puts the Bills way over the top due to the heavy weight the QB position carries.

 

While H2H is not the end-all-be-all, consider that even with Allen (who as you point out is significantly better than Tannehill), we have still lost to that roster twice in a row. 

 

The Titans have a very strong roster. Their safeties are as good as ours, their LB's are better, their D-Line is better, their o-line was better, and their RB is better. The Bills have the edge in QB, WR, and perhaps O-Line now (after this offseason).

23 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

How about we just talk sacks.

Since 2019 (Simmons rookie year)

TJ Watt - 51.5 sacks

Garrett - 38

Simmons - 13.5

 

You're attempting to denigrate my knowledge while at the same time comparing sack numbers of a Defensive End and an Interior Lineman. Irony.

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, todd said:

Your opinion of Beane is flawed

 

In what way? To simply say that something is flawed while providing zero proof of such is not proof of anything.

 

1 hour ago, todd said:

It’s a borderline trolling crusade. 

 

A difference of opinion is not trolling. Its a difference of opinion.

 

1 hour ago, todd said:

Fact is, Beane is the architect of a roster that is extremely successful.

 

He is the architect of part of a successful roster, yes.

 

Our best defensive players were here before Beane was. Hyde, Poyer, Tre, Milano, and Hughes were inherited by Beane.

 

Our best offensive lineman, Dion Dawkins, was also inherited by Beane.

 

That is a lot of talent that was here before Beane ever stepped foot in the building. 

 

1 hour ago, todd said:

Any dumbass “what if he didn’t draft Allen” scenario is stupid

 

It's not a scenario, it's an isolation technique. 

 

Because the QB heavily influences a teams win/loss percentage (the QB position is heavily weighted), its difficult to evaluate other players with isolating the heavily weighted variable. This is common in science and analytics. 

 

1 hour ago, todd said:

Along with that, he has partnered with other parts of the organization to make sure players are developed and successful. 

 

Expound on this. I'm not sure what you mean. 

 

.

Edited July 6, 2022 by Einstein

[SCBills]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

 

 

This is really the difference between the two teams… and it makes a big difference.

 

The Bills roster is widely viewed as the best roster in the NFL because Beane has done a great job at putting "above-average/high-potential/reliable" talent everywhere, with depth, and yes.. most importantly.. with an elite QB.

 

Elite Talent:  Allen, Diggs, Miller, White

 

Above Average Talent:  Dawkins, Morse, Oliver, Edmunds, Milano, Johnson, Poyer, Hyde

 

High Potential Talent:  Brown, Bates, Cook, Davis, Rousseau, Elam

 

Reliable Talent: Saffold, Singletary, Crowder, Jones

 

Good (Rotation) Depth:  Keenum, Howard, McKenzie, Quessenberry, Settle, Phillips, Jackson

 

Then you look at the young guys I didn't mention.. Shakir, Hamlin, Bernard, Epenesa, Basham..  Juries still out on them. 

 

The OL depth is pretty good for in comparison to most NFL teams.  

 

Every group on this team is likely above average in comparison to other NFL teams.  The depth is above average in comparison to other NFL teams.  So when we say "Who has a better roster, Buffalo or Tennessee?".. QB is the main difference, but other notable differences are that they don't have a WR1.. they don't have the depth we have.. and they don't have above average talent or potential at almost every position on the roster.  There are noticeable weaknesses to exploit on paper.  On paper, Outside WR depth in the only glaring deficiency for the Bills.  

 

 

[Milanos Milano]

16 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

The Bills roster is widely viewed as the best roster in the NFL because Beane has done a great job at putting "above-average/high-potential/reliable" talent everywhere, with depth, and yes.. most importantly.. with an elite QB.

 

Elite Talent:  Allen, Diggs, Miller, White

 

Above Average Talent:  Dawkins, Morse, Oliver, Edmunds, Milano, Johnson, Poyer, Hyde

 

High Potential Talent:  Brown, Bates, Cook, Davis, Rousseau, Elam

 

Reliable Talent: Saffold, Singletary, Crowder, Jones

 

Good (Rotation) Depth:  Keenum, Howard, McKenzie, Quessenberry, Settle, Phillips, Jackson

 

Then you look at the young guys I didn't mention.. Shakir, Hamlin, Bernard, Epenesa, Basham..  Juries still out on them. 

