Wouldn’t it be awesome if Belichick retired?

[Mr. WEO]

24 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

First off Josh had zero to work with his rookie season. It was pretty much just him and him only. Yes he made a ***** ton of mistakes but there was a lot of upside and promise that was shown during his rookie year. There’s really no upside in Mac’s game. What you see is what you get with Mac, a Jay Fiedler type of game manager. 

 

True Josh didn't have much other than "Shady".  And true, there was some promise shown.

 

But you're saying that Jones, a guy no one expected much from who turned out to be a top 15 QB as a rookie has zero potential to get better ("upside")?  

 

My point in all of this is I don't know how that conclusion can come so soon.  Posters here said the same thing about Brady for years on end.  And certainly many on and off this board said the same about Josh after 1 year (some still do!).

[BuffaloBills1998]

32 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

True Josh didn't have much other than "Shady".  And true, there was some promise shown.

 

But you're saying that Jones, a guy no one expected much from who turned out to be a top 15 QB as a rookie has zero potential to get better ("upside")?  

 

My point in all of this is I don't know how that conclusion can come so soon.  Posters here said the same thing about Brady for years on end.  And certainly many on and off this board said the same about Josh after 1 year (some still do!).

Shady was completely done by the time Josh got here. Josh literally had no one but himself his rookie season. And I’m sorry I don’t see any upside with Jones. He has a weaker arm than Tua, he can’t read defenses. He’s just about as physically if not more physically limited than what Jay Fiedler was. I don’t see what you see in terms of upside for him

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

There's the John from Riverside white flag retreat!

 

My points weren't complicated.  If you can't make a cogent argument then by all means stop mischaracterizing mine.  lol  "you think he's Tom Brady".  yeah, that's what I said!

 

 

Its not a retreat....its just recognizing this for what it is....and I will enjoy watching the Patriots trying to make Mac Jones look viable for the next couple of years.....

 

ZERO upside.

[Greg S]

Bill Belichick’s record without Tom Brady:

Regular Season: 62-74

Playoffs: 1-1

Total: 63-75

[BillsFanSD]

I didn't realize Belichick was 70 -- he doesn't look a day over 75.  

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

Shady was completely done by the time Josh got here. Josh literally had no one but himself his rookie season. And I’m sorry I don’t see any upside with Jones. He has a weaker arm than Tua, he can’t read defenses. He’s just about as physically if not more physically limited than what Jay Fiedler was. I don’t see what you see in terms of upside for him

I don’t know what his upside.  But you would have to say he outperformed your expectations of him.  In such a case it doesn’t make sense to conclude such a player cannot possibly get better.  

[dave mcbride]

17 minutes ago, Greg S said:

Bill Belichick’s record without Tom Brady:

Regular Season: 62-74

Playoffs: 1-1

Total: 63-75

72-79 in the regular season without Brady, not 62-74. 

 

36-44 with Cleveland

5-13 pre-Brady with NE

14-6 in NE games without Brady while Brady was there (in the opener of 2008, Brady played less than half a quarter and the score was 0-0 when he left; BB gets credit for that win) -- 11-5 in 2008, and 3-1 in 2016 (Brady suspension)

17-16 post Brady

 

He's 36-35 in NE overall without Brady and 31-22 after Brady took the reins.

 

1-2 in the playoffs (losses in 1994 and this season).

Edited January 19, 2022 by dave mcbride

[Greg S]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

77-79 in the regular season without Brady, not 62-74. 

 

36-44 with Cleveland

5-13 pre-Brady with NE

14-6 in NE games without Brady while Brady was there (in the opener of 2008, Brady played less than half a quarter and the score was 0-0 when he left; BB gets credit for that win)

17-16 post Brady

 

He's 36-35 in NE overall without Brady and 31-22 after Brady took the reins.

 

1-2 in the playoffs (losses in 1994 and this season).

