Upon further review ... Spencer Brown is a BALLER

[FilthyBeast]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Well, this weeks the test. Chiefs have a stout line and Chris Jones ***** on the interior line in the championship game last year. 

 

This is the true key to the game, if the Bills can't keep Jones in check they won't have a chance in this game because they will fall behind big early and not be able to keep pace with Mahomes.

 

Also why the first matchup has a true asterisk and means nothing in hindsight because this guy wasn't on the field.

[Matt_In_NH]

That man looks enormous when compared to other NFL linemen! 

[appoo]

2 hours ago, JÂy RÛßeÒ said:

Cody Ford = rare Beane draft miss.  Brown is the one.

He made up for it by trading for Ryan Bates that same off season

[Doc]

59 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

The unexpected emergence of Spencer Brown has been a top highlight in another great season full of highlights.

 

Our OL needs some serious work, but that load on Beane seems to be lightening with Brown's development and the coaching decision to FINALLY start Bates. We've gone from needing 3-4 new OL, to maybe 1-3.

 

Dawkins is locked in, Brown is now locked in, Bates and Feliciano bring a good competition to LG and general, versatile interior OL depth (not to forget about D Williams).

 

Need to find Morse's replacement, and 1 or 2 more Guard prospects, and we should be ready to roll.

 

They can bring back the entire current starting OL next year, provided Morse doesn't retire (I'm sure they'll tender Bates).  They've got Dawkins and Brown signed through 2024 and Williams through 2023.  If Bates plays well, they may extend him.  That leaves Morse as the oldest and position they'll really need to address sooner rather than later.

[appoo]

Pretty impressive in season overhaul honestly

 

We started out with 

 

LT - Dawkins

LG - Ford

C - Morse

RG - Feliciano

RT - Williams

 

We're finishing with 

 

LT - Dawkins

LG - Bates

C - Morse

RG - Williams

RT- Brown

 

Three new starting positions, and both Bates and Brown look like plus players at their spots. That means you can go cheap/young for the other starting guard, swing and depth. 

 

5 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

They can bring back the entire current starting OL next year, provided Morse doesn't retire (I'm sure they'll tender Bates).  They've got Dawkins and Brown signed through 2024 and Williams through 2023.  If Bates plays well, they may extend him.  That leaves Morse as the oldest and position they'll really need to address sooner rather than later.

 

Like a first round tender. He's well worth 4.7M against the cap

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, Doc said:

 

They can bring back the entire current starting OL next year, provided Morse doesn't retire (I'm sure they'll tender Bates).  They've got Dawkins and Brown signed through 2024 and Williams through 2023.  If Bates plays well, they may extend him.  That leaves Morse as the oldest and position they'll really need to address sooner rather than later.

 

Sure, at the very least we can keep exactly what we have, which is finally starting to gel and click. But I do think there is room for improvement at OG, and certainly Center.

 

Jordan Davis in the 1st, Best Center on the Board in the 2nd, and I think we're good!

[muppy]

1 hour ago, RobbRiddick said:

If the Bills do win the super bowl I hope Doyle turns up at the White House in full uniform

I love his size, his potential and that TD catch was gorgeous lol I'm all IN..of course I root for them all to be Great.........I do love how the Attitude and swagger this team has, the chemistry and comradery elevates the play of ALL of them top to bottom. I really think so.

[Buffalo Boy]

15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

To be fair the line did a great job on that play. Allen sits in the original pocket behind a "wall" for 4 seconds. He then moves into a second "pocket" to the right of the main pocket not because he is pressured but because he is trying to find a path to an open receiver because the Pats DBs did a great job plastering. He sits in the secondary pocket for another 3 seconds and it is only 7 seconds into the play that pressure finally emerges and forces Allen out towards the sideline. 

 

If you want the oline to block for 7 or 8 seconds on every play I think that is an unrealistic expectation. 

    I would like to see Josh run less and become more of a pocket / drop back passer.

    LOVE LOVE LOVE his legs and ability but it is a double edged sword.

    I watched Cam get run into the ground and not be protected from himself by Shula.

    Josh is already a much better passer than Cam. But, he also is reckless and it only takes ONE hit and he’s got an injured throwing shoulder. 
   I want him here in 10 years with one of the strongest arms in the league. An O line and a rushing attack that doesn’t rely on him is what I would like.

