*[EDIT]* Multiple reports Browns actively shopping Mayfield pg. 29/30 - Ravens / Browns in QB contract pickle

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

16 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Reminds me of Brian Hoyer’s commercials for Mr. Hero.

Billy Joe Hobert for 'Dependable Motor Freight'.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Jackson is a good to great QB. Baker is at best good.

That said I would not sign either to an extension. They already have the 5th year guaranteed and they can franchise them if need be. Do exactly what Dallas did with Dak. The cap is going up and there will be room to carry a QB on a tag for at least a year. That gives both teams two more years to figure it out. I expect Cleveland will figure Mayfield is not good enough and will move on after 2022. However his shoulder injury this year could explain some of his bad play. Allen had a few bad games with an injured non throwing shoulder and that did not require surgery.  So if Mayfield is just average next year they can decide he is not worth a huge contract and save those dollars for the other first round picks on that team.  Then maybe they make a trade for a veteran QB.

[Wayne Cubed]

13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think Lamar can find lightening in a bottle and win a Superbowl he has a great Head Coach and a great GM who will build and field competitive teams year after year. I don't think he can win multiple. That is the difference between a QB like him and the elite passers. 

 

I agree, I think he could catch lightening in a bottle but I think the Ravens would need a few things going for them as well. Jacksons MVP season, the Ravens went up against a pretty bad AFC North. Roesthisberger was out for season, Cleveland had Freddie Kitchens as HC and the Bengals were awful. They've not repreated that dominance in the AFC North since. And this season, yea they've got injuries, but they've been beaten up by other AFC North teams.

 

There's a shot conditions could be right for them again, with Roesthisberger retiring... the Browns spinning their wheels. My only slight hesitation is with what the Bengals are putting together. They could end up making it very tough for the Ravens, for a long time.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

46 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Yep, Cleveland is stuck in QB purgatory right now, you built too good of a team to fail hard enough to get a good pick, but you don’t have the guy that can get you over the hump.  They are set up for years of 9-8, with the occasional glimmer of hope, maybe pulling off the 12 wins on a years when their NFC schedule is putrid and they will keep trying to find the one piece to get them over the hump.  Meanwhile, Cincy has a core that’s going to destroy them for years.   This is the problem with not having the right QB, we had it here for years, just good enough to never tank, never good enough to actually contend.  Baker is (at least the current version of him) the equivalent of a slightly stronger armed Fitzpatrick.  That’s to say, there are games where he’s great, but those costly mistakes when it comes to crunch time will kill you.  Look at Fitz with the Jets, as front runners he’d bury you, but there’s not a QB in the league you would rather face than Fitz and Now Baker late in the game, when they had to make it happen.

 

Jackson is essentially a modern Vick with less of an arm.  I think he also puts you in purgatory, but he also gives you chances that nobody else can.  I wouldn’t want him as my franchise, but once you have him, it’s next to impossible to let it go.  I could see him finding lightning in a bottle and winning a SB, but I really doubt it.  The D will have to be exceptional and the opponents will have to have the right weakness’s and a LOT will have to bounce their way for it to happen.

 

They're 8-8 using running backs who weren't even on the camp roster.  They've used 3 different QBs.  Peters missed all season.  Humphrey banged up and now done for the year  All 3 of their top WRs have missed time.  Stanley has barely played.  They've used a ton of linemen all year long.

 

They're a good team when a lot of those guys are in the game, jackson especially.  He'll get paid.

[TheBrownBear]

There are a lot of extenuating circumstances that have led to the drop in performance we've seen from Baker and Lamar this season.  I'm not super high on either of them, but they are much better than they've shown in 2021.  The Ravens have been decimated by injuries this year and we know Baker isn't healthy.  I think the Browns and Ravens should find a way to lock up these guys. 

 

I think Lamar gets a Josh Allen type of contract in the offseason.  Maybe a little more based on the cap and inflation.  I'm not saying he's "worth" that, but they need to keep him and that's what he's going to demand.

 

As for the Browns, they were a nothing joke before Baker.  Do they really want to play the QB carousel again for 20 years?  Baker is probably around the 12-15th best QB in the NFL when healthy.  The question is whether the Browns can get Baker to sign for a contract number in that range.  They shouldn't break the bank for him, but do they want to roll the dice on him bouncing back with a big year in 2022 and demanding huge money or walking?