 

The OL depth is pretty good for in comparison to most NFL teams.  

 

Every group on this team is likely above average in comparison to other NFL teams.  The depth is above average in comparison to other NFL teams.  So when we say "Who has a better roster, Buffalo or Tennessee?".. QB is the main difference, but other notable differences are that they don't have a WR1.. they don't have the depth we have.. and they don't have above average talent or potential at almost every position on the roster.  There are noticeable weaknesses to exploit on paper.  On paper, Outside WR depth in the only glaring deficiency for the Bills.  

 

 

If our roster is so elite, why haven’t we won any Super Bowls? Shouldn’t elite rosters beat other less elite rosters? Are we not winning Super Bowls because of coaching? Afterall, how is it possible for a lesser talented roster (Ram), to win a super bowl before the Bills? 

[Royale with Cheese]

25 minutes ago, Einstein said:

You're attempting to denigrate my knowledge while at the same time comparing sack numbers of a Defensive End and an Interior Lineman. Irony.

 

DT sacks in 2021:

Jeffrey Simmons - 8.5

Aaron Donald - 12.5

Cam Hayward - 10.0

Chris Jones - 9

 

As far as career, Jeffrey Simmons has 1.5 sacks more than Ed Oliver and Simmons (according to you) plays on much better DL.

 

I'm using more than that to denigrate your knowledge.

What are your thoughts on PFF putting us as the #1 roster in the NFL and the Titans #20?  Let me guess.  PFF is absolutely correct about Jeffrey Simmons but completely wrong about NFL roster rankings?

 

[Milanos Milano]

Lol Royale, you laugh at my post but won’t offer a rebuttal. You never answered my questions. 

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

If our roster is so elite, why haven’t we won any Super Bowls? Shouldn’t elite rosters beat other less elite rosters? Are we not winning Super Bowls because of coaching? Afterall, how is it possible for a lesser talented roster (Ram), to win a super bowl before the Bills? 

 

You have the most one tracked, tunnel vision of any poster in the history of this board.  Everything is so black and white with you.

 

3 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Lol Royale, you laugh at my post but won’t offer a rebuttal. You never answered my questions. 

 

I have answered your questions multiple times in other threads and you stick to your one track mind.

You have asked this question several times and want an objective answer which there isn't one.  It's very weird.

 

[Milanos Milano]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

You have the most one tracked, tunnel vision of any poster in the history of this board.  Everything is so black and white with you.

 

Just stop side skirting the question, answer it in your own words. What logic explains the lack of a super bowl if we have one of the most elite roster? If we have the strongest and most cunning soldiers and we are losing battles, is it not because we lack good generals? So which is it, coaching or talent? 

[Augie]

1 minute ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Just stop side skirting the question, answer it in your own words. What logic explains the lack of a super bowl if we have one of the most elite roster? If we have the strongest and most cunning soldiers and we are losing battles, is it not because we lack good generals? So which is it, coaching or talent? 

 

I’m watching Rafa Nadal losing to some guy named Fritz at Wimbledon right now. That doesn’t mean Nadal isn’t the better tennis player. 

 

There are no locks. There are a lot of very good teams, especially in the AFC. The better your team, the better your chances. No guarantees. 

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Just stop side skirting the question, answer it in your own words. What logic explains the lack of a super bowl if we have one of the most elite roster? If we have the strongest and most cunning soldiers and we are losing battles, is it not because we lack good generals? So which is it, coaching or talent? 

 

"one of the most elite rosters"....so you're saying there are other elite rosters in the NFL?  No way?!

 

Because not the most elite rosters wins it every year in any sport.  Were the Braves the most elite roster in baseball last year?

Were the 9-7 Giants the most elite roster when they beat the undefeated Pats?  

 

 

My god dude.  It's a team game in which multiple factors come into play.

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

DT sacks in 2021:

Jeffrey Simmons - 8.5

Aaron Donald - 12.5

Cam Hayward - 10.0

Chris Jones - 9

 

As far as career, Jeffrey Simmons has 1.5 sacks more than Ed Oliver and Simmons (according to you) plays on much better DL.

