Falcons DC Dean Pees calls young NFL coaches “entitled” and “spoiled”

[billsfan89]

This reeks of "old man yells at cloud". Younger coaches are being fairly successful. McVay has a winning record every season he coached the Rams including 4 playoff appearances and three playoff wins including a Super Bowl appearance and he has the team currently in a solid spot to make a run. Also it isn't like in the past there haven't been a ton of young coaches. John Madden was 32 when he was hired as the Raiders coach, Mike Shanahan was 35 when hired, Bill Cower 34, Mike Tomlin 34, Jon Gruden was also 34 when hired. It isn't a new trend to hire guys in their early to mid 30's as coaches. 

[The Frankish Reich]

50 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

Plus the analytic spreadsheet people are insufferable lately. Josh Allen is still a bust to them, because their pivot table in Excel says so.

This is an awfully tired meme.

Check, for example, the uber-nerd's analytic QB ratings:

 

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2021-nfl-predictions/quarterbacks/?ex_cid=rrpromo

 

Spoiler alert: Rodgers leads the pack, with Allen/Herbert/Mahomes/Brady in a virtual tie for 2nd. And it's been like that all season.

[NewEra]

The only thing I know:  that dude shouldn’t be coaching in a dome.  He needs to be outside, 35 degree weather, 30mph winds blowing the freezing rain in every directions.  Like real men!

[HappyDays]

2 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

This is an awfully tired meme.

Check, for example, the uber-nerd's analytic QB ratings:

 

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2021-nfl-predictions/quarterbacks/?ex_cid=rrpromo

 

Spoiler alert: Rodgers leads the pack, with Allen/Herbert/Mahomes/Brady in a virtual tie for 2nd. And it's been like that all season.

 

I will never tire of seeing Trubisky as the 2nd highest rated QB in the division.

 

Edit: Also lmao at Mayfield being rated lower than Keenum AND Mullens.

Edited January 7, 2022 by HappyDays

[Nineforty]

was really hoping Arthur Smith hadn't paid his dues to add some comedy to this. looks like he did. 

[The Frankish Reich]

2 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

This reeks of "old man yells at cloud". Younger coaches are being fairly successful. McVay has a winning record every season he coached the Rams including 4 playoff appearances and three playoff wins including a Super Bowl appearance and he has the team currently in a solid spot to make a run. Also it isn't like in the past there haven't been a ton of young coaches. John Madden was 32 when he was hired as the Raiders coach, Mike Shanahan was 35 when hired, Bill Cower 34, Mike Tomlin 34, Jon Gruden was also 34 when hired. It isn't a new trend to hire guys in their early to mid 30's as coaches. 

And to be honest, other than Josh McDaniels way back in 2009 when he was hired as Broncos HC at 33, I don't recall any of these young coaches acting like entitled spoiled children. I mean, compare the petulant and jerky yet well-seasoned Urban Meyer to all of the 30-somethings who've gotten jobs.

[DrDawkinstein]

OK, Boomer

[JGMcD2]

27 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

This reeks of "old man yells at cloud". Younger coaches are being fairly successful. McVay has a winning record every season he coached the Rams including 4 playoff appearances and three playoff wins including a Super Bowl appearance and he has the team currently in a solid spot to make a run. Also it isn't like in the past there haven't been a ton of young coaches. John Madden was 32 when he was hired as the Raiders coach, Mike Shanahan was 35 when hired, Bill Cower 34, Mike Tomlin 34, Jon Gruden was also 34 when hired. It isn't a new trend to hire guys in their early to mid 30's as coaches. 

That’s not what he’s saying… at all… 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

32 minutes ago, BBills_88 said:

The Analytics gave Mc Dermott the incorrect information when the Jags kicker nailed the 56 yarder.

analytics is based on probabilities...the chance of him making the kick was lower than the chance of them picking up the first down if the holding penalty was accepted on 2nd down (if im remembering the situation correctly lol)  Analytics doesnt say things like 'this kicker is definitely gonna miss the kick' .  Maybe in the alternate reality where we accept the penalty they pick up the first down and score 7 on us theres just no way to know now.

