Bates: "I'm a f***n chicken wing" and other Wild Card highlights in a great Ringer article ...

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

6 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Ahhh mis-read and therefore misunderstood.  I completely agree with you on both areas that Bates is better than both Ike and Mongo.  And that Ike isnt good enough and why I think we needed two OGs in the offseason.  Bates emergence now has me thinking I not longer need 2 starters, and With how WIlliams has been as well for the past 5 weeks I might not even need another OG starter, but I think I still would like to replace williams right now.

I thought he was fine at Center, and why I was ok with the re-signing to play Center as well.  But this year he has highly regressed.

 

 

Really have to wonder if everything is due to this weight loss which appeared to not be team suggested.

 

Actually I was having the same thoughts too on where to go with the O-line for next year.  Likely let Mongo go, but to let either Williams or Morse go when you add in their cap hits, the replacement cost may not be worthwhile.  I'd certainly draft an interior lineman who can play center and guard to become the starting center in 2023 and a backup for 2022. 

 

Certainly signing a top level FA guard to replace Williams as the starter would be worthwhile and then let Bates and Williams fight it out for other starting guard spot and loser becomes the backup plus a rookie too would be an improvement, but is the cost worth it as opposed to putting the money elsewhere.  If they were in good shape with money I'd sao do it, but with limited $$ is it worth it??

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

 

Really have to wonder if everything is due to this weight loss which appeared to not be team suggested.

 

Actually I was having the same thoughts too on where to go with the O-line for next year.  Likely let Mongo go, but to let either Williams or Morse go when you add in their cap hits, the replacement cost may not be worthwhile.  I'd certainly draft an interior lineman who can play center and guard to become the starting center in 2023 and a backup for 2022. 

 

Certainly signing a top level FA guard to replace Williams as the starter would be worthwhile and then let Bates and Williams fight it out for other starting guard spot and loser becomes the backup plus a rookie too would be an improvement, but is the cost worth it as opposed to putting the money elsewhere.  If they were in good shape with money I'd sao do it, but with limited $$ is it worth it??

Yep agree.  See I was starting to look at the Schreff or Norwells for one UFA (Top end Starter) and a Draft for the Center and other OG.  But with Bates if he can secure where we are happy with the LG play.  I no longer need to look at 12M AAV to a LG.  With WIlliams on contract and his play over the last 5 weeks (AT RG) I now can draft and develop instead of Buying.  Key though is Doyle to develop into a Swing OT.  I do not want the answer to an INJ causing a impact at 2 positions at the OL.  Example if Brown or Dawkins misses a game it should NOT require the team to change at Both the Injured OT position AND the RG (because your defacto swing is your starting RG).

[Buffalo Barbarian]

10 hours ago, Commish said:

https://www.theringer.com/nfl-playoffs/2022/1/17/22887479/winners-and-losers-wild-card-weekend-bills-bengals-cowboys-49ers

 

Mods, move if you must, but where?

 

 

 

HELL YEAH !!!

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

He was an extra o lineman per Murphy on the call

 

 

 

LOL "Thicc six"

 

[Numark3]

5 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Just because you "think" that's your best starting five doesn't mean it actually is. We are talking about the same guy who though benching Tyrod for Peterman was a great idea.

 

Sometimes a guy who never gets an opportunity to show what he can do in games plays exceptionally well once he does, which is the case with Bates.

 

Moreso than him just playing well in a vacuum, he plays exceptionally well in tandem with the other lineman in regards to picking up stunts, T-E games, passing players off, pulling, etc...it is no accident the Bills have turned into one of the best rushing teams in the NFL since he has been in there, averaging over 163 yards a game in their last 6 games and over 192 yards a game in their last 3.

you know the bills traded for bates, an undrafted free agent?

 

you know the bills developed him for two years?

 

you know they inserted him into the lineup and he has found instant success?

 

maybe, JUST MAYBE, the bills identified a player they liked, developed him, and then played him when he was ready?  And that they deserve a ridiculous amount of praise for doing so?

 

rather than….. “durrrrr why didn’t dah bills play the undrafted player (that I never heard of) sooner.  Dumb dumb McDermott.” 

Edited January 17, 2022 by Crayola64

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, Crayola64 said:

you know the bills traded for bates, an undrafted free agent?

 

you know the bills developed him for two years?

 

you know they inserted him into the lineup and he has found instant success?

 

maybe, JUST MAYBE, the bills identified a player they liked, developed him, and then played him when he was ready?  And that they deserve a ridiculous amount of praise for doing so?

 

rather than….. “durrrrr why didn’t dah bills play the undrafted player (that I never heard of) sooner.  Dumb dumb McDermott.” 

 

Except McDermott admitted he didn't play Bates until a last resort because he didn't want him potentially getting hurt since he could play all positions on the line.

