Offensive Line

[klos63]

29 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I meant through the draft.  That 2nd Round Pick people were banging on the table for a RB would probably be much better used on IOL.  
 

I think this off-season is probably much like last… just re-signing our own guys. 

and draft BPA

[entropyrules]

After seeing the O line improvement over the last several games I am wondering where the Bills medical staff is keeping those seed pods and how they are slipping them under the O line beds before they go to sleep

[Doc]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

I meant through the draft.  That 2nd Round Pick people were banging on the table for a RB would probably be much better used on IOL.  
 

I think this off-season is probably much like last… just re-signing our own guys. 

 

Gotcha.  Yeah, I don't think RB is a priority after spending 2-3rd rounders and with the resurgence of the OL.  Unless a stud falls.  I think CB will have to be the first pick.

[Old Coot]

The O line should get a game ball for this win.  They gave Josh time to work his magic and opened some holes for Motor, to say nothing of those pulling center plays.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

12 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

i was going to post something similar. It’s not just the interior play either— both tackles have been playing so much better also. 
 

I think you have scheme and talent and execution coming together at the same time. 
 

(Don’t think they had a single penalty on them either). 

 

Dawkins getting Covid a second time seemed to have cured him!  Playing great ever since.

[Dont Stop Billeiving]

Morse matching McKenzie stride for stride on the sweep to the right was a sight to behold.

 

From left to right, Dawkins appears to be finally recovered from COVID and back to the player we're used to seeing. Bates has been a revelation and shored up our weakest link on the line. The emergence of more pin-and-pull runs has brought out the best in Morse. Williams has been steady. And you have to think that every day that passes, those twin mountains of raw athleticism in Spencer Brown and Tommy Doyle are just going to get better and better. 

 

Draft an IOL on Day 2 to eventually replace Morse and/or Williams whenever that time comes and I'd say we're in pretty good shape. 

[The Frankish Reich]

1. Offensive line play is something that can typically be fixed during the course of a season. Sometimes it's new personnel (Bates), new blocking schemes, and/or new offensive strategy in general; typically it's a combination of all of the above. 

2. Coaches tend to overvalue mediocre/replacement level players.* Feliciano, Ford, Boettger: all poor performers this year. The value of continuity is often less than the value of improved individual performance. Daboll was kind of dragged into trying new personnel by injuries. Not surprisingly, the result was better play.

 

*As a kind of test, I've been informally tracking the performance of classic replacement-level QBs - guys signed off the street and forced into action due to injury/COVID, etc. We've seen a few this year (Josh Johnson, Garrett Gilbert) and of course many over the last decade or so (Thad Lewis anyone?). Typically there either is no clear drop-off in performance from the nominal starter, or not much of a drop-off. Small sample, but highly suggestive of my proposition: we overvalue mediocrity.

 

 

 

[FarrellsFinest]

It makes you wonder why this staff didnt give him a shot when the interrior oline was struggling so bad? Concerning to me. 

[HamptonBillsfan]

Who are these guys? This line is opening holes for Motor and Josh, giving the protection Josh needs to pick teams apart and imposing their will on good defenses. All credit must go to O-line coaches and the lineman who have taken responsibility for this offense being successful. 

[LyndonvilleBill]

3 minutes ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

Who are these guys? This line is opening holes for Motor and Josh, giving the protection Josh needs to pick teams apart and imposing their will on good defenses. All credit must go to O-line coaches and the lineman who have taken responsibility for this offense being successful. 

Maybe Johnson has been reading this board and said "Crap, I better fix it or I'll get fired"!😁

[HamptonBillsfan]

5 minutes ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

Maybe Johnson has been reading this board and said "Crap, I better fix it or I'll get fired"!😁

Whatever he's doing, it's working. It's like we finally have defenses having to protect against runs by our backs and that's giving Josh time to find all these receiving options. The check downs are even wide open. 

[Doc]

They’ve made quite a few errors with respect to the offensive line: drafting Cody, trading Teller, cutting Spain, passing on Humphrey and waiting to start Bates.  Hopefully those things are in the past.

[SoCal Deek]

I mentioned this earlier. Something’s definitely changed with the O Line. This isn’t due to the RBs. Both the pass protection and run blocking have improved tremendously, and all of it without a single free agent signing or trickery. I’m guessing they’ve finally got these five guys in their five correct spots. It took most of the season but I’m glad they got it sorted out. After locking up Dawkins. and Willams (after what they thought were the two tackle spots) it’s an outright gift that Spencer Brown appears to be an outstanding RT for years to come on a rookie contract.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

16 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

Having Tommy Doyle next to Spencer Brown and Darryl Williams in those extra OL sets doesn’t hurt either! But yes, Bates is awesome. I would argue that he is a better player than Feliciano and Boettger 100%.

 

Wish the coaches would have figured this out sooner

 

 

[Bangarang]

Is Ryan Bates a potential long term solution at LG?
 

I’d still like to see us draft someone in the first 3 rounds though if possible. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

17 hours ago, AlfaBill said:

OL needs a nickname. 
 

 

 

not yet, need more time of consistency

 

 

16 hours ago, Doc said:

Maybe they've been saving this for the playoffs?  4D chess, ya know?

 

Maybe but i doubt it. I just think at halftime of the Tampa game coach said we are going to be aggressive from now on and now we are showing our potential.

 

 

[The Frankish Reich]

22 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Is Ryan Bates a potential long term solution at LG?

No. I mean, I don't think so.

The dreaded PFF grades this year for our Guards:

Feliciano 59.7

Boettger 59.8

Ford 47.4

Bates 64

 

I didn't include Williams because it looks like the only score I have access to blends his snaps at T and G. But FYI he's at 67.5.

 

I use PFF because it's readily available, not because it's authoritative in any way. But this basically agrees with the eye test.

We found a guy playing at an adequate level (Bates) - kind of a B-/C+ type level of PFF's scale - who filled in for guys playing at a replacement (D) or sub-replacement (F) level. That makes you better right away. It doesn't mean it makes you set for the future.

 

EDIT: I guess I should say that you can't be above average everywhere and still under the cap. If Morse retires, Bates could move to C. I don't know what to say about his skills as a C, but if he can handle that move he'd be perfectly adequate. Dawkins got stronger/better as the season went on, Brown got much better as he got a little experience, and Williams looks better suited to play at RG than RT. So maybe, just maybe you've got 4 good performers coming back with Feliciano as a perfectly acceptable C/G backup. If you can sign/draft one plus performer that's a pretty good O line after all. And who knows, Doyle may be more than an offensive lineman reporting as eligible ... 

Edited January 16, 2022 by The Frankish Reich

[london_bills]

Great thread, I was wondering what the changes were here other than Bates being in the line up

[ganesh]

6 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Gotcha.  Yeah, I don't think RB is a priority after spending 2-3rd rounders and with the resurgence of the OL.  Unless a stud falls.  I think CB will have to be the first pick.

I think the Bills still lack speed and size.  They need a back like Henry who can pound the DL to submission especially in the playoffs.   I hope they invest a mid round pick as Moss appears to be not the answer.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Watch the blocking at the bottom. Bates, Morse, Williams, and Brown. 

 

Edited January 17, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede