My case for Trubisky to the Colts

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

What in the world happened to him?  He was a leading MVP candidate in 2017 before getting hurt and has just fallen off a cliff since.

 

I don't know but his mechanics and his decision making are brutal. There were third downs on Sunday where the Colts had open guys beyond the sticks and Wentz was just trying to hurl it 60 yards. He nearly hit Campbell on one of them and everyone was like "wow almost such a great play." He had a guy open at the sticks for a 1st down.

1 minute ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

They got a historic season out of Taylor and couldn't even get baseline competence out of the QB.  How do they improve on it other than hoping Wentz miraculously gets better?

 

I honestly don't know. Spend the 2nd on the kid from Liberty? Or the kid from Nevada? And then pray that works out? Or spend that 2nd on another receiver? The Eason thing failed as a mid round shot to nothing. I have no idea. Jimmy G? If he shakes free? Trade a 2nd for him? 

 

I don't have a good solution.

[BeastMaster]

I could see MT being brought in to battle Wentz for the job.

 

Wentz will be on the roster next season...barring a cap issue where they need to make room and they get a guy like MT at a significantly less salary than what Carson would make

[Chicken Boo]

I would hope Reich is smart enough to swing for the fences or stand pat.  Trubisky is a lateral move.

 

They'd be better off going after Matt Ryan in a trade.

[MJS]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

Wentz got a terrible team to the playoffs in 2019. Wentz also didn’t have the benefit of the best defense in the NFL.
 

I could see them signing Mitch and Mitch not beating out Wentz for the job. The dude was drafted 1 year after Wentz, he’s hardly close to his rookie year.

Wentz is playing nothing like he used to, though. I'm not totally sure what happened to him, but he isn't the same player anymore.

[FireChans]

18 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't know but his mechanics and his decision making are brutal. There were third downs on Sunday where the Colts had open guys beyond the sticks and Wentz was just trying to hurl it 60 yards. He nearly hit Campbell on one of them and everyone was like "wow almost such a great play." He had a guy open at the sticks for a 1st down.

 

I honestly don't know. Spend the 2nd on the kid from Liberty? Or the kid from Nevada? And then pray that works out? Or spend that 2nd on another receiver? The Eason thing failed as a mid round shot to nothing. I have no idea. Jimmy G? If he shakes free? Trade a 2nd for him? 

 

I don't have a good solution.

The kid from Liberty won't make it out of the first. He will be a late riser in the draft process.

[Alphadawg7]

54 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I think Wentz will be the starter. He shouldn't be. He is terrible. But Frank Reich loves him and isn't moving off him for another placeholder type like Trubisky and they don't have a 1st round pick to draft a guy or trade for one.

 

The Wentz fascination could get Frank fired IMO.

 

But did you see where Reich declined to commit to Wentz the day after the loss?  I mean, if this is as strong and true as some suggest, he would have immediately squashed any possible speculation right then and there and gave Wentz a vote of confidence.  

 

That is telling to me, especially given Reichs history and bond with him.  Reich to me is too good of a coach to blindly hitch his horse to one wagon no matter what.  And its not only up to Reich either, the GM can still bring in competition regardless as well as they really have nothing behind Wentz anyway.

[Max Fischer]

1 hour ago, Utah John said:

As if it's that easy.  The curse of Elway continues.  He can't find a good QB to come in and lead the team.  He did bring in a broken-down Peyton Manning who was able to succeed but only with Denver's powerful defense.  Before then and since then it's been a string of failures.  

 

Putting aside your axe to grind with Elway, in no way did I characterize Daboll to Denver as "easy." Denver has a path but that doesn't speak to chances for success. 

[GunnerBill]

25 minutes ago, FireChans said:

The kid from Liberty won't make it out of the first. He will be a late riser in the draft process.

 

That wouldn't shock me. Toolsy. 

[dave mcbride]

47 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't know but his mechanics and his decision making are brutal. There were third downs on Sunday where the Colts had open guys beyond the sticks and Wentz was just trying to hurl it 60 yards. He nearly hit Campbell on one of them and everyone was like "wow almost such a great play." He had a guy open at the sticks for a 1st down.

 

I honestly don't know. Spend the 2nd on the kid from Liberty? Or the kid from Nevada? And then pray that works out? Or spend that 2nd on another receiver? The Eason thing failed as a mid round shot to nothing. I have no idea. Jimmy G? If he shakes free? Trade a 2nd for him? 

 

I don't have a good solution.

