Falcons DC Dean Pees calls young NFL coaches “entitled” and “spoiled”

[No_Matter_What]

6 hours ago, WhoTom said:

I don't know - I get an "old man yells at cloud" feeling from his little tirade.

 

He creates a false dichotomy with respect to analytics by assuming that the only thing the coach looks at is the spreadsheet. I'm sure they're taking into consideration the weather conditions, how the offense and defense are playing, who's on the other side of the ball, etc. It's not an either/or between those factors and analytics - they're just adding the analytics to the equation.

 

Back in my day, we didn't dis other coaches. 🙂

 

Yeah unfortunately I don't think he understands what analytics means. Somebody should tell him that weather/score can be easily accounted for.

 

Again, this reminds me of my poker days. You could explain all the maths to some old school live players and they would argue some nonsense based on their limited experience.

[WhoTom]

1 hour ago, That's No Moon said:

The fact that there are also plenty of people who are more than happy to dismiss what Pees said as an old man talking nonsense about a world that no longer exists are way too quick to dismiss the part he was mentioning about connecting with human beings. That is as skill that a lot of the current generation definitely lacks. Getting people to buy in and pull in the same direction is a skill unto itself and isn't reflected in the spreadsheets either. You hear it in Buffalo when McDermott talks about "culture" and "process".  That's what they are talking about.

 

I agree with him on the need to build connections - I was just referring to the analytics comment.

[TBBills]

6 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

He's afraid younger guys are going to take his job? He's been a great DC for 15 years. He retired and came back because Arthur Smith asked him... and he loved working with Arthur Smith. He didn't NEED to come back. 

 

Easier doesn't necessarily mean better and easier doesn't necessarily mean you learn as much. Nowhere does he say you need to line a field to be a good coordinator... he says it makes you appreciate what you're doing more. He's spot on - having to start at the bottom makes you FAR more aware of everything going on around you when you get to the top. Being able to relate to the last guy on your staff makes a world of difference. He's not saying analytics are bad... he's saying they're not the only thing.

 

Relationships > Analytics 

 

I'm a 20-something working in professional sports that agrees with everything that he says... I guess I'm an old man. 

You do sound like an old man even though you say your "20-something"... which is odd to say. Like you forgot the second digit of your age.

 

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by TBBills

[JGMcD2]

19 minutes ago, TBBills said:

You do sound like an old man even though you say your "20-something"... which is odd to say. Like you forgot the second digit of your age.

 

 

It has nothing to do with change? A majority of these analytical concepts are concepts that have been around in their specific sports for decades. There’s just additional context and ability to track things. 
 

The irony is that most of the older coaches I’ve spent time around, genuinely want to learn about the new concepts. They ask questions, try to learn and do their best to incorporate the concepts.
 

My generation generally does the opposite. They think they know it all, don’t give a ***** about what the guys with decades worth of experience have to say and just steamroll over everyone for their own personal gain. 
 

24 if you really care THAT much. 

[TBBills]

6 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

It has nothing to do with change? A majority of these analytical concepts are concepts that have been around in their specific sports for decades. There’s just additional context and ability to track things. 
 

The irony is that most of the older coaches I’ve spent time around, genuinely want to learn about the new concepts. They ask questions, try to learn and do their best to incorporate the concepts.
 

My generation generally does the opposite. They think they know it all, don’t give a ***** about what the guys with decades worth of experience have to say and just steamroll over everyone for their own personal gain. 
 

24 if you really care THAT much. 

This is all a joke that you took too seriously... like old people would.  Not a good look.

[Matt_In_NH]

13 hours ago, JohnNord said:

There was some of that, for sure.  But I think his overall message that football or leadership is a “people business” made a lot of sense. 

 

Yeah I agree, it's a people business....but who specifically is he talking about, I guess he sees things with younger coaches where they are not able to speak in front of the team?   He talked about the zoom calls, are people actually making zoom calls vs in person because they cant be in front of the crowd or because of Covid?  I would not think that is the case in the NFL but maybe it is.  In general with how kids are raised nowadays along with the impacts of phones/technology, I believe what he is saying and I have observed the "I want to immediately move up the ladder before I have actually done anything" mentality at work, I am 46 so somewhere in the middle.   It's not all bad though, culture and society change...always has and  some of these leadership skills may develop a little later for some.   For a guy like Pease, I think he feels it's disrespectful, which it is.

