Wonderlic Test Eliminated from Pre-Draft Process

[maddenboy]

I think Dorq gets back to my point.   Florio states that the Wonderlic is irrelevant.  It is not.

 

The 40 yard dash might be 'irrelevant' in that same sense.  But the 40 is not irrelevant.  It might not be a reliable predictor of what you are trying to use it for though, and that's YOUR problem.  Doesnt mean the test, or test result, is irrelevant.  People adjust the results to see if they apply to the desired trait, which is why they now do the 10-yard split times for the 40.  Because people arent stupid and realized that O-Linemen never do run 40, but its still relevant to see them run fast in a straight line.  Not determinative,  but certainly relevant.

 

Me?  I'll be quite happy if other teams use the Wonderlic, and the 40, and the Bench, and the background checks, wrongly.  If I think my team doesn't make those mistakes, its better for me.

[dorquemada]

1 minute ago, maddenboy said:

I think Dorq gets back to my point.   Florio states that the Wonderlic is irrelevant.  It is not.

 

 

As an aside, speaking of predictive value, if Florio says Thing, the smart money is on Opposite of Thing

[BassToMouth]

23 hours ago, transient said:

On a related note, commentators will no longer be allowed to point out that Ryan Fitzpatrick went to Harvard. 

He did??!!

[Big Turk]

They are also going to fine teams via monetary measures or loss of draft picks if they conduct unprofessional interviews with prospects.  That should be interesting...some of the questions teams have asked the prospects during interviews have just been outrageous.  Surprised someone hasn't gotten punched in the face over it.  They would have deserved it.

Edited January 6, 2022 by Big Turk

[transient]

I think the Wonderlic should be repurposed by owners for screening GM and front office candidates, and to a lesser extent HC's. Might have saved the Bills some of the time they lost with Buddy Nix, Doug Whaley, Russ Brandon and Rex Ryan.

[The Frankish Reich]

13 hours ago, Wizard said:

2. Teams likely use a shorter test similar to the wonderlic for players they invite for a formal visit.

I think the Wonderlic had a 12 minute time limit for 50 questions.

 

3 hours ago, SoTier said:

The Wonderlic measures academic test taking skills the potential draftees have already mastered.   It doesn't measure much else.  

 

Given the time pressure, it measures something else too: ability to perform under pressure. We can argue about whether that translates to decisionmaking pressure in game situations, but the time-pressured characteristic of most standardized tests is a critical element.

 

1 hour ago, dorquemada said:

Ability to read, quickly assimilate information, and understand abstraction are all critical functions of a modern football player.  A much more believable argument against the wonderlic is that the test itself doesn't measure anything relevant to football.

Nicely stated.

[MJS]

I view wonderlic scores like this:

 

If you scored high, you are quick thinking and/or you prepared well for it.

 

If you score low, you didn't prepare for it or you are severely academically challenged (and somehow got through 3 years of college?). OR you didn't take the test seriously at all.

 

A low score reflects badly on you mostly because it tells me you didn't take the draft process seriously. Why would you not prepare for the wonderlic when it is a simple test that is so easy to prepare for? To me, that reflects on your character, coachability, etc.

 

Some people claim it is racist or culturally biased. I disagree. These are players that were supposed to have been attending college classes for at least 3 years, not to mention K-12. They should be able to handle the wonderlic questions regardless of race or cultural background. If English is not your first language, that's one valid excuse.

[dorquemada]

19 minutes ago, MJS said:

Some people claim it is racist or culturally biased. I disagree. These are players that were supposed to have been attending college classes for at least 3 years, not to mention K-12. They should be able to handle the wonderlic questions regardless of race or cultural background. If English is not your first language, that's one valid excuse.

 

The soft racism of low expectations is, at the end of the day, still racism

[Gugny]

1 hour ago, transient said:

I think the Wonderlic should be repurposed by owners for screening GM and front office candidates, and to a lesser extent HC's. Might have saved the Bills some of the time they lost with Buddy Nix, Doug Whaley, Russ Brandon and Rex Ryan.

 

Bills owners made all of those choices, so perhaps it is they who need to be tested.

[BadLandsMeanie]

On 1/5/2022 at 2:39 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Yep.  Although I personally believe Lamar and his mother were “crazy like a fox” with the whole draft process.  

 

I think they wanted Lamar to be drafted in the first round for the contract guarantees, but they actually did not want him to be drafted very high.  Why?  Because typically, being drafted high means you are gonna go to a bad team and there will be struggles.  Lamar worked on stuff that mattered to them, like improving his footwork and passing and his ability to assess a defense and call appropriate plays.  Lamar didn’t work on stuff that didn’t matter to them.

