Falcons DC Dean Pees calls young NFL coaches “entitled” and “spoiled”

[Matt_In_NH]

I believe in using data, the things he talked about as far as analytics....not taking how the game is going, weather, how your team is playing is all true and should actually be included in an optimal analytics decision.  I have no idea what NFL teams take into and don't take into account as far as analytics but from the internet coaches is they just go off pure history/samples of down and distance, time left and don't consider these other factors which could make your decision making better.

 

As far as younger people not wanting to pay their dues, yeah that is true in society in general right now.  The information available to a younger person can give them confidence to challenge the experienced person....but there is still something to be said for experience.

 

I thought he came across as whining about computers though, the reality is someone using software can have more information, and more reliable information than someone with pad and paper, that is dinosaur stuff.

Edited January 7, 2022 by mattynh

[WhoTom]

12 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Perfect irony that the younger folks in this topic think he’s a moron and the older folks love it.

 

I'm over 50 and I don't love his opinion.

 

 

 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

When a coach can be fired by the Dolphins, and be hired immediately by the Jets, maybe Mr. Pees has something.  Then again, maybe the Jets' ownership is just idiotic.

[Matt_In_NH]

2 hours ago, No Place To Hyde said:

Spot on about analytics. They can be a helpful tool to incorporate, for sure. 

 

But they cannot factor in specific events in what is happening to a team currently in the field. Way too many variables to be relied on 100%. A computer can't look a guy in the eye and say "He wants this more than normal. I trust him". 

The tools can absolutely take into account more real time information, the technology is there.  No they cant look a guy in the eye but analytics can look at the history of the current game and use that as part of a formula along with larger history.  Like other have said, it is just one tool and the coach can always make a decision.  No matter what they do, if it works out in the other teams favor, a bunch of internet trolls will attack.

[LABILLBACKER]

He's not wrong in alot of what he says. Analytics has ruined baseball. There's a place for statistical analysis but it has to be mixed with good ole common sense and human interaction. I still think you'll learn more with solid coaches giving you superior training as opposed to burying your head in a Ipad.

[Paup 1995MVP]

2 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

He actually made several points not totally related to one another.

The one thing that I find interesting is his discussion about young coaches not being able to stand in front of a room and talk to people.  They have to hide behind email or a text.  

 

This is a really interesting trend and it's permeating throughout society now.  

 

The internet has been around long enough now that an entire generation of adults have grown up, if they wanted to, living in a fake world called "social media" and not being around human beings.  They only now how to interact with humans through a computer.  

They don't know how to talk to real humans face to face, interact with them, or get along with them.

And it's a HUGE emerging problem for employers across America.

I would imaging a number of people here fall into this category, whether they realize it or not.

 

 

Perfectly said Nextmanup.  Young people today can be really timid when dealing with any human to human contact.  They can be very intimidated when you are talking with them-one adult to another.  Raise your voice even the slightest, and they may go absolutely to pieces.  Weird how society has evolved.    

[MJS]

There is some bias in the analytics. They are skewed towards the teams with the best coaching and the most talent.

 

Bill Belichick says he doesn't make decisions using analytics, but a lot of his decisions actually have aligned with the analytics over the years. Why? Because he has had a good team. Good teams are more successful regardless of what they do. That drives up the numbers for their tendencies.

 

Bad teams can make the decision to follow the analytics, but still fail all the time because they don't have the talent, leadership, etc. to pull off what the good teams can do.

 

You have to understand your own team. If you have Tom Brady, sneak it on 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1 every time because he converts those every time. If you don't have Tom Brady, though, you aren't going to be as successful on those plays. Yeah, maybe the analytics tell you to sneak it, but if you suck at that, don't do it. Do something that your players are good at executing.

[wjag]

Was listening to some talking heads this AM about this subject. Will be very interesting to see what the Chargers do on Sunday night when the playoffs are on the line.  If analytics says 4th and less than 1 go for it, will he, or will he take the 3pts?  Me thinks all the arguments pro and con in here will be on display in this game.  

[RobbRiddick]

This is great.

 

I was so inspired I just walked into my son's room, threw his iPad out of the window and punched him in the face. Damn kids, they can't even bleed without crying these days.