 

I'm using more than that to denigrate your knowledge.

What are your thoughts on PFF putting us as the #1 roster in the NFL and the Titans #20?  Let me guess.  PFF is absolutely correct about Jeffrey Simmons but completely wrong about NFL roster rankings?

 

 

This is pop-warner level commentary, but I suppose it needs to be said. Interior defensive linemen are not ranked on their sacks.

 

Simmons was voted All-Pro and tied Aaron Donald for defensive stops per game at 2.7. As was already published, his pass-rush-win rate was right up there with Donald too. He is amazing.

 

Just because you do not realize how good Simmons is, does not mean that others dont.

 

 

He was also recently ranked #31 among all NFL players by CBS (that includes QB's, WR's, Kickers etc.) and #10 on defense.  Personally, I think that is too low, but still a great number.

 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

 

I’m watching Rafa Nadal losing to some guy named Fritz at Wimbledon right now. That doesn’t mean Nadal isn’t the better tennis player. 

 

There are no locks. There are a lot of very good teams, especially in the AFC. The better your team, the better your chances. No guarantees. 

 

Since Tiger Woods was the best golfer for a period of time, I would assume he won the Masters 15 years in a row.  Because you know, he was the best.

[Milanos Milano]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

"one of the most elite rosters"....so you're saying there are other elite rosters in the NFL?  No way?!

 

Because not the most elite rosters wins it every year in any sport.  Were the Braves the most elite roster in baseball last year?

Were the 9-7 Giants the most elite roster when they beat the undefeated Pats?  

 

 

My god dude.  It's a team game in which multiple factors come into play.

Well by definition, elite means you win championships or find ways to do it regardless of your talent level. Usually that’s because they are guided by an elite coach or general. Apparently we don’t have an elite coach that can gather his troops enough to be consistent enough to win. 
This season is the last chance with me. There are no excuses now, we just added even more premium talent. Other coaches have won Super Bowls with far less talent than ours. 

4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Since Tiger Woods was the best golfer for a period of time, I would assume he won the Masters 15 years in a row.  Because you know, he was the best.

Lapses happen, but elite players and teams find ways to win multiple championships. Woods has many many victories, more than most. Elite rosters and elite coaches find ways to win. We aren’t elite in my book until we bring home the trophy. 

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Well by definition, elite means you win championships or find ways to do it regardless of your talent level. Usually that’s because they are guided by an elite coach or general. Apparently we don’t have an elite coach that can gather his troops enough to be consistent enough to win. 
This season is the last chance with me. There are no excuses now, we just added even more premium talent. Other coaches have won Super Bowls with far less talent than ours. 

 

So, are you saying you’ll be done with this team? Outta here forever kinda stuff?  

[Royale with Cheese]

10 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

This is pop-warner level commentary, but I suppose it needs to be said. Interior defensive linemen are not ranked on their sacks.

 

Simmons was voted All-Pro and tied Aaron Donald for defensive stops per game at 2.7. As was already published, his pass-rush-win rate was right up there with Donald too. He is amazing.

 

Just because you do not realize how good Simmons is, does not mean that others dont.

 

 

He was also recently ranked #31 among all NFL players by CBS (that includes QB's, WR's, Kickers etc.) and #10 on defense.  Personally, I think that is too low, but still a great number.

 

 

I'm not debating if he's good or not.  I know he's good.  I'm debating your claim that he's the 2nd best.

"DT's are not ranked by sacks" but then you put a PFF pass rush win rate up there.

 

Hey, PFF ranked us as the best roster in the NFL and the Titan's #20.  What are your thoughts on that?  They are off by 19 spots?

 

Oh yeah and here's PFF's best interior defensive player ranking.

Simmons #9!  #9 just among interior lineman LOL!

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-interior-defensive-line-rankings-tiers-2022

Edited July 6, 2022 by Royale with Cheese

[Milanos Milano]

Just now, Augie said:

 

So, are you saying you’ll be done with this team? Outta here forever kinda stuff?  

No, it’s just I will never say foolish things like we are elite. Elite means you find ways to win. If we aren’t winning, then clearly we aren’t elite and we need to figure out why.