[BillnutinHouston]

1 hour ago, WhoTom said:

I don't know - I get an "old man yells at cloud" feeling from his little tirade.

 

He creates a false dichotomy with respect to analytics by assuming that the only thing the coach looks at is the spreadsheet. I'm sure they're taking into consideration the weather conditions, how the offense and defense are playing, who's on the other side of the ball, etc. It's not an either/or between those factors and analytics - they're just adding the analytics to the equation.

 

Back in my day, we didn't dis other coaches. 🙂

 

 

Well Cordarrelle didn't see it that way and he knows Pees better than we do.  So there is that.  

[Billy Claude]

1 hour ago, TheFunPolice said:

Well, he does have a point about analytics I think.

 

There's this idea that whatever the formula says is always correct. Going for it on 4th down every time it's short yardage can also get you beat (see the Chargers this year). Circumstances matter. 

 

Plus the analytic spreadsheet people are insufferable lately. Josh Allen is still a bust to them, because their pivot table in Excel says so. 

 

Analytics area great tool but the idea that they are the be all and end all of coaching just doesn't work when you're dealing with human beings. 

 

Jets Bucs game is a great example last week. Brady gets to within 4 late, but then the Jets drive the ball all the way down the field to inside the Bucs 10, which was a surprise given how they had gone 3 and out a bunch. So the Jets are feeling great. Then it gets down to 4th and short. 

 

Analytics says go for it. And you're the Jets, so why not? It's not like the game really meant anything either way, other than the W. But nobody's playoff position changes and the Jets are dead in the water anyway. 

 

However, I would argue that you kick the FG there and go up 7, putting ALL the pressure on Brady. Worst case scenario he goes all the way down the field and ties you. Once you miss the 4th down and Tampa players are jumping all over the field celebrating there's a feeling of "here we go" that comes with being human that the spreadsheet doesn't and cannot account for. 

 

Brady has said it multiple times: he looks at it as he already lost, but now he suddenly has a chance to win. Thus, ZFG. 

 

The Jets had already won, but now they have a chance to lose. We saw how it went. You play totally different in those cases. 

 

That game was 100% going to end the way it did as soon as they missed the 4th down. Even though the "odds" of Brady taking them 93 yards in under 2:00 with no timeouts were supposedly low, we all knew they were close to 100%. 

 

 

 

 

I have to disagree here.  If the Jets kick a field goal Brady would have probably just needed to go 70 to 75 yards to tie.   I wouldn't bet against Brady to do that.  If the game is tied, the chances of the Jets winning in overtime are pretty low.   100% of the time the Jets should have gone for it.  It was just a bad play call and bad defense afterwards.

 

[Dr. K]

I am not so on board with what seems to be his resentment of younger people becoming coaches--at least I don't in principle think just because a person is young they can't be or don't deserve to be a head coach.

 

On the other hand, I very much agree with what he says about successful coaching requiring skill at interpersonal interactions with the players. If you ignore the human interactions that are part of coaching, you can be brilliant at the theoretical aspects and still fail.  To some degree a good coach must be a teacher, and teachers who completely disregard the interpersonal side of teaching are not likely to succeed long term. 

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

I am sure he is right about the entitlement of young coaches. I see it in my own profession. The conversation I have most with young people just starting out is prioritise learning the job and you will climb the ladder. But prioritise climbing the ladder you will never learn the job. There is a generation of 20 somethings who just want to get to the top as fast as they can by any means possible. I had a guy work for me who got there in 4 years working his way up from the bottom. It took me 11 to get to that same level and I am only 10 years older than him so not like a totally different time. He was awful. Because he hadn't learnt the job. There was no substance behind anything he did. He worked for me for 18 months and I basically had to start from scratch teaching him the things I was taught right at the start of my career. Wouldn't shock me at all to know the same exists in coaching.