[BigAl2526]

McDermott was always hesitant to make Bates a starter because of his versatility.  I'm glad he finally gave in to the philosophy of playing the 5 best guys.  The off season is going to be interesting for the offensive line.  Buffalo could decide to keep the same 5 starters.  If they don't, Morse would seem to be the guy who could lose his spot to a younger cheaper replacement (a draft pick?).  Otherwise, they still will need to address depth.  Doyle may be ready to play a legit swing tackle role.  Bottger is still going to be gimpy from his injury and he seems not to have a very high ceiling anyway.  Feliciano is also limited in his ability, and I don't know that Buffalo is happy with Cody Ford at this point.   I could see the Bills bringing in at least a couple new guys for the interior of the line, guys who could legitimately compete.

[Doc]

58 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

I also think watching Bates, I no longer have to address OG x2 at this point.  Maybe still on OG needed but not two 

 

Money will be tight.  I think they'll have to stick with the current group they have, all of whom are under contract except (not going to mention Hart) Bates (RFA) and Boettger, whose achilles injury probably spells the end of his time in Buffalo.

[Freddie's Dead]

6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Was Mongo in as an extra-  extra- OLman?  All the starters but Morse got 100% of the snaps, and Morse got 95% and only came out when Josh Allen did.

But Feliciano played 9% (2 more than that) and Doyle played 20% (11).  Even Cody Ford got a few snaps.

 

Ford's snaps were on the XP's.  His guy blocked one of them when he crashed down over Turd and leaped.  The Ford Report would have likely given him a D.

Edited January 17, 2022 by Freddie's Dead

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

2 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Yep agree.  See I was starting to look at the Schreff or Norwells for one UFA (Top end Starter) and a Draft for the Center and other OG.  But with Bates if he can secure where we are happy with the LG play.  I no longer need to look at 12M AAV to a LG.  With WIlliams on contract and his play over the last 5 weeks (AT RG) I now can draft and develop instead of Buying.  Key though is Doyle to develop into a Swing OT.  I do not want the answer to an INJ causing a impact at 2 positions at the OL.  Example if Brown or Dawkins misses a game it should NOT require the team to change at Both the Injured OT position AND the RG (because your defacto swing is your starting RG).

 

Yeah, think Doyle should be able to be a reliable swing tackle.  Bates is a RFA so should be able to sign him at least for the year, but maybe reward him with a multi year deal.  Draft a rookie, but do they still go out and sign a mid level guard who could start due to injury, but not paying him anywhere near $12 mil.  Let Ike walk and cut Mongo.

 

One position not mentioned is Morse.  Like Williams and Bates, 2 months ago would have cut him too, but lately playing very well.  Wouldn't keep him at the $11 mil he's due, but also costs $3.75 mil to cut.  Maybe you get Morse to take a pay cut down to $7 guaranteed or add a year on converted mostly to bonus money so he gets close to the $11 mil this season but cap hit is reduced. Give him $3 mil base guaranteed, $6 mil signing bonus so his cap hit is only $6 mil but he walked away with $9 mil in his pocket this year, then in 2023 they cut him and only have a $3 mil cap hit when they likely have more money to play with.  To me that's better than taking his cap hit this year of close to $4 mil then paying more money for a replacement.  There's also talk of him retiring after this year so who knows.

[Heavy Kevi]

"All those tables died so Bills Mafia could watch their beautiful centaur of a QB lead Buffalo to glory, soaring past the Patriots through a cascade of dildos raining down from the stands."

 

Omfg 😂

[Bob in STL]

3 hours ago, Crayola64 said:

you know the bills traded for bates, an undrafted free agent?

 

you know the bills developed him for two years?

 

you know they inserted him into the lineup and he has found instant success?

 

maybe, JUST MAYBE, the bills identified a player they liked, developed him, and then played him when he was ready?  And that they deserve a ridiculous amount of praise for doing so?

 

rather than….. “durrrrr why didn’t dah bills play the undrafted player (that I never heard of) sooner.  Dumb dumb McDermott.” 

Great post.  
 

The Bills do what the Sabres fail miserably at.  Player Development.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

Ford's snaps were on the XP's.  His guy blocked one of them when he crashed down over Turd and leaped.  The Ford Report would have likely given him a D.

 

I could be wrong but I think XP snaps are counted as ST snaps.  Ford had 7 of 'em along with Feliciano.

 

Ford also is logged as having 3 offensive snaps.  Can't tell ya where or why, but the only OLman who didn't play 100% of the snaps was Morse, and he came out when Allen did.

4 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Except McDermott admitted he didn't play Bates until a last resort because he didn't want him potentially getting hurt since he could play all positions on the line.

 

Linky?  'Cuz I never heard that.  The presser I heard said "there were a variety of reasons" why he hasn't been playing.