 

NFL aside, if you look at the jobs situation/mass resignation, it's probably good kids are leaning forward and want to move up.   There will be some growing pains but my opinion is it will work itself out.  At the end of the day, people will sink or swim.

[DrDawkinstein]

17 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

My generation generally does the opposite. They think they know it all, don’t give a ***** about what the guys with decades worth of experience have to say and just steamroll over everyone for their own personal gain. 

 

24 if you really care THAT much. 

 

You just described literally EVERY generation of 20-somethings. It isn't specific to your generation at all.

 

Kids think they know more than they actually do. Old people think kids know less than they actually do.

 

It's the way it always is.

 

Has nothing to do with technology, or "this" generation, or anything else.

[Nextmanup]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

You just described literally EVERY generation of 20-somethings. It isn't specific to your generation at all.

 

Kids think they know more than they actually do. Old people think kids know less than they actually do.

 

It's the way it always is.

 

Has nothing to do with technology, or "this" generation, or anything else.

I agree.  I'm almost 51 now; not long ago (so it seems) I was the young kid in his 20s who knew everything.

My mental age is still around 25 near as I can tell.  I don't think of myself as being older at all.

 

What you describe is part of the circle of life I guess.

 

Where the 20-something SHOULD get blown into the weeds by the older guy is EXPERIENCE, for which there is no substitute.

 

 

[RaoulDuke79]

I agree in part, but if you're good at what you do dues or no dues, talent wins out.

[CoudyBills]

On 1/7/2022 at 3:17 PM, DrDawkinstein said:

"These long-haired hippy kids are all lazy bums!" -Great Generation on Boomers

 

"These grunge slackers are all lazy bums!" -Boomers on GenX

 

"These kids are all lazy, entitled bums!" -Gen x on Millennials

 

"These kids are all lazy, entitled bums!" -Millennials on Gen Z

 

Wheel in the sky keeps on turning...

And somehow they were all right

1 hour ago, RaoulDuke79 said:

I agree in part, but if you're good at what you do dues or no dues, talent wins out.

Yep, people work with others that don't respect them everyday.  Is what it is.

[Bruffalo]

I don't know how you can watch that and think that this guy this anything but a relic.  

 

He basically said "I don't understand all this computer/analytics stuff, so I ignore it because it's scary to me. Let me tell you about how I mowed a lawn".  As if that's a reasonable thing to say.

 

I can understand being a little salty about being leapfrogged, but these "entitled" young coaches are getting results and you're in a bottom tier organization with a defense that was basically a failure by most metrics. 

[reddogblitz]

On 1/7/2022 at 9:06 AM, gonzo1105 said:

part about it is I worked in the coaching world for a decade and its very much a not what you know business but a who you know business. I would almost guarantee Pees knew someone in the NFL that helped him get that job more so than on the merit of his work at Findlay College and Kent State

 

This is true of everything in life IMHO.  I worked 38 years in IT and it was the same there. I busted my hump with no connections to get my first job.   From there every better job I got was because I was good, but also cuz someone that worked there put in a good word for me, or they knew me already cuz I was in the business.  People wanna hire who they know. Just how life works.

[blacklabel]

He has some fair points about the analytics. But also, I don’t think there are coaches who are coaching and strategizing strictly under what the analytics tell him. It’s another gear to help move the machine forward, has to work in tandem with the other gears though. 
 

The entitled stuff kinda sounds like every older generation. You can’t write off every young guy with limited experience, though. Sometimes people figure their stuff out at a younger age. McVay is a good example of this. Didn’t have the most experience but his understanding and intelligence for the game was more than enough to make up for the lack of experience. As usual, his hiring started a trend where teams in need of a coach were looking for the next hotshot young coordinator. Happens every year. One year it’s the experienced guys who have had a head coaching gig before that get all the interviews, then next year it’s the coordinators looking for their first shot at HC, and then one year the trend is hiring coaches from college, etc, etc.  

 

There’s definitely something to be said for experience but you could also argue that the train is gonna pass you by while you’re out gaining experience and by the time your shot comes around you’ve fallen out of touch and your coaching style no longer relates to the players. I’d say any teams looking for a new head coach probably should find a balance of someone who does have experience but can also keep up with the constant change of the game and apply new age techniques with old school tried and true coaching methods. Something like that. 

[reddogblitz]

On 1/7/2022 at 9:31 AM, Jerome007 said:

Yep. Results matter. And most young coaches in the NFL seem to do pretty good. So they surely must be focused on other stuff than analytics... If young coaches were having dismal results, of course he'd have a point. But it's not the case.

 

What exactly have any of these young new fangled analytics driven coaches won?

[Southern_Bills]

On 1/7/2022 at 12:40 PM, Big Turk said:

 

For sure...young people are super entitled these days and have been for a while...they want the same perks and benefits on their first day as an employee who has been there for 15 years and has put in blood, sweat and tears for the company. Then they get upset when they are told it's not happening and you need to earn your stripes.

 

I've always hated this line of thought. You show up and in 3 months your better than 95% of the people in your capacity at the company, yet they don't want to honor it until you show "loyalty". 

 

They will drop you as soon as it makes business sense to do so, so why should you be loyal to a job? 

 

I started my own company so it's much easier now to understand why I'm loyal to my company. Though I do understand most of my employees feel just like I used to.

[reddogblitz]

On 1/7/2022 at 10:54 AM, FireChans said:

Perfect irony that the younger folks in this topic think he’s a moron and the older folks love it.

 

Its not irony, its life.

 

When people are young they think they know everything and can do it better than those old codgers. What do they know?  The world has changed and us young bucks know how it works and what's needed. See youth in the 1960s.  As they age and work in the real world they realize things are not that simple.  They see new ideas come and go. They see what works over time and what does not.  Around 50 they acquire this thing called wisdom which younger people do not understand.  So younger people don't pay attention to the wisdom learned over many years and instead make their own mistakes.

 

Young people dissing this guy for his old man ideas will be doing the same thing in 30 years.

 

Times change but human nature does not.  Takes a long time to figure that out.

[reddogblitz]

23 hours ago, todd said:

OK Boomer.

 

 

What's you, an ageist?

 

Why is ageism the only ism that is still OK?

[Jerome007]

1 hour ago, reddogblitz said:

 

What exactly have any of these young new fangled analytics driven coaches won?

And WHO are these bad 'young new fangled analytics driven coaches' exactly? That supposedly can't talk to players and media?

 

Who has won... what, the Superbowl? Is that the only criteria here? 

1 hour ago, reddogblitz said:

Young people dissing this guy for his old man ideas will be doing the same thing in 30 years.

Who says people "dissing this guy for his old man ideas" are all young bucks? Ha ha. He is the one making the accusation, not the "young bucks" dissing him.

 

Do I think tons of young guys and gals are entitled brats that didn't pay their dues, and can't indeed talk to people without a phone or computer? Actually, I do ha ha. But he is talking about current NFL coaches.  I just don't see it. Give us names, it might be true, I don't exactly follow all 32 coaches. But I fail to see how a young coach that can't relate to players would survive in the NFL!

[AlfaBill]

On 1/7/2022 at 9:51 AM, TBBills said:

He is just an old grumpy man afraid the younger guys are going to take his job b.c he isn't a good DC anymore.

 

The old "Back in my day" well back in yoru day people didn't realize there was easier ways to do things. No one needs to aline the fields to be a good coordinator... what old man talk.

Look at all those grumpy old thumbs down people.

You must be popular. 

[reddogblitz]

8 hours ago, Jerome007 said:

And WHO are these bad 'young new fangled analytics driven coaches' exactly? That supposedly can't talk to players and media?

 

Who has won... what, the Superbowl? Is that the only criteria here? 

Who says people "dissing this guy for his old man ideas" are all young bucks? Ha ha. He is the one making the accusation, not the "young bucks" dissing him.

 

Do I think tons of young guys and gals are entitled brats that didn't pay their dues, and can't indeed talk to people without a phone or computer? Actually, I do ha ha. But he is talking about current NFL coaches.  I just don't see it. Give us names, it might be true, I don't exactly follow all 32 coaches. But I fail to see how a young coach that can't relate to players would survive in the NFL!

 

You make good points.

 

I guess the new fangled coach I was thinking of was the Chargers coach.  Married to going for it on 4th down come hell or high water costing his team games.

I don't know which or even if any NFL coaches have poor people skills with their players.  How could I? I'm not a player or coach.  But this guy is and says there are, so I'm gonna give it some credibility.  Of course he could just be a buffoon.