 

 

[DCofNC]

49 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

If Jackson were to catch that lightning and get 1 Super Bowl and then just be a realt good regular season QB who loses in the playoffs…

 

How much different would that make him than Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees?  And a head of guys like Philip Rivers with what they were able to accomplish in their careers?

You have a point, there’s going to be a tough road to a SB for anybody out of the AFC for a few years at least.  KC, Buffalo,Tenn, Cincy all look to have a solid program that should be in the playoffs every year.  Baltimore should be too, but they have been snake bit this year, still really impressive where they are given the circumstances.  Then you have LAC, NE, possibly Miami, Indy who are all on the cusp of having it all together.  So if he does in fact find a way to win one, he may be seen in a similar light as those guys.

25 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

They're 8-8 using running backs who weren't even on the camp roster.  They've used 3 different QBs.  Peters missed all season.  Humphrey banged up and now done for the year  All 3 of their top WRs have missed time.  Stanley has barely played.  They've used a ton of linemen all year long.

 

They're a good team when a lot of those guys are in the game, jackson especially.  He'll get paid.

No doubt, that team should be way further ahead, they have done great given the situation.  They don’t HAVE to pay Lamar this year though.

[DCofNC]

16 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

There are a lot of extenuating circumstances that have led to the drop in performance we've seen from Baker and Lamar this season.  I'm not super high on either of them, but they are much better than they've shown in 2021.  The Ravens have been decimated by injuries this year and we know Baker isn't healthy.  I think the Browns and Ravens should find a way to lock up these guys. 

 

I think Lamar gets a Josh Allen type of contract in the offseason.  Maybe a little more based on the cap and inflation.  I'm not saying he's "worth" that, but they need to keep him and that's what he's going to demand.

 

As for the Browns, they were a nothing joke before Baker.  Do they really want to play the QB carousel again for 20 years?  Baker is probably around the 12-15th best QB in the NFL when healthy.  The question is whether the Browns can get Baker to sign for a contract number in that range.  They shouldn't break the bank for him, but do they want to roll the dice on him bouncing back with a big year in 2022 and demanding huge money or walking?

 

 

Both have 5th year options so nothing is going to change for this year, I’d roll the dice on Baker.  If he shows up, sweet pay him, if not, bye.  Jackson is the only QB likely to get big money even next year so why not let him play this year, the big dogs have been paid, let it roll, the market isn’t going to change much. 
 

The Bills played it a little safe, but might actually have signed Josh too early.  You got him after what might be the best season he’ll ever have, might have gotten a better deal this year honestly.  Doubt it matters much, but might have given another year of him under control.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

I know I’m 5 pages late to this. 
 

please summarize all the QB’s in Josh’s draft year?

 

J Rosen. Fail ✅ 

 

B Mayfield ??? 🤔 🤷 

 

S Darnold Fail ✅ X 2

 

J Allen 💯 success story 💯 % Grade A QB 

 

L Jackson ??? 🤔 🤷 

 

Did I miss anyone?

Edited January 4, 2022 by SlimShady'sSpaceForce

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

17 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

You have a point, there’s going to be a tough road to a SB for anybody out of the AFC for a few years at least.  KC, Buffalo,Tenn, Cincy all look to have a solid program that should be in the playoffs every year.  Baltimore should be too, but they have been snake bit this year, still really impressive where they are given the circumstances.  Then you have LAC, NE, possibly Miami, Indy who are all on the cusp of having it all together.  So if he does in fact find a way to win one, he may be seen in a similar light as those guys.

No doubt, that team should be way further ahead, they have done great given the situation.  They don’t HAVE to pay Lamar this year though.

 

You would structure it around the cap hit in 2022 - Allens is only 16M in 2022.  

14 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Both have 5th year options so nothing is going to change for this year, I’d roll the dice on Baker.  If he shows up, sweet pay him, if not, bye.  Jackson is the only QB likely to get big money even next year so why not let him play this year, the big dogs have been paid, let it roll, the market isn’t going to change much. 
 

The Bills played it a little safe, but might actually have signed Josh too early.  You got him after what might be the best season he’ll ever have, might have gotten a better deal this year honestly.  Doubt it matters much, but might have given another year of him under control.

 

After being injured for stretches this year - i would expect jackson to hold out if they don't extend him.  