 

My bad. But he is still around a .500 coach without the GOAT QB. He will still be considered the GOAT HC because of Brady.

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Greg S said:

 

My bad. But he is still around a .500 coach without the GOAT QB. He will still be considered the GOAT HC because of Brady.

Agreed. The one mitigating factor is that 1995 season in Cleveland. They were a preseason favorite and got off to a decent start (3-1). Then Modell announced the move (I think in October) and the roof caved in after that -- fans revolting, total organizational chaos, etc.

[BADOLBILZ]

8 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Agreed. The one mitigating factor is that 1995 season in Cleveland. They were a preseason favorite and got off to a decent start (3-1). Then Modell announced the move (I think in October) and the roof caved in after that -- fans revolting, total organizational chaos, etc.

 

 

Yeah the notion that he's not a great HC without Brady is false.

 

He took over a Browns team that was in a bad way and got them back to the playoffs and was on his way to building a perennial contender before Modell's mistakes caught up with the organization and forced the move..........but the foundation that he laid there is what became the Ravens........one of the top 5 most consistent winning organizations in the 2000's.

 

He's a legitimately great HC............fortunately for the rest of us he's not been a great personnel man.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

22 hours ago, eball said:

It would mean the Bills ended the careers of two of the greatest ever (Shula and BB) in humiliating fashion. 
 

I would enjoy that. 
 

 

Yeah but it would be awesome to beat them down for awhile to come.

 

 

22 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

It's hard to imagine that the two greatest/winningest HC in NFL's modern era (Shula 35-17 v. Bills, 2 SB rings; BB 36-8, 6 rings) would have noted that their careers ended after a Bills game.

 

Rex Ryan, on the other hand.....

 

well Wrecks career did end after a BILLS game 😈😈

 

 

[BuffaloBills1998]

5 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

I don’t know what his upside.  But you would have to say he outperformed your expectations of him.  In such a case it doesn’t make sense to conclude such a player cannot possibly get better.  

It’s just my opinion of course but I don’t think he outperformed expectations at all. And he hasn’t been the same since he was held to only 2-3 passes his first series against us. I said before Bill doesn’t trust him and I strongly believe Belicheat knows he doesn’t have a QB that he can compete with. 

[Mr. WEO]

10 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

It’s just my opinion of course but I don’t think he outperformed expectations at all. And he hasn’t been the same since he was held to only 2-3 passes his first series against us. I said before Bill doesn’t trust him and I strongly believe Belicheat knows he doesn’t have a QB that he can compete with. 

 

A rookie coming out of Alabama (not the best training ground for future NFL QBs) with only 16 college starts and who finished 13th in yards (just behind MAtt Ryan, ahead of Big Ben, Tannehill, Trevor Lawrence, Wentz) and 8th in completion % (ahead of Brady, Tannehill, Stafford, Mahomes, Herbert....), 14th in TD (more than Tannehill, Ryan, Garoppolo, Lawrence), 15th in rating (better than Josh, Ryan, Tannehill, Big Ben).  By all metrics, he had a better season than Tannehill, QB of the top team in the AFC.  In an offensive  "rebuild", he helped lead a moribund 7-9 team that missed the playoffs for the first time in 12 years to a playoff appearance.

 

Given all of this, what, exactly, were your expectations of his performance at the beginning of the season?

 

 

[T master]

Nope not yet they have put the Bills through hell every year for the last 20 years & i for one would like the revel in the Patriots & BB pain when ever the Bills beat them so let him stick around for a while so he knows exactly how Bills fans have felt for the past pain he has inflicted on us all !! 

[BBills88]

Nope! Than he can go cheat more efficiently for the Patriots without any repercussions.

[Freddie's Dead]

On 1/18/2022 at 6:38 PM, Gene1973 said:

Elderly abuse is not cool.

 

Abusing cheaters is way cool.

