Allen's play action technique - 2 points

[AuntieEm]

4 hours ago, K-9 said:

It’s the magician in him. Literally.

 

   Hey it be fun to have the Jonathan Dorenbos show up for  a pre-season game to lead the charge.   Then he and Josh could setup some little magic show for the kids at Oshei.  

 

[Rochesterfan]

12 hours ago, macnmotion said:

Setting aside the fact that the play action worked last week because of the great play calling mix and successful run game, I saw two things when Allen ran play action that really set it apart. Watch the TD play to Tommy Doyle and you'll see both of these:

 

1) Unlike many QBs running the play action, Allen did not hold the ball out to the RBs with both hands. He held it out with his left hand only, keeping his right hand free. When he began to curl around to his right after faking the handoff the ball was completely blocked by his body, and his empty throwing hand sent a signal to the D that the ball had been handed off.

 

2) Allen took the ball very deep (a 9 yard drop at the apex of his curl-around) and very fast into the backfield, leaving him a ton of time before any Defensive spies would have a chance to reach and pressure him. This left all options open to him -- passing if his target was open, looking for a secondary target, running himself or throwing the ball away. On the Doyle TD, the nearest defenders were 6 yards away from him when he threw the ball.

 

If the Bills can sell the run this weekend, I believe Allen's technique on the play action will open up some big plays for the Bills. Thoughts?

 

Third and maybe most important of all.

 

#3 - Josh performs similar action - even if he hands the ball off.  
 

The first two are important and his fake is really good, but the key is that he runs play action moves even when he hands it off on those types of plays.

 

It is critical because some QBs only carry out that motion when they have the ball and it signals to key defenders - Safeties and CBs and cover LBs exactly what is coming one step earlier.

 

Josh carries through the action sell bootleg even when handing off and it adds that extra piece to be even more successful.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

Third and maybe most important of all.

 

#3 - Josh performs similar action - even if he hands the ball off.  
 

The first two are important and his fake is really good, but the key is that he runs play action moves even when he hands it off on those types of plays.

 

It is critical because some QBs only carry out that motion when they have the ball and it signals to key defenders - Safeties and CBs and cover LBs exactly what is coming one step earlier.

 

Josh carries through the action sell bootleg even when handing off and it adds that extra piece to be even more successful.

 

His play action sell is an area where he has really improved his game. I think even as he started to ascend in 2019 he was still a bit easily readable on the play action. It is really hard to pick now and that is credit to him. That is the kind of thing people don't think about when they talk about Quarterbacks developing. It can't be measured by a statistic or a number..... but Josh's sell of the play action is a big area in which he has developed. I think he has developed this year on his selling of screens too, and while the Bills are still not a league leading screen team by any means, they are better than they were. 

[macnmotion]

17 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Third and maybe most important of all.

 

#3 - Josh performs similar action - even if he hands the ball off.  
 

The first two are important and his fake is really good, but the key is that he runs play action moves even when he hands it off on those types of plays.

 

It is critical because some QBs only carry out that motion when they have the ball and it signals to key defenders - Safeties and CBs and cover LBs exactly what is coming one step earlier.

 

Josh carries through the action sell bootleg even when handing off and it adds that extra piece to be even more successful.

 

 

Good point!

[SoCal Deek]

All of this is connected to the improvement in the O Line. They go hand in hand. I’ve got to believe Josh feels more comfortable carrying out these slight of hand moves when he knows he’s not about to run for his life a split second later from a wave of oncoming D Linemen. 

[Coffeesforclosers]

2 hours ago, eball said:

I’m looking forward to more “burnt toast” Sorensen and Mathieu’s exasperated hands in the air Sunday night.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think we're going to see Sorensen much.  He been replaced by Juan Thornhill, and Thornhill doesn't suck.

[Rochesterfan]

14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

His play action sell is an area where he has really improved his game. I think even as he started to ascend in 2019 he was still a bit easily readable on the play action. It is really hard to pick now and that is credit to him. That is the kind of thing people don't think about when they talk about Quarterbacks developing. It can't be measured by a statistic or a number..... but Josh's sell of the play action is a big area in which he has developed. I think he has developed this year on his selling of screens too, and while the Bills are still not a league leading screen team by any means, they are better than they were. 

 

I agree - he had some moments in the past and his best fakes have always been like the Doyle TD - get the ball on you hip, back to defense and roll out.  
 

His ball handling has gotten so much better that even wearing white sleeves - he faked out the defense several times - to the point on one play Judon only finally reacted when Spencer Brown looked back to figure out where Josh was headed to set up his next block.  
 

Judon was trying to run through Brown to get to the RB as Josh rolled past him.  I believe that was on the pass to Knox.  Josh had a 30 yard run looking at him and Knox running behind JC Jackson.  The pass ended up being a closer play only because Jackson looked back just before Josh threw it.  
 

You make the pass because you can see JC was not looking back, but just as he was setting up - JC glanced back and came within a couple of inches of knocking the ball down, but what a play call late, up big, play action and hit a deep route - guts all around.

 

 

[Rochesterfan]

2 minutes ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

 

Unfortunately, I don't think we're going to see Sorensen much.  He been replaced by Juan Thornhill, and Thornhill doesn't suck.

 

Except the last 2 times they have played us - they are playing Nickle with 3 safeties much of the time.  They are using Matthieu as a spy/hybrid LB to increase coverage and allow more defensive variations.

 

The teams that beat KC force them into more base packages and then exploit the LBs and the Safeties from base.  I think Knox and Gilliam could be huge for that.

[Bookie Man]

5 hours ago, K-9 said:

It’s the magician in him. Literally.

 

🤔..... 😅

[GunnerBill]

22 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Except the last 2 times they have played us - they are playing Nickle with 3 safeties much of the time.  They are using Matthieu as a spy/hybrid LB to increase coverage and allow more defensive variations.

 

The teams that beat KC force them into more base packages and then exploit the LBs and the Safeties from base.  I think Knox and Gilliam could be huge for that.

 

Yea their linebackers are not great in coverage. The problem is only Mathieu is of their safeties really. The Bills will use some big personnel and pass out of those looks on Sunday, I am certain. Just as they did week 5. 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea their linebackers are not great in coverage. The problem is only Mathieu is of their safeties really. The Bills will use some big personnel and pass out of those looks on Sunday, I am certain. Just as they did week 5. 

 

Would this include Tommy Doyle as the 3rd tackle?

[chris heff]

3 hours ago, eball said:

I’m looking forward to more “burnt toast” Sorensen and Mathieu’s exasperated hands in the air Sunday night.

Didn’t Sorensen lose his job? He is awful.

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Would this include Tommy Doyle as the 3rd tackle?

 

It could do. Putting that big man touchdown on film last week definitely gives KC something else to try and take away in the redzone. 

Just now, chris heff said:

Didn’t Sorensen lose his job? He is awful.

 

He did but he is still playing about half the snaps on defense. I think only a couple of games below 45% since he "lost" the starting gig. 

[LABILLBACKER]

13 hours ago, NewEra said:

Amen.  I’m so thankful that we’ve been able to discover a run game. 

I said all along once this team finds a legit run game it's off to the races.

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

It could do. Putting that big man touchdown on film last week definitely gives KC something else to try and take away in the redzone. 

 

I was thinking of doing this not at just the goal line.  

 

I really like having McKenzie in the backfield for the passing game.  That seems like a matchup nightmare, especially on the blitz.  

[billsfan1959]

During the regular season, among QBs with a min of 200 attempts, Allen was:

 

- 1st in total play action attempts (178)

- 1st in total play action yards (1643)

- 3rd in highest % play action attempts to total attempts (28%)

 - 2nd in highest % play action yards to total yards (37%)

 

- His rating on play action passing was 114.5

- 42% of his passing TDs came off play action

 

In the Wild Card playoff game:

 

 

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I was thinking of doing this not at just the goal line.  

 

I really like having McKenzie in the backfield for the passing game.  That seems like a matchup nightmare, especially on the blitz.  

 

Yea agree on McKenzie. They did a bit of that early in the year then got away from it. I like him there and getting him back on the field has helped our offense.

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

All of this is connected to the improvement in the O Line. They go hand in hand. I’ve got to believe Josh feels more comfortable carrying out these slight of hand moves when he knows he’s not about to run for his life a split second later from a wave of oncoming D Linemen. 

True, and there's more.  The whole point of the play action is to give the oline an advantage in the pass pro.  Successful play action stops the initial burst that can cause the pocket to collapse quickly, and it allows the blocker to establish position.  So, the line helps the QB and the QB helps the line. 

Edited January 20, 2022 by Shaw66

[Solomon Grundy]

55 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

During the regular season, among QBs with a min of 200 attempts, Allen was:

 

- 1st in total play action attempts (178)

- 1st in total play action yards (1643)

- 3rd in highest % play action attempts to total attempts (28%)

 - 2nd in highest % play action yards to total yards (37%)

 

- His rating on play action passing was 114.5

- 42% of his passing TDs came off play action

 

In the Wild Card playoff game:

 

 

I’ve read an article that says statistically this is when Josh is at his best

[letsgoteam]

50 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea agree on McKenzie. They did a bit of that early in the year then got away from it. I like him there and getting him back on the field has helped our offense.

Also like how they are using him as the change of pace RB. Makes it just one more thing the D has to account for when he is on the field.