Garrapalo would do well in that offense. 

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

But did you see where Reich declined to commit to Wentz the day after the loss?  I mean, if this is as strong and true as some suggest, he would have immediately squashed any possible speculation right then and there and gave Wentz a vote of confidence.  

 

That is telling to me, especially given Reichs history and bond with him.  Reich to me is too good of a coach to blindly hitch his horse to one wagon no matter what.  And its not only up to Reich either, the GM can still bring in competition regardless as well as they really have nothing behind Wentz anyway.

 

I did. I just think when they sit down and look at their options it will be "Wentz or other failed former starters" and I very strongly believe Reich would be a better the devil he knows guy. Look at where he has gone post Luck - Rivers and Wentz. He likes guys he knows. Don't get me wrong if they could draft a stud QB or get a Russell Wilson (or even as I said above a Jimmy G) in a trade they'd do it. I don't see him moving off Wentz for someone of a similar profile. 

Edited January 11, 2022 by GunnerBill

[dave mcbride]

Wow - Jimmy G's career ypa average is 8.4. That is insanely good. Talk about underrated players ... https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GaroJi00.htm

[Buffalo Boy]

2 hours ago, 947 said:

There's no guarantee that Trubisky would be any better than Wentz. The Bears did make the playoffs with Mitch, but not BECAUSE of him.

 

What Wentz did in 2017 blows away anything Trubisky has ever done, he would've been MVP if not for the injury. I know Wentz is not the same player anymore, but it least he once was that player. In Chicago, Trubisky was not a complete QB. He had issues reading coverages, and Nagy was using half-field reads at times to make it easier. I think Mitch will be better after his time with Daboll & Josh, but I can't see him going anywhere next year & being a top-15 QB. I think he's great as a backup, but I doubt any coach/GM is going to tie their job security solely to him.

Have you seen the Rhule and Darnold show?

Never underestimate the outcome of desperation coupled with coaching ego.

[SF Bills Fan]

If Daboll is name HC somewhere, that is where Mitch will be starting. 

[Solomon Grundy]

56 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

I would hope Reich is smart enough to swing for the fences or stand pat.  Trubisky is a lateral move.

 

They'd be better off going after Matt Ryan in a trade.

Would be smart

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

What in the world happened to him?  He was a leading MVP candidate in 2017 before getting hurt and has just fallen off a cliff since.

 

I can answer that question...2 things are at play:

1. People tend to take a short stretch of a persons career, over exaggerated it and try and believe thats the real them while ignoring the vast majority of their career data.  
2. His 2017 continues to be a thing of lore and over exaggeration.  Its not as special as people seem to want to believe.  Good season, yes...but wasn't that special.  It was more about him being a 2nd year QB doing that then it being some unmatched season.
   1. In 13 games, he had 33 TD's putting him on pace for 40.  He only had 7 INT's at that point, putting him on pace for about 10, BUT he had 9 more fumbles too, something he has been terrible at his whole career.  He was also only completing 60.2% of his passes that year and only had 3296 yards passing, putting him on pace to barely reach 4000 yards.
   2. Based on his averages up to that point...his final season would have been about 4100 yards, 40 total TD's, 10 INT's, 15 Fumbles (4 or 5 lost), with a comp percentage of 60.2%.  Not only would that NOT have even been contention the last 2 seasons for MVP, if Josh Allen had that same season it would have been labeled a down year and regression. 

It was literally one part of a season all the way back in 2017 and he is still living off that reputation despite his play not backing it up.  Its not about what happened, its more about he was playing above his mean (compared to his career) for part of a season and that stretch being remembered as more than it really was.  

 

I mean, honestly this has happened many times before, and not just for QB's, players at various positions having great success for a stretch of a season, a playoff run, even a full season but never duplicating that again.  Eagles alone have seen this...Foles had one crazy season as good or better than Wentz, went on to be the QB of the Rams and never was good again...except for one brief stretch again with the Eagles where he took over for Wentz and won them a SB where he out dueled a 500 yard Tom Brady in the SB...and then went right back to sucking again.  

 

Carr also had an MVP like season before getting hurt 2/3rds of the way, was never that good before and never that good again either.  

 

So for me, anytime anyone brings up that one stretch all the way back in 2017, I just kind of sigh because he has more time on the field both before and after that stretch suggesting that was more of an anomaly than than who he really is.  

Edited January 11, 2022 by Alphadawg7

[Alphadawg7]

59 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

(or even as I said above a Jimmy G) in a trade they'd do it. 