 

There were a whole pile of things at the time - the lack of prep for the Wonderlic and the low score, also Lamar’s instagram account had some eyebrow-raising stuff - nothing explicit but quoting dope-related lyrics and stuff like that ( @BadLandsMeanie drew this to my attention, I wasn’t following Lamar).  Nothing that would knock him out of the first round, but just enough to lower his stock a bit.

 

At the time there was various tsk-tsk-ing about how Jackson was costing himself draft slots and corresponding $$ that an agent could have helped them bring in, but I personally think Mama Jackson and Lamar felt he would get enough money on his first contract and have a better chance at a more lucrative 2nd contract if he went to a team with a proven coach, good players, and a winning culture in place.  The Ravens checked all the boxes.

Agreed. After a while I too figured he had done that on purpose. He wanted Baltimore. Pretty clever how he and his mom pulled that off.

[Chaos]

On 1/5/2022 at 12:55 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

So just look at the data above.  Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson are arguably the two best QB from the draft class - Lamar has already won league MVP and whether or not we agree, is heading to the pro bowl again.  The Ravens have been a playoff team Jackson’s first 3 seasons, and arguably would be one again if Jackson didn’t miss 4 games from week 15 to 17.

 

Next would be Baker Mayfield.  The Browns were a playoff team last year and arguably would be one again if Mayfield weren’t hurt.

 

Sam Darnold has been able to see the field in the NFL, albeit neither his TD to INT ratio, his completion %, nor his YPG look particularly promising.

Josh Rosen looks like a flat-out first-round Bust.

 

So being a Buffalo homer and ranking the QB in order of team contribution, we have  37-13-25-28-29

 

I don’t think you need an advanced stats degree to conclude that there isn’t a correlation between Wonderlic and football contribution.

absurdly small sample set to reach this conclusion. Complete nonsense. 

[LABILLBACKER]

On 1/5/2022 at 9:05 AM, Arkady Renko said:

Remember that Wrong Josh (Josh Allen) got a higher Wonderlic than Right Josh (Josh Rosen) despite Right Josh being a "deeper thinker." 

The only thing Rosen had was a deeper ego.

[Wizard]

I think making tweaks to the Wonderlic is a better option than getting rid of it.

 

Maybe a Wonderlic has players go through some X's and O's in a variety of playcalling situations, schemes, etc.

 

And, maybe there are cognitive processing skills and recognizing patterns that can be used that match some ideals for certain position groups.

 

Trymaine Edmund's may be athletic, kind, hardworking, a good teammate,and a nice guy, but his lacks of situational awareness and instincts would and ought to be measured.

 

Call the current Wonderlic culturally biased, rooted in racism, or outdated, okay.

 

But an updated Wonderlic with these or other tweaks is just called gathering good information on a potential hire and good business.

Edited February 12, 2022 by Wizard

[Doc Brown]

On 1/5/2022 at 1:15 PM, Chicken Boo said:

It's football.  If you're trying to determine if a QB can process things quickly, how about an on-field football related drill?

They have processing speed tasks on all the major cognitive tests that are quick and easy to administer.  I always thought that would be more useful than a mini SAT which is what the Wonderlic is.

[Behindenemylines]

Does this mean the Wonderlick family stops getting royalties?   Does Fitzy get to kept his title as the highest Wonderlick on record. 

 

so many questions.   I’m vexed 
 

 

[mead107]

To much licking going on 👅 

[HOUSE]

I would replace the Wonderlic with a simple Lie Detector Test

 

#1 Which is more important to you, Money or playing football ?

 

#2 How many guns do you  legally own ?

 

#3 Ever smoke weed on game day ?

 

 

 

[bmur66]

Ooooo it's so unfair and embarrassing 😭

Edited February 12, 2022 by bmur66

[CoudyBills]

On 1/5/2022 at 1:28 PM, RoyBatty is alive said:

That was a totally different era when Marino & Kelly took it.  Like comparing records of QB TD/INT ratios from back then versus today,

LOL, they dont require them as of right now for the next 4 years.  

So what does Harvard use as selection criteria?

[Chaos]

30 minutes ago, CoudyBills said:

So what does Harvard use as selection criteria?

in the past
1. Legacy ties 2. Political connections 3. Objective Academic Measures 4. Subjective academic measures 5. Geography

current state
1. Legacy ties 2. Political connections 3. Identity. 4. Geography 5. Subjective academic measures