[JGMcD2]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Personally? If I am the Ravens I am paying Lamar Jackson. He is not a great passer, and likely never will be a great passer, but he is just such a dynamic playmaker and they win games when he is on the field that is undeniable. 

 

Baker is tougher. I think I'd let it play out maybe even franchise tag him a year after his rookie deal. He has been battling through a shoulder injury all season this season and I don't want to make a rash decision based on that, but he was a borderline pay or let go decision anyway for me. The issue for Cleveland might be I don't see them bottoming out any time soon to be in position to draft another guy in the top 10. They might be in purgatory somewhat. 

I’ve been having this debate with a  friend of mine who is a Browns fan and I think he’s finally starting to come around on this. 
 

Baker is a fine quarterback, but he’s not worth the $35M he thinks he deserves. It’s not really not even close. His production is worth around $25M. Spotrac has him at $30M but I think that’s too high. 

 

He’s heavily protected by that run game.
Baker is a player in a similar vein to Kirk Cousins, Ryan Tannehill and Jimmy Garoppolo (Mac Jones and Tua Tagovailoa are entering this discussion too). They’re definitely above average, but they need help around them to support them. They’re not able to carry a team for stretches of a season, but they’re not bad enough where you feel like you should replace them. 

 

I think Cleveland is better off paying Nick Mullens around $10M a year for 3 years to run the same offense. The offense line is already top 5 in football, the defense has talent all over the place, spend the $25M you’d save from not signing Baker an use it to stack the offense with weapons. Mullens will give you 90% of the production Baker gives you for 30% of the cost. It’s actually crazy how similar their per game numbers are to this point. 

[quinnearlysghost88]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Personally? If I am the Ravens I am paying Lamar Jackson. He is not a great passer, and likely never will be a great passer, but he is just such a dynamic playmaker and they win games when he is on the field that is undeniable. 

 

Baker is tougher. I think I'd let it play out maybe even franchise tag him a year after his rookie deal. He has been battling through a shoulder injury all season this season and I don't want to make a rash decision based on that, but he was a borderline pay or let go decision anyway for me. The issue for Cleveland might be I don't see them bottoming out any time soon to be in position to draft another guy in the top 10. They might be in purgatory somewhat. 

Huntley is the same player as Jackson in both rushing and passing. Jackson only has 2 multiple TD passing games this season out of 11 and 2 games over 300 yards. Huntley possesses similar running skills too. Both have 2 TDs, Huntley in 6 fewer games played. Jackson has ~500 more yards, which with 6 extra games Huntley could easily cut into. 
 

take Huntley the cheaper option. Get a hopefully big return for Jackson. 

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

Huntley is the same player as Jackson in both rushing and passing. Jackson only has 2 multiple TD passing games this season out of 11 and 2 games over 300 yards. Huntley possesses similar running skills too. Both have 2 TDs, Huntley in 6 fewer games played. Jackson has ~500 more yards, which with 6 extra games Huntley could easily cut into. 
 

take Huntley the cheaper option. Get a hopefully big return for Jackson. 

 

You won't find a bigger Tyler Huntley fan than me I banged on about him coming out of the 2020 Shrine game, but he is most definitely not "the same player as Jackson." 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

3 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

I’ve been having this debate with a  friend of mine who is a Browns fan and I think he’s finally starting to come around on this. 
 

Baker is a fine quarterback, but he’s not worth the $35M he thinks he deserves. It’s not really not even close. His production is worth around $25M. Spotrac has him at $30M but I think that’s too high. 

 

He’s heavily protected by that run game.
Baker is a player in a similar vein to Kirk Cousins, Ryan Tannehill and Jimmy Garoppolo (Mac Jones and Tua Tagovailoa are entering this discussion too). They’re definitely above average, but they need help around them to support them. They’re not able to carry a team for stretches of a season, but they’re not bad enough where you feel like you should replace them. 

 

I think Cleveland is better off paying Nick Mullens around $10M a year for 3 years to run the same offense. The offense line is already top 5 in football, the defense has talent all over the place, spend the $25M you’d save from not signing Baker an use it to stack the offense with weapons. Mullens will give you 90% of the production Baker gives you for 30% of the cost. It’s actually crazy how similar their per game numbers are to this point. 

 

The problem is its rare (especially in todays nfl) for a nick mullens to get you to a super bowl.  I'd say the 2019 49ers are the exception - and look at the 4th quarter of that game and tell me they don't wish they had a better quarterback.  Too much needs to go right for you to win one, and the inability to score quickly can doom you.  