[DrDawkinstein]

"These long-haired hippy kids are all lazy bums!" -Great Generation on Boomers

 

"These grunge slackers are all lazy bums!" -Boomers on GenX

 

"These kids are all lazy, entitled bums!" -Gen x on Millennials

 

"These kids are all lazy, entitled bums!" -Millennials on Gen Z

 

Wheel in the sky keeps on turning...

[BMWR100RT]

#getoffmylawn

[Malazan]

51 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

"These long-haired hippy kids are all lazy bums!" -Great Generation on Boomers

 

"These grunge slackers are all lazy bums!" -Boomers on GenX

 

"These kids are all lazy, entitled bums!" -Gen x on Millennials

 

"These kids are all lazy, entitled bums!" -Millennials on Gen Z

 

Wheel in the sky keeps on turning...

 

Lazy Millennials couldn't even get their own complaint! They just used Gen z's complaint!

 

His tirade is silly. While he hits on some nuggets it seems more like a blind squirrel. Analytics should be used to inform decisions, not make them. Pees seems far too extreme in his viewpoint and it comes off as angry old man. There are certainly people who put way too much stock in analytics. Like most things, the best results are somewhere in the middle. 

 

You should apply both experience and analytics to decisions. 

Edited January 7, 2022 by Malazan

[Jauronimo]

3 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said:

   Spot on.

   Not just about coaching but about a generation who have grown up with ZERO self formed/ learned interpersonal, face to face social skills.

    Computers and cell phones have created a different way of living. Some of it good but some bad.

    There is a commercial about one of the big pizza companies giving charity to the mom and pop restaurants because people are too lazy to actually either go to a restaurant or pick their own food up….WTF has happened to this country?

    Get a car delivered to you ( get screwed on the deal)

    Sell your house without listing it ( get screwed on the deal)

    Get anything without any work or discomfort but pay a hefty premium and think you are winning due to convenience.

    Yeah, Coach here is preaching to a bunch of us oldsters😎

I'm sitting on the couch cracking a few beers, watching a movie, and its neither convenient or responsible for me to drive for pickup.  I'm really not worried that I'm going to get screwed on my sesame chicken and lo mein transaction.  If I do, DoorDash refunds my money and I get a pizza delivered instead.  

1 hour ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

Perfectly said Nextmanup.  Young people today can be really timid when dealing with any human to human contact.  They can be very intimidated when you are talking with them-one adult to another.  Raise your voice even the slightest, and they may go absolutely to pieces.  Weird how society has evolved.    

You old timers really need to stop closing talking and raising your voice at the urinals. Maybe refrain from conversing with strangers in general while your genitals are in your hands.  

[FireChans]

4 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

I'm sitting on the couch cracking a few beers, watching a movie, and its neither convenient or responsible for me to drive for pickup.  I'm really not worried that I'm going to get screwed on my sesame chicken and lo mein transaction.  If I do, DoorDash refunds my money and I get a pizza delivered instead.  

You old timers really need to stop closing talking and raising your voice at the urinals. Maybe refrain from conversing with strangers in general while your genitals are in your hands.  

You would have been better off posting this

 

[Jauronimo]

Pees made a number of interesting observations and some good points but delivered the message like a crotchety old man.

 

Teaching and leading are aspects of the job which are under appreciated.  Not just in football, but in all jobs.  I see lots of young managers who might be ready to do the job from a technical aspect but cannot explain complex concepts to people less knowledgeable or experienced.  When much of your job depends on getting the most from your team and developing people, communication is paramount.  Adam Gase knows the X's and O's as did Schwartz.  Doesn't mean much when people do not like or respect you.    

3 minutes ago, FireChans said:

You would have been better off posting this

 

Shes got a point.  

 

My extravagant takeout orders have helped countless gig economy wage slaves successfully extract the equity from their automobiles while lining the pockets of silicon valley tech boys at the expense of small businesses.  Now I'm not saying I'm a hero...just one man doing his part.  

[CoudyBills]

4 hours ago, CaliBills said:

 

I don't know man.  

 

I am employed by a company that has a 73 year old CEO who might talk in front of people but really only when the news is good.  He hides behind email and or other staff to enforce anything that could be considered negative or strict.  

 

So age I do not think is the issue.  Technology use is the issue and simply stating younger generations are the one's being effected is a bit narrow.  Boomers are using technology just as much as the younger generations.  IE See Facebook.  Hell my parents (boomers) send text to wish Happy Birthday or even to chat vs just calling.  I find myself having to call them.  