[MAJBobby]

3 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Yeah, think Doyle should be able to be a reliable swing tackle.  Bates is a RFA so should be able to sign him at least for the year, but maybe reward him with a multi year deal.  Draft a rookie, but do they still go out and sign a mid level guard who could start due to injury, but not paying him anywhere near $12 mil.  Let Ike walk and cut Mongo.

 

One position not mentioned is Morse.  Like Williams and Bates, 2 months ago would have cut him too, but lately playing very well.  Wouldn't keep him at the $11 mil he's due, but also costs $3.75 mil to cut.  Maybe you get Morse to take a pay cut down to $7 guaranteed or add a year on converted mostly to bonus money so he gets close to the $11 mil this season but cap hit is reduced. Give him $3 mil base guaranteed, $6 mil signing bonus so his cap hit is only $6 mil but he walked away with $9 mil in his pocket this year, then in 2023 they cut him and only have a $3 mil cap hit when they likely have more money to play with.  To me that's better than taking his cap hit this year of close to $4 mil then paying more money for a replacement.  There's also talk of him retiring after this year so who knows.

I think Morse is a prime candidate for a restructure adding years to lower cap. What worried me about him though his play dipped earlier in the season I wonder if that was more than OG play at this point. 
 

so extend him add years (not to many with the concussion history on him). And look for that mid round center this year to start development with so when the extension is up you have a groomed Center on a rookie deal to move in. 
 

or like OC did this offseason with Humphrey draft a Center early plug him in and move on from Morse in summer if need be. Without the extension. 
 

I just have not really started digging into the draft to see if there are any centers that are plug and play. 

[MAJBobby]

What is telling a bit to me. 
 

when Josh Allen was Pulled in NE for Trubisky. Morse was pulled with him. That tells me the value the Bills put on Morse to pull your starting Center while in Victory Formation. 

[jkeerie]

14 hours ago, Magox said:

I remember reading camp reports about Bates a couple years back when he joined the team that there was inside chatter about the Bills brass being hopeful about his prospects for being a big contributor to the team and how they loved his versatility.    It somewhat surprised me that he kept getting overlooked and surpassed by other interior lineman for any of the starting roles and now that he has gotten his chance he is playing as well as any interior lineman we have had in a while.

 

He’s been a revelation, he is very mobile and is an excellent pulling guard and seems to hold his own at the point of attack.     I don’t know if this is just a great 5-6 game stretch where he is playing above what he is or if this is what we should come to expect.  If this is the level of play that he can continue then he could be the long-term starter.    
 

The offensive line right now is playing at a very high level, which I believe is one of the big reasons the Bills are in their 5 game win streak.

Management finally learned to set aside draft status or contract numbers and play the best 5 O linemen.   They gave those other guys every opportunity.  You finally have to admit you judged incorrectly and do what's best for the team.

[Golden]

14 hours ago, Magox said:

I remember reading camp reports about Bates a couple years back when he joined the team that there was inside chatter about the Bills brass being hopeful about his prospects for being a big contributor to the team and how they loved his versatility.    It somewhat surprised me that he kept getting overlooked and surpassed by other interior lineman for any of the starting roles and now that he has gotten his chance he is playing as well as any interior lineman we have had in a while.

 

He’s been a revelation, he is very mobile and is an excellent pulling guard and seems to hold his own at the point of attack.     I don’t know if this is just a great 5-6 game stretch where he is playing above what he is or if this is what we should come to expect.  If this is the level of play that he can continue then he could be the long-term starter.    
 

The offensive line right now is playing at a very high level, which I believe is one of the big reasons the Bills are in their 5 game win streak.

Ryan Bates is the “anti Wyatt Teller”after we let him go 👍

[Golden]

4 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Yeah, think Doyle should be able to be a reliable swing tackle.  Bates is a RFA so should be able to sign him at least for the year, but maybe reward him with a multi year deal.  Draft a rookie, but do they still go out and sign a mid level guard who could start due to injury, but not paying him anywhere near $12 mil.  Let Ike walk and cut Mongo.

 

One position not mentioned is Morse.  Like Williams and Bates, 2 months ago would have cut him too, but lately playing very well.  Wouldn't keep him at the $11 mil he's due, but also costs $3.75 mil to cut.  Maybe you get Morse to take a pay cut down to $7 guaranteed or add a year on converted mostly to bonus money so he gets close to the $11 mil this season but cap hit is reduced. Give him $3 mil base guaranteed, $6 mil signing bonus so his cap hit is only $6 mil but he walked away with $9 mil in his pocket this year, then in 2023 they cut him and only have a $3 mil cap hit when they likely have more money to play with.  To me that's better than taking his cap hit this year of close to $4 mil then paying more money for a replacement.  There's also talk of him retiring after this year so who knows.

Good info 👍. I’m curious to see how Williams/ Morse/ Bates perform against Chris Jones.