[Freddie's Dead]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

A rookie coming out of Alabama (not the best training ground for future NFL QBs) with only 16 college starts and who finished 13th in yards (just behind MAtt Ryan, ahead of Big Ben, Tannehill, Trevor Lawrence, Wentz) and 8th in completion % (ahead of Brady, Tannehill, Stafford, Mahomes, Herbert....), 14th in TD (more than Tannehill, Ryan, Garoppolo, Lawrence), 15th in rating (better than Josh, Ryan, Tannehill, Big Ben).  By all metrics, he had a better season than Tannehill, QB of the top team in the AFC.  In an offensive  "rebuild", he helped lead a moribund 7-9 team that missed the playoffs for the first time in 12 years to a playoff appearance.

 

Given all of this, what, exactly, were your expectations of his performance at the beginning of the season?

 

 

 

Agreed.  I think all the Mac Jones trashing in this forum is a bit overwrought.  He's not a noodle-arm (the definition now appears to be any QB with less than Josh arm strength), but that's the adjective many here apply to Mac.  If that pass to Agholor is just one more foot longer, it's a 7-7 game.  He'll never be Josh Allen, but he will get better.  I expect we'll be seeing the Cheats in the WC round a lot in the future, since they won't win the AFC East (that's us).  While Mac Jones is physically limited compared to Josh, he'll improve enough to beat everyone else.

[Mr. WEO]

45 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

Agreed.  I think all the Mac Jones trashing in this forum is a bit overwrought.  He's not a noodle-arm (the definition now appears to be any QB with less than Josh arm strength), but that's the adjective many here apply to Mac.  If that pass to Agholor is just one more foot longer, it's a 7-7 game.  He'll never be Josh Allen, but he will get better.  I expect we'll be seeing the Cheats in the WC round a lot in the future, since they won't win the AFC East (that's us).  While Mac Jones is physically limited compared to Josh, he'll improve enough to beat everyone else.

 

Plenty of lesser arms in the NFL.  Tannehill is a great example.  He's QB of the #1 seed.  He's always been a mediocrity, but on a good team....there he is.  Matt Ryan has passed a million yards with very mediocre arm strength. Brees had a great career and won a SB with a not-live arm.

 

None of these posters claiming Jones didn't exceed expectations can point to a week one post where they stated he would be a top half QB who would lead NE to the playoffs---and challenge the Bills for the Division to the end of the season.  

 

Sure, this may be his career peak.  But after what by any account (despite the BS above) was a much better season than predicted, it's hard to credibly say BB should be done with the guy now, as some are saying.

[QLBillsFan]

On 1/19/2022 at 4:46 AM, Mr. WEO said:

 

How do you know he's close to his ceiling after a season?

 

Did you think, on week 1 that they would be challenging the Bills for the Division title right up to the end of the season and would face the Bills in the playoffs?

 

Do you also think BB should dump him and move on (the topic I was responding to)?

 

BB won 3 early in Brady's career.

 

"right out of the gate", Brady: 2843 yards, 64% 12 ints (2.9%).  Jones 3801 68% 13 ints (2.5%)

 

 

Don’t think BB will dump him. He played at Alabama with better players than opponents. Could not beat out Tua. Limited arm strength and already smart in his reads. So I see limited upside. 

[QLBillsFan]

On 1/19/2022 at 8:47 AM, John from Riverside said:

Look weo Everyone knows that you’re a closet patriot fan here if you look at Mac Jones and you think that he’s Tom Brady all I can say is LOL and enjoy the ride

Pats fans want to say look at JA’s rookie year and say ..see Mac had a better statistical year in all areas. That is correct. But you also saw potential in JA that was exponentially better than Mac. Hence Mac is close to his ceiling and will never reach JA or Herbert or JB.
That is the Pats dilemma. If in 2-3 years I’m proven wrong I’ll admit it. But like Tua I don’t see Mac relevant in the AFC playoff picture with those fellas. Let’s add in Mahomes and Lamar. That’s 5 QB’s all 26 or under, yikes!