 

My fiance loves the 49ers...so I have seen a lot of Niners games, was even at the game Sunday when they beat the Rams.  Jimmy G, regardless of statistics, is not very good to me.  He makes a lot of terrible throws and decisions.  He is flat out soft too.  Most Niner fans, including her, can't wait for the Jimmy G era to end, although they still feel he gives the team the better chance to win today as Lance is not ready.  

 

He lacks mobility, his arm isn't very strong, and he can be delusional with an utter lack of accountability when he doesn't play well.  He also just seems to lack that drive to be great and isn't known to be a student of the game type guy.

[FilthyBeast]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

Wentz is playing nothing like he used to, though. I'm not totally sure what happened to him, but he isn't the same player anymore.

 

Wentz is the perfect of example of why you should never jump the gun to sign a young QB until they prove they are for real and deliver consistent results over multiple seasons.

 

He was great his first few years, particularly the season the Eagles won the SB and he was the clear cut league MVP favorite that year before being his season ending injury towards the end of the regular season.

 

Not saying this because I'm still very critical of Allen's deal and his own long term viability, but Wentz is a true cautionary tale among many other similar cases.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

4 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

I hate the situation for Frank Reich …. As his team would be scary with an above average QB.

 

The suggested scenario is highly likely as Wentz is as good as gone. 

I feel like he deserves at least some of the criticism for his team feeling confident they could roll with Carson wentz in the offseason.    

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

4 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Let me be clear from the start, I have no evidence of any Trubisky interest by the Colts, this is just something I am personally speculating on as I think it makes a lot of sense personally for both the Colts and Trubisky.  Admittedly, I hope it does NOT happen, as I don't want to see the Colts get better lmao.  

 

Why it makes sense to me:  Trubisky isn't going to draw a lot of interest from rebuilding teams IMO unless its on a cheap deal to hold a seat warm for a rookie because those teams are likely turning to the draft for a QB.  There is also still Watson and of course possibly Rodgers that could be available too, not to mention the speculation that Wilson could be someone to keep an eye on.  With the Colts run game, they don't need to try and pursue cap choking big ticket QB's like those guys.  

 

Someone like Trubisky, who was able to get the Bears into the playoffs twice despite little offensive talent around him, a bad OL, and a terrible Coach and front office could come into Indy and help right the ship immediately.  And, it wouldn't likely need to be a big financial or cap risk either as the market for Trubisky isn't going to be expensive giving them flexibility to go in another direction quickly if its not working out.  

 

The case against Carson Wentz is pretty clear
 

Eagles:  

1.  Gets hurt, Eagles go on a run with Foles and win the SB.
2.  Eagles last year with Wentz…no playoffs.  This year without him…in the playoffs.

 

Colts:  

1.  Made playoffs without him last year.  
2. This year with him (and an 1800 rusher and MVP candidate in Taylor)…miss playoffs. 
 

And in a must win game to make the playoffs, his QBR was a pitiful (and Nathan Peterman like) 4.4 lmao...yes 4.4 out of 100.  Reich also apparently declined to commit to Wentz a day after the loss too.  Which is telling given they had history before this season that led to him wanting Wentz there in the first place. 

So what do you guys think...created poll asking if you thought Wentz would be the starter next year or not, and what you think the chances Trubisky ends up there to either start or at least compete with Wentz to start.  

 

 

 

 

Makes sense in certain ways if the Colts decide to give Wentz one more year.  You then aren't going to bring in a guy like Wilson, or Rodgers, but you want someone who some ability as the backup in case Wentz falters.  You don't want his backup to be a Matt Barkley type.  Based on what happened in Philly you also may not want to draft someone in the 1st round either as that  is rumored to be some of the issues with Wentz in Philly.  Plus Indy is drafting late enough and not a real strong QB class anyway.  If they decide to move on from Wentz, then think they may look for someone better than Trubisky.

 

I'm not so sure about the Trubisky and Daboll together rumors either.  Think is Daboll gets a HC job, wouldn't want to tie my fate to Trubisky.

[FilthyBeast]

Just now, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I feel like he deserves at least some of the criticism for his team feeling confident they could roll with Carson wentz in the offseason.    

 

There are rumors he still may be canned in the coming days but I think that would be a mistake despite failing to win just one game against the Raiders/Jags which would have clinched a playoff spot.

 

He's proven to be a good head coach and has essentially had a different starting QB every year since being there. Certainly he will probably be on a very hot seat in 2022 to get back to the postseason though.