 

Also, There are many young CEO's that are perfectly fine with talking face to face. Or younger people in general.  

 

Technology is the problem and if young kids don't learn how to communicate face to face then that is the result of bad parenting.  Just my opinion.  

 

 

 

Ever deal with people that have anxiety?  You can't parent that out of sombody.

[JohnNord]

3 hours ago, mattynh said:

I believe in using data, the things he talked about as far as analytics....not taking how the game is going, weather, how your team is playing is all true and should actually be included in an optimal analytics decision.  I have no idea what NFL teams take into and don't take into account as far as analytics but from the internet coaches is they just go off pure history/samples of down and distance, time left and don't consider these other factors which could make your decision making better.

 

As far as younger people not wanting to pay their dues, yeah that is true in society in general right now.  The information available to a younger person can give them confidence to challenge the experienced person....but there is still something to be said for experience.

 

I thought he came across as whining about computers though, the reality is someone using software can have more information, and more reliable information than someone with pad and paper, that is dinosaur stuff.

There was some of that, for sure.  But I think his overall message that football or leadership is a “people business” made a lot of sense. 

Edited January 7, 2022 by JohnNord

[todd]

OK Boomer.

 

[JoPoy88]

6 hours ago, JohnNord said:

This is a great video from Falcons DC Dean Pees in regards to the recent movement of hiring the young analytics-based, fairly inexperienced HC’s in the NFL.
 

Yes, there’s a bit of “back in my day” in this rant but the overall message is spot on…you need to your dues to be an effective leaders.
 

It is funny because analytics Twitter has been up in arms trying to misrepresent what he said.  Call me crazy - but I like this guy:

 

 

love how ol’ dean here blames all this entitlement on youth and math in a profession absolutely rife with cronyism and nepotism. Keep yellin’ at those clouds geezer.

[That's No Moon]

5 hours ago, WhoTom said:

I don't know - I get an "old man yells at cloud" feeling from his little tirade.

 

He creates a false dichotomy with respect to analytics by assuming that the only thing the coach looks at is the spreadsheet. I'm sure they're taking into consideration the weather conditions, how the offense and defense are playing, who's on the other side of the ball, etc. It's not an either/or between those factors and analytics - they're just adding the analytics to the equation.

 

Back in my day, we didn't dis other coaches. 🙂

 

I think it's fair to say that SOME people do that.  There are plenty of people who don't and will hold that spreadsheet until the day they die. The overall problem with analytics like this is, no matter what, they are in the aggregate. As Pees was pointing out they don't and can't account for all of the minutia that actually goes into real life.  Each trial of something is basically treated as equal; all 4th and 2s are the same and lots of other relevant things are screened out.  People love to use analytics as a cudgel now and when you do something that is against what the spreadsheet says and it doesn't work you will get called to the carpet for it even if you shouldn't because in the actual real world it was the right thing to do for that one discrete event.

 

I'll use baseball as an example for a moment. Most SABREmetrics people believe that you should not steal bases nor should you sacrifice bunt. Ever. In the aggregate, the numbers bear that out.  The problem is, situationally, that doesn't work the same way.  In the 9th inning of a tie game when you only need one run and you have the bottom of the order up, getting a runner to second base with less than two outs is an EXTREMELY valuable thing to be able to do and it increases the number of ways you can then score the 1 run necessary to win that specific game. 

 

The fact that there are also plenty of people who are more than happy to dismiss what Pees said as an old man talking nonsense about a world that no longer exists are way too quick to dismiss the part he was mentioning about connecting with human beings. That is as skill that a lot of the current generation definitely lacks. Getting people to buy in and pull in the same direction is a skill unto itself and isn't reflected in the spreadsheets either. You hear it in Buffalo when McDermott talks about "culture" and "process".  That's what they are talking about.

 

And back in my day coaches didn't diss the guys with the spreadsheets because they just didn't hire them in the first place. They have a place.  The data has a place.  That place might not at the front of the organization depending on the person in question.  There are tons of amazing analysts that would be terrible CEOs or Department VPs.  There are a smaller number who are good at both things.  If you have someone who is good at both, by all means, put them in charge.   On the flip side if they are only great with the players and not good at the X and Os or data analysis piece they shouldn't be in charge either.  They have a place in your organization, but it's not at the top.