 

The 2017 eagles may work considering they did it with foles - but they also avoided brees and rodgers in that postseason.  Foles also played really well during the playoffs - far above what he's capable of on a season long basis.  The Vikings were probably the "mullens' example from 2017 with keenum.  And they immediately looked for an upgrade after the NFC championship game.

 

Tennessee's certainly set up to be the next team to make some playoff noise with this approach- if they can avoid shooting themselves in the foot.  When they get off game script things tend to go pretty poorly for them.  I'm also not sold on how good their defense is - they're likely looking to avoid having to play buffalo/cincy/LAC in round 2, especially if they're likely to play KC in the afc championship.  

[Doc]

I’d make them both play under their 5th year tenders and reassess mid-season.  Both of them had concerning seasons. 

[FilthyBeast]

Both the Ravens and Browns were prudent and not rushing to extend Jackson/Mayfield respectively.

 

In the Browns case it's starting to look like they will need to begin the elusive search for a franchise QB again. The ravens obviously probably resign Jackson long term once both sides agree to what makes sense and he was having a borderline MVP year before getting hurt IMO.

 

I still think the Bills made a mistake in resigning Allen so quickly because they could have had him much cheaper based on this year's regression and current production.

[quinnearlysghost88]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You won't find a bigger Tyler Huntley fan than me I banged on about him coming out of the 2020 Shrine game, but he is most definitely not "the same player as Jackson." 

Okay, you give Jackson and Huntley the keys to the same team at the start of the season, how many more wins is Jackson honestly going to produce over Huntley? I mean he just lost to GB by 1 with two rushing TDs and he’s 23 haha. It’s not even a hard choice here. 

[teef]

Just now, FilthyBeast said:

Both the Ravens and Browns were prudent and not rushing to extend Jackson/Mayfield respectively.

 

In the Browns case it's starting to look like they will need to begin the elusive search for a franchise QB again. The ravens obviously probably resign Jackson long term once both sides agree to what makes sense and he was having a borderline MVP year before getting hurt IMO.

 

I still think the Bills made a mistake in resigning Allen so quickly because they could have had him much cheaper based on this year's regression and current production.

there's absolutely nothing true about this at all.  you really have to be special to even make a comment like this.  

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

Both the Ravens and Browns were prudent and not rushing to extend Jackson/Mayfield respectively.

 

In the Browns case it's starting to look like they will need to begin the elusive search for a franchise QB again. The ravens obviously probably resign Jackson long term once both sides agree to what makes sense and he was having a borderline MVP year before getting hurt IMO.

 

I still think the Bills made a mistake in resigning Allen so quickly because they could have had him much cheaper based on this year's regression and current production.

They may have made a mistake extending him thinking that Mayfield and Jackson were getting new deals, but not because of Josh’s production.

[Seventeen]

3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I think his injury has impacted him but there were throws to be made last night where he just wasn’t seeing the field. He looked lost. I think they will bring in competition for him this season in some form or fashion. Potentially draft a guy like Sam Howell. Or sign Trubisky (who is from Cleveland). Mayfield seems to thrive when his back is against the wall. That said he may prefer a fresh start. He was not drafted by this regime and I don’t think they are all that invested in his success.  I could see him traded somewhere like Houston. Similar to the Darnold trade last year. The browns also really need a #1 WR any better TEs to get the passing game out of the gutter. 

 

This is most likely the plan ... they can also move up and take Pickett / Corral and sign Trubisky. If Wilson leaves Seattle, might be a good restart for Baker.

[BillsFanSD]

I think the Ravens are in pretty good shape.  Lamar is fantastic, and I'd be shocked if they weren't willing to commit to him based on his overall body of work.  I don't expect Jackson to have a long career in the NFL because he's not a good passer, but they can win with him while he has his athleticism.  They've already shown that they're willing to build their offense around his skill set.

 

The Browns have a serious problem on their hands.  Mayfield's ceiling is "above average starter" and I'm not sure that he'll even reach that.  I'm sure they would love to have a do-over on that draft pick, but that's moot now.  They would be torpedoing their franchise to sign Mayfield to Allen/Mahomes/Jackson money but some (*^*&%^$^#team will give him a big contract if the Browns don't and do they really want to start over with a new guy.  Glad we're not them.