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, appoo said:

Pretty impressive in season overhaul honestly

 

We started out with 

 

LT - Dawkins

LG - Ford

C - Morse

RG - Feliciano

RT - Williams

 

We're finishing with 

 

LT - Dawkins

LG - Bates

C - Morse

RG - Williams

RT- Brown

 

Three new starting positions, and both Bates and Brown look like plus players at their spots. That means you can go cheap/young for the other starting guard, swing and depth. 

 

 

Like a first round tender. He's well worth 4.7M against the cap

 

I'm thinking they tender him with right of first refusal at $2.4M.  No need to overpay unless someone else offers a huge deal, which I don't see.

 

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Sure, at the very least we can keep exactly what we have, which is finally starting to gel and click. But I do think there is room for improvement at OG, and certainly Center.

 

Jordan Davis in the 1st, Best Center on the Board in the 2nd, and I think we're good!

 

I can't see Davis lasting that long.  And I think CB might have to be the pick.

[appoo]

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Sure, at the very least we can keep exactly what we have, which is finally starting to gel and click. But I do think there is room for improvement at OG, and certainly Center.

 

Jordan Davis in the 1st, Best Center on the Board in the 2nd, and I think we're good!

Would have to think CB is going to be a high priority this offseason - higher than OLine. In fact it's probaly prior #1 and #2. 

 

I would think it's CB, CB, Guard, DT, safety (need someone to groom at safety)

[billsfan1959]

1 minute ago, Buffalo Boy said:

    I would like to see Josh run less and become more of a pocket / drop back passer.

    LOVE LOVE LOVE his legs and ability but it is a double edged sword.

    I watched Cam get run into the ground and not be protected from himself by Shula.

    Josh is already a much better passer than Cam. But, he also is reckless and it only takes ONE hit and he’s got an injured throwing shoulder. 
   I want him here in 10 years with one of the strongest arms in the league. An O line and a rushing attack that doesn’t rely on him is what I would like.

 

He already is one of the best pocket passers. Running is part of his game and he is much smarter about it that when he first came into the league. I don't have any more worries when he runs than with OL and DL players rolling up on him in the pocket

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

    I would like to see Josh run less and become more of a pocket / drop back passer.

    LOVE LOVE LOVE his legs and ability but it is a double edged sword.

    I watched Cam get run into the ground and not be protected from himself by Shula.

    Josh is already a much better passer than Cam. But, he also is reckless and it only takes ONE hit and he’s got an injured throwing shoulder. 
   I want him here in 10 years with one of the strongest arms in the league. An O line and a rushing attack that doesn’t rely on him is what I would like.

 

But that play to Knox was nothing to do with the line. That was Josh being Josh. He wasn't flushed out by pressure, in fact he was very well protected. The alternative to scrambling there is him just giving up on the play when nobody has uncovered after 5 or 6 seconds and throwing it away. I don't think you will ever take that gunslinger out of Josh. Even if he had a wall of offensive linemen in front of him. He is always going to do everything it takes to make a play. It's just who he is. Nothing coaches or teammates do will change that IMO. 

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

I can't see Davis lasting that long.  And I think CB might have to be the pick.

 

1 minute ago, appoo said:

Would have to think CB is going to be a high priority this offseason - higher than OLine. In fact it's probaly prior #1 and #2. 

 

I would think it's CB, CB, Guard, DT, safety (need someone to groom at safety)

 

I think Davis will be gone before we pick at #32 as well, but just saying.

 

A month or so ago, I agreed that we would look CB early, and we still might. However, since then, our Defense hasnt missed a beat with Tre gone and Wallace and Jackson stepping up. Taron is locked into the Nickel spot, so we are good there. And already have some depth with Lewis and even Neal.

 

Re-sign Wallace, and I don't see a need to spend a 1st on CB. I'd rather dedicate early picks to the trenches. Get WR and DB depth later.

 

I especially don't think we need TWO early CBs. We're 4 good starters deep right now.

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, JÂy RÛßeÒ said:

Cody Ford = rare Beane draft miss.  Brown is the one.

 

 

Shows the difference between drafting for immediate need(Ford)..........and taking the BPA(Brown).

 

The Ford pick should have been DK Metcalf............but Brown is an athletic freak at RT that is similar to how Metcalf was testing.     Brown tested thru the roof for a tackle.

 

 

[BuffaloBill]

3 hours ago, Dan Darragh said:

If you're like me you've already watched this play 50 times but notice what Spencer Brown does on this play: after the play was busted and Josh was scrambling, Spencer flattened Van Noy (53) not once but twice. Spencer is the unsung hero of this magnificent play.

 

click here to watch

 

 

Flattened twice is a bit of a stretch … blocked well once then took him down once is a better description. However, Brown has been a very pleasant surprise this season.

[Buffalo Boy]

18 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

But that play to Knox was nothing to do with the line. That was Josh being Josh. He wasn't flushed out by pressure, in fact he was very well protected. The alternative to scrambling there is him just giving up on the play when nobody has uncovered after 5 or 6 seconds and throwing it away. I don't think you will ever take that gunslinger out of Josh. Even if he had a wall of offensive linemen in front of him. He is always going to do everything it takes to make a play. It's just who he is. Nothing coaches or teammates do will change that IMO. 

    Saw this stat cited in another thread.

Josh has been under pressure not solely due to the O line but they have played a large part.

    The play calling and the design of the offense have also contributed.

    In no universe is Allen not in a better position with a better O line and an O that isn’t predicated on him pulling rabbits out of his hat but that has an above average rushing attack which uses RBs and not him.

    This  doesn’t change him or his ability to scramble and improvise it simply puts him in a better position.

[Warcodered]

17 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Shows the difference between drafting for immediate need(Ford)..........and taking the BPA(Brown).

 

The Ford pick should have been DK Metcalf............but Brown is an athletic freak at RT that is similar to how Metcalf was testing.     Brown tested thru the roof for a tackle.

 

 

I think part of the thinking there was if he couldn't make it at tackle he'd still be a really good guard, turned out neither of those things has been true.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

    Saw this stat cited in another thread.

Josh has been under pressure not solely due to the O line but they have played a large part.

    The play calling and the design of the offense have also contributed.

    In no universe is Allen not in a better position with a better O line and an O that isn’t predicated on him pulling rabbits out of his hat but that has an above average rushing attack which uses RBs and not him.

    This  doesn’t change him or his ability to scramble and improvise it simply puts him in a better position.

 

Oh for the most part this year the oline has been a mess. No debate from me on that. That wasn't my argument at all. My point was simply you cited a play where the oline did a great job as evidence of them doing a poor job. 

[BillsShredder83]

2 hours ago, BearNorth said:

Why that never wrong oracle PFF.  I see 311 on the Bills website.

I think regardless of what his real weight is, he puts on another solid 15-20. He has the frame to handle it by farrrrrrrrr.  With strength coordinator, state of the art facility, access to the best food on the planet, dietician, there really isnt a rookie, at any position, that shouldnt put on some weight after their first season.... exception being they came in fat, diff story there.

[appoo]

37 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

I think Davis will be gone before we pick at #32 as well, but just saying.

 

A month or so ago, I agreed that we would look CB early, and we still might. However, since then, our Defense hasnt missed a beat with Tre gone and Wallace and Jackson stepping up. Taron is locked into the Nickel spot, so we are good there. And already have some depth with Lewis and even Neal.

 

Re-sign Wallace, and I don't see a need to spend a 1st on CB. I'd rather dedicate early picks to the trenches. Get WR and DB depth later.

 

I especially don't think we need TWO early CBs. We're 4 good starters deep right now.

I think Wallace and Dane have proven to be acceptable against average NFL passing attacks. Tre tore his ACL against the Saints. Since then:

 

NE (Wind Game N/A)

Tampa (1), Brady ,elite WRs - 383, 2 TDs

Carolina (29), Cam, average WRs  - 156 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT

NE (14), Mac, poor WRs - 145, 2 INT

ATL (16), Ryan, elite TE, poor WRs - 197

NYJ (20), Blondie, poor WRs - 87, 1 TD

NE (14), Mac, poor WRs - 232, 2 TDs, 2 INTs

 

You have to give these guys credit for playing well against average to poor opposition, but that Bucs game was interesting - for a half they played their worst football, for another half some of their best in the secondary. But reality is that haven't played against good QBs or WRs other than the Tampa game since Tre went down.