 

On analytics I know what he is trying to say but he didn't express it very well. 

 

He worked for Saban at Michigan State. So when the HC job at Kent State went south Saban was his in with Belichick. Oh and of course Saban started out at Kent State so I am sure he put in a good word for Pees to get that job too.

 

For sure...young people are super entitled these days and have been for a while...they want the same perks and benefits on their first day as an employee who has been there for 15 years and has put in blood, sweat and tears for the company. Then they get upset when they are told it's not happening and you need to earn your stripes.

[CaliBills]

8 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

For sure...young people are super entitled these days and have been for a while...they want the same perks and benefits on their first day as an employee who has been there for 15 years and has put in blood, sweat and tears for the company. Then they get upset when they are told it's not happening and you need to earn your stripes.

 

These days?  

 

Older generations have complained about younger generations since forever ago.   

 

The "I used to work 20 hours a day in fields" to "I used to work 10 hours a day in a factory" to "I used to work 8 hours a day in an office" to " I used to work 8 hours a day remotely" to etc, etc, etc.

 

Like the whole, I used to walk to school in 2 ft a snow in -20 degrees.  While their grandparents didnt even get a chance to go to school, they had to work since they were capable in either a factory or farm or some manual labor.  

 

 

Edited January 7, 2022 by CaliBills

[Nextmanup]

10 minutes ago, Dr. K said:

I am not so on board with what seems to be his resentment of younger people becoming coaches--at least I don't in principle think just because a person is young they can't be or don't deserve to be a head coach.

 

On the other hand, I very much agree with what he says about successful coaching requiring skill at interpersonal interactions with the players. If you ignore the human interactions that are part of coaching, you can be brilliant at the theoretical aspects and still fail.  To some degree a good coach must be a teacher, and teachers who completely disregard the interpersonal side of teaching are not likely to succeed long term. 

I don't really disagree with any of that, though I will say that--at the NFL level--it's not so much about teaching.

College?  Yes.

 

NFL?  It's more x and o scheming, working 20 hour days, and cheerleading.  Getting the boys fired up.

 

I often wonder how much raw teaching is done at the NFL level at all.

 

 

[Big Turk]

Just now, CaliBills said:

 

These days?  

 

Older generations have complained about younger generations since forever ago.   

 

The "I used to work 20 hours a day in fields" to "I used to work 10 hours a day in a factory" to "I used to work 8 hours a day in an office" to " I used to work 8 hours a day remotely" to etc, etc, etc.

 

Like the whole, I used to walk to school in 2 ft a snow in -20 degrees.  While their grandparents didnt even get a chance to go to school, they had to work since they were capable.  

 

 

 

I am not talking about the generations, only what I have seen since the past 15 years or so in individual young workers. Their work ethic is a joke for the most part. Their idea of working hard is getting off their cell phones for 15 minutes every hour to do some actual work.

[CaliBills]

5 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

I am not talking about the generations, only what I have seen since the past 15 years or so in individual young workers. Their work ethic is a joke for the most part. Their idea of working hard is getting off their cell phones for 15 minutes every hour to do some actual work.

 

Then blame their parents because that is the stem of their work ethic.

 

Work ethic is learned.  Look at Josh Allen (hard working father) to Josh Rosen (raised dare I say spoiled?)

 

And just to note, I am not saying young generations don't have issues because they will always . Mainly because parents try to coddle them so they don't have hardships that the parents had.  Since the parents couldn't instill work ethic in their own kid, society will give a quick hard lesson in what is required.

 

 

Edited January 7, 2022 by CaliBills

[FireChans]

Perfect irony that the younger folks in this topic think he’s a moron and the older folks love it.

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Perfect irony that the younger folks in this topic think he’s a moron and the older folks love it.

 

The younger folks don't have the experience to understand the wisdom of his words. In 20 years they will tho and then they would probably agree with him.

[JGMcD2]

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Perfect irony that the younger folks in this topic think he’s a moron and the older folks love it.

I love it!

 

All of us young folks aren’t clowns.