Victor Davis Hanson: These are the actual insurrectionists

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

No apparently you don't.  

 

You called VDH's claim that Democrats are trying to Federalize election laws trash, without evidence why not!   

 

We're still waiting for you (preferably in your own words) to tell us where in the Constitution it says elections are the Federal Government's responsibility 

The Federal constitution totally has voting and election sections on how they may be conducted. . States can't do whatever they want with elections. You seriously didn't know that? 

 

[Wacka]

17 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

The Federal constitution totally has voting and election sections on how they may be conducted. . States can't do whatever they want with elections. You seriously didn't know that? 

 

Then quote those parts.

I think the 10th amendment, the most violated one, covers this.

 

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people"

[The Frankish Reich]

4 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

Victor Davis Hanson needs a lesson, because he doesn't agree with Tiberius.

 

NO response by any of us could demonstrate the shallowness and floundering of the Left here on this board than Tibsy's reply has.

 

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, THE Victor Davis Hanson, the self-appointed Sage of Fresno, Chair of the Classics Department at Fresno State, to which elite young classicists the world over flock.

There's a certain kind of minor league academic who manages to ingratiate himself (always him, not her) with the right wing commentariat, who then hold him up as some kind of uber intellectual. The bar is awfully low, low enough for even this bozo to hurdle.

Victor Davis Hanson is a joke. And a boring one to boot.

[Tenhigh]

13 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Yes, THE Victor Davis Hanson, the self-appointed Sage of Fresno, Chair of the Classics Department at Fresno State, to which elite young classicists the world over flock.

There's a certain kind of minor league academic who manages to ingratiate himself (always him, not her) with the right wing commentariat, who then hold him up as some kind of uber intellectual. The bar is awfully low, low enough for even this bozo to hurdle.

Victor Davis Hanson is a joke. And a boring one to boot.

What does this add to the conversation?

[The Frankish Reich]

1 minute ago, Tenhigh said:

What does this add to the conversation?

Well, in case you didn't notice, one of your fellow travelers saw fit to underscore the name Victor Davis Hanson as if he were citing to one of the titans of academia. 

[Tenhigh]

11 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Well, in case you didn't notice, one of your fellow travelers saw fit to underscore the name Victor Davis Hanson as if he were citing to one of the titans of academia. 

Sweet Jeebus, an UNDERSCORE?   So nothing then, just attacking the guys character instead of his content?  But as long as everyone else is doing it...

 

 

I have been looking into this topic a bit, and I have to say that I think Tibs is actually right this time.  From what I have read so far it seems like States can make whatever laws they like regarding federal elections, but congress by law can supercede these rules, as per article 1 section 4.

https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/interpretation/article-i/clauses/750

 

 

Edited January 7, 2022 by Tenhigh

[Doc]

All I can say is thank goodness for Joe Manchin!  The Marxists won’t be getting their way. 

[The Frankish Reich]

19 minutes ago, Tenhigh said:

Sweet Jeebus, an UNDERSCORE?   So nothing then, just attacking the guys character instead of his content? 

The reply was of the order of, "You have the nerve to argue with the Victor Davis Hanson?" We call that type of argument an "appeal to authority," as in Victor Davis Hanson should be considered authoritative. I pointed out that he is certainly not, at least not with respect to things way far afield from ancient Greece and Rome ....

21 minutes ago, Tenhigh said:

I have been looking into this topic a bit, and I have to say that I think Tibs is actually right this time.  From what I have read so far it seems like States can make whatever laws they like regarding federal elections, but congress by law can supercede these rules, as per article 1 section 4.

https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/interpretation/article-i/clauses/750

 

Good. I am glad you really did the research.

I know you probably won't read it because it is the NYT, but David Brooks has a pretty good take on Democratic overreach in their voting rights bill:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/06/opinion/democrats-fail-defending-democracy.html

 

The emergency is in the third phase — Republican efforts to overturn votes that have been counted. But Democratic voting bills — the For the People Act and its update, the Freedom to Vote Act — were not overhauled to address the threats that have been blindingly obvious since Jan. 6 last year. They are sprawling measures covering everything from mail-in ballots to campaign finance. They basically include every idea that’s been on activist agendas for years.

These bills are hard to explain and hard to pass. By catering to D.C. interest groups, Democrats have spent a year distracting themselves from the emergency right in front of us.

[Tenhigh]

1 hour ago, The Frankish Reich said:

The reply was of the order of, "You have the nerve to argue with the Victor Davis Hanson?" We call that type of argument an "appeal to authority," as in Victor Davis Hanson should be considered authoritative. I pointed out that he is certainly not, at least not with respect to things way far afield from ancient Greece and Rome ....

Good. I am glad you really did the research.

I know you probably won't read it because it is the NYT, but David Brooks has a pretty good take on Democratic overreach in their voting rights bill:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/06/opinion/democrats-fail-defending-democracy.html

 

The emergency is in the third phase — Republican efforts to overturn votes that have been counted. But Democratic voting bills — the For the People Act and its update, the Freedom to Vote Act — were not overhauled to address the threats that have been blindingly obvious since Jan. 6 last year. They are sprawling measures covering everything from mail-in ballots to campaign finance. They basically include every idea that’s been on activist agendas for years.

These bills are hard to explain and hard to pass. By catering to D.C. interest groups, Democrats have spent a year distracting themselves from the emergency right in front of us.

I think it's kind of cowardly to only read things from sources that you agree with.  As for his argument that Republicans are trying to overturn votes that are already counted, I tend to believe that it's either pretty thin or very shortsighted.  

 

But I'm personally a huge fan of requiring voter IDs for all, but I do think they should be free or low cost.  I also am a proponent of the Republican efforts to get rid of ballot harvesting at the state level.  I think that is probably the easiest way to commit voter fraud, and it's kind of a despicable practice, imo. 

[716er]

3 minutes ago, LeviF said:

Which of them has been charged with insurrection?

 

[The Frankish Reich]

36 minutes ago, Tenhigh said:

But I'm personally a huge fan of requiring voter IDs for all, but I do think they should be free or low cost.  I also am a proponent of the Republican efforts to get rid of ballot harvesting at the state level. 

Believe it or not, I agree with you on these points.

Check out the topics on voting, etc.

Many of the instances we've seen so far of "fraudulent voting" are more like instances of "where am I allowed to vote." Like this one about snowbirds in a retirement community:

https://www.tampabay.com/news/crime/2021/12/15/3-voters-from-the-villages-charged-with-voting-fraud/

 

You have two homes, you can only vote for President in one state. Or you're a college student; do you vote where your parents live or where your school is located?

I honestly don't know the answer to these questions (my kid in college asked me!) and I'm a lawyer so I ought to be able to figure it out. It's kind of like "choose one and only one" but which one?  We need to tighten up the rules and the process.

But as Brooks points out, none of these problems compare to the current threat that state legislature, state officials, or even a future corrupt VP presiding over the Senate might insert themselves into the process to flip a Presidential election. That came close to happening in 2020. And remember: next time around, or the time after that the shoe may be on the other foot with a Democratic state official/legislature or a Democratic VP deciding unilaterally what votes ought to count and what ones won't be counted. We like to have clear rules before the dispute arises, as it inevitably will again. We don't, and we won't.

 

 

[LeviF]

49 minutes ago, 716er said:

 

Insurrection is the wrong word in both cases. 
 

But in any case one political party has all the power in the country currently. And they can’t manage to get measly PC to charge anyone with insurrection. Makes ya think. 

[Big Blitz]

4 hours ago, Tenhigh said:

Sweet Jeebus, an UNDERSCORE?   So nothing then, just attacking the guys character instead of his content?  But as long as everyone else is doing it...

 

 

I have been looking into this topic a bit, and I have to say that I think Tibs is actually right this time.  From what I have read so far it seems like States can make whatever laws they like regarding federal elections, but congress by law can supercede these rules, as per article 1 section 4.

https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/interpretation/article-i/clauses/750

 

 

 

 

That clause applies to Congressional elections only - in any case where a state attempts to interrupt or prohibit the election of members of the House - in that specific case they would have to pass a law that supercedes any state attempt to do that.

 

 

The Democrats are trying to argue that making you register 30 days before an election and voting in person is an interruption of the election process.     

 

 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2022 by Big Blitz

[Tenhigh]

1 hour ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Believe it or not, I agree with you on these points.

Check out the topics on voting, etc.

Many of the instances we've seen so far of "fraudulent voting" are more like instances of "where am I allowed to vote." Like this one about snowbirds in a retirement community:

https://www.tampabay.com/news/crime/2021/12/15/3-voters-from-the-villages-charged-with-voting-fraud/

 

You have two homes, you can only vote for President in one state. Or you're a college student; do you vote where your parents live or where your school is located?

I honestly don't know the answer to these questions (my kid in college asked me!) and I'm a lawyer so I ought to be able to figure it out. It's kind of like "choose one and only one" but which one?  We need to tighten up the rules and the process.

But as Brooks points out, none of these problems compare to the current threat that state legislature, state officials, or even a future corrupt VP presiding over the Senate might insert themselves into the process to flip a Presidential election. That came close to happening in 2020. And remember: next time around, or the time after that the shoe may be on the other foot with a Democratic state official/legislature or a Democratic VP deciding unilaterally what votes ought to count and what ones won't be counted. We like to have clear rules before the dispute arises, as it inevitably will again. We don't, and we won't.

 

 

I don't believe that Florida shifted any vote certification. Regarding Georgia, I think it's mostly faux outrage manufactured by the president/administration with the whole "Jim Crow on steroids" comments.  

[thenorthremembers]

The plebians showed up to the palace...thats the real issue.

[Westside]

30 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

The plebians showed up to the palace...thats the real issue.

Is that your last name?

[thenorthremembers]

6 minutes ago, Westside said:

Is that your last name?

Not sure what youre getting at but no.

[L Ron Burgundy]

16 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

Hey man, not sure it helps your cause if you call everyone who disagrees with you, part of a cult...it just makes people shut down to what you’re trying to say- even if you have good points to make...

 

Imo, issues tend to be more nuanced and overlapping, and less black and white...👍

Have you said the same to the morons that throw out the word Marxists all the time?  Ya know, the geniuses whom 90% of couldn't define what it is without a dictionary in front of them.

[Buffalo716]

17 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

I’ve always thought I was set in my ways...And then sometimes, I unexpectedly, change my mind in the middle of a conversation...I think we are always changing, maturing, evolving...we have to, right?

 

The key is that BOTH Right and Left have legitimate points to make...but the secret to success in a society is that it takes a balance of moderation from both...you need motivation/incentive combined with compassion- but if either side has too much influence, you start to see a deterioration of civilization...and the hard part is knowing the right amount of each in an ever evolving world...👍

I think your common sense is lost on certain segments of the population

 

I understand everything you're saying loud and clear... But it seems that there's certain people in this country who will turn a blind eye and only hear what the mainstream media tells them

[Orlando Buffalo]

22 hours ago, Tiberius said:

 

Oh no, that would be a good thing. It serves no good purpose at all. Let the people decide 

If in your "understanding" of American history you do see the purpose of the electoral college then you are not ready for any argument about the structure of our elections.