*[EDIT]* Multiple reports Browns actively shopping Mayfield pg. 29/30 - Ravens / Browns in QB contract pickle

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, eball said:

 

I mean, I understand the desire for improvement but that “antiquated and inflexible scheme” resulted in the #1 scoring defense in the NFL.  I think we’re letting 13 seconds cloud reasonable analysis here.

 

 

That defense failed when it mattered most.  The massive investment in personnel and scheme needs an overhaul because no one's content being the best unit in the regular season.  It literally means nothing. 

[BarleyNY]

29 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

The Baker Mayfield era is over. 

 

Just entertaining this scum bag alienates Baker how does it not.  

 

2 trash franchises.  

Meh.  Baker never let anything like that affect him.  He got jerked around in college.  He walked on at Texas Tech where there was an entrenched starter and wound up starting that season for them as a true freshman.  Then after getting jerked out of a scholarship there he left and walked onto Oklahoma’s team where he had to sit out a year.  Then he beat out the entrenched starter the following season.  All he did was start there for 3 seasons and became the only walk on player ever to win the Heisman trophy.  The Browns FO talking with Watson might not do anything more than piss him off Aaron Rodgers style. 

[djp14150]

On 3/14/2022 at 7:31 AM, SoTier said:

 

I disagree.  I can't think of a single QB in this century who went from decent to great because of a scheme or team change.  Matthew Stafford was great in Detroit but was dismissed by many because of the crappy franchise he played for but he was also great with the Rams, only with a good enough team around him to make him a winner.   Both Alex Smith and Kirk Cousins have been well above average QBs throughout their careers.  They were both better when they were on teams that suited them better scheme and talent wise, but they weren't trash even when they were on lesser teams.

 

In Mayfield's case, as the #1 pick in his draft class, if he's not an elite QB then he's going to be a disappointment.  I think that it's obvious that he isn't going to be elite, and maybe he's not ever going to be better than a Alex Smith or Kirk Cousins level QB, a very good starting NFL QB but not a true franchise QB even as good as Stafford or Ryan or Roethlisberger in their primes.  

 

i put Stafford in the same group as Smith and Cousins.  Good enough to win on a very good team

 

too much credit/ blame on QBs

 

i think Lamar’s value was exposed when he missed games snd the team wasn’t much different without him

 

the issue is QBs are paid so much you can pay just avg QBs

 

that “ super class” of QBs is just down to 2.

 

 

[eball]

40 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

That defense failed when it mattered most.  The massive investment in personnel and scheme needs an overhaul because no one's content being the best unit in the regular season.  It literally means nothing. 

 

You're probably not alone in your thinking...I just disagree.  The defensive scheme is fine for today's NFL.  They lost to KC for a number of reasons, but their defensive identity is not one of them.

 

While being the best defense in the regular season doesn't result in any trophies, it's a bit naive to suggest it means "nothing" to look at what a unit did over 17 meaningful games.

 

Again...13 seconds.

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

12 minutes ago, djp14150 said:

 

i put Stafford in the same group as Smith and Cousins.  Good enough to win on a very good team

 

too much credit/ blame on QBs

 

i think Lamar’s value was exposed when he missed games snd the team wasn’t much different without him

 

the issue is QBs are paid so much you can pay just avg QBs

 

that “ super class” of QBs is just down to 2.

 

 

 

Part of the issue with Lamar last year is he was just playing really badly.  He still had 4 4th quarter comebacks, and GWDs.  And if you look outside just... TDs and INTs - he had a better Y/A, AY/A and ANY/A.  LJ had higher air yards in every category too.  

 

Huntley offered similar value as a rusher but less as a passer, jackson broke 11 tackles to huntleys 3 - and had considerably more yards after contact.  

 

Jackson also put up a 37/43 442 and 4 TD performance last season against Indy.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

47 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Meh.  Baker never let anything like that affect him.  He got jerked around in college.  He walked on at Texas Tech where there was an entrenched starter and wound up starting that season for them as a true freshman.  Then after getting jerked out of a scholarship there he left and walked onto Oklahoma’s team where he had to sit out a year.  Then he beat out the entrenched starter the following season.  All he did was start there for 3 seasons and became the only walk on player ever to win the Heisman trophy.  The Browns FO talking with Watson might not do anything more than piss him off Aaron Rodgers style. 

 

I think you're missing a key point of the story, and possibly have a slightly different definition of "affect".

 

There was a previous year starter - but he was beaten out by TWO freshmen.  Davis Webb and Baker were both freshmen.  Baker did beat Webb out to start the season, but after that they were trading starts, and by some metrics Webb was better (Baker had more wins, but I don't know enough college football to judge how the level of competition in specific games impacted that; by some metrics Webb was better 20 vs 12 TDs and same INTs).  (No, I don't follow college football but I was interested in Davis Webb so I looked that up a while back.  Webb got outplayed in college... by Mayfield AND Mahomes).  If interested, here's an interview with Mayfield at the time - he makes it pretty clear it wasn't the scholarship that was the whole issue.

 

It clearly didn't "affect" Mayfield in the sense of dampening his confidence in himself or his ultimate career trajectory, but it seems he was highly "affected" in the sense of being alienated and pissed off after not getting what he perceived as his due (not just the scholarship, but the unquestioned starting role).  He didn't stay and fight for that role, he "took his ball and went home".  Ultimately, of course, it worked out for him.

 

So talking to Watson might be motivational for Mayfield, but it very well might motivate him to say "get me TF out of here if I'm not your guy".  He's already done that once.

[billybob71]

Watson wants to stay in the south where its warm, you can't wave your wee wee around when its snowin out

[Solomon Grundy]

Skip Bayless just lost all credibility with me. Said he’d take Deshaun Watson over Josh Allen!!

[Baba Booey]

4 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Skip Bayless just lost all credibility with me. Said he’d take Deshaun Watson over Josh Allen!!

He had credibility ?? He’s a Dallas homer!!

[TheFunPolice]

9 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Skip Bayless just lost all credibility with me. Said he’d take Deshaun Watson over Josh Allen!!

 

You know what's cool?

 

I can honestly say there is no current starting QB I would trade Allen for, and that's not just being a homer!

 

Mahomes is great too, but Allen can play when it gets ugly, and that is valuable. He's also shown he can play pretty football too, and that was the big question with him.

Edited March 15, 2022 by TheFunPolice

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Mr. WEO]

On 3/14/2022 at 7:31 AM, SoTier said:

 

I disagree.  I can't think of a single QB in this century who went from decent to great because of a scheme or team change.  Matthew Stafford was great in Detroit but was dismissed by many because of the crappy franchise he played for but he was also great with the Rams, only with a good enough team around him to make him a winner.   Both Alex Smith and Kirk Cousins have been well above average QBs throughout their careers.  They were both better when they were on teams that suited them better scheme and talent wise, but they weren't trash even when they were on lesser teams.

 

In Mayfield's case, as the #1 pick in his draft class, if he's not an elite QB then he's going to be a disappointment.  I think that it's obvious that he isn't going to be elite, and maybe he's not ever going to be better than a Alex Smith or Kirk Cousins level QB, a very good starting NFL QB but not a true franchise QB even as good as Stafford or Ryan or Roethlisberger in their primes.  

 

I wouldn't say that.  He had one benchmark season early on--5000+ and 41 TDs.  The very next year, he couldn't break 5000 despite an insane 727 attempts (only 20 TDs).  He would only have 1 more season of at least 30 TDs and otherwise put up Cousins -type numbers.  It may be an overall crappy franchise but they went to the playoffs 3 times with Stafford.  0-3.  In 7 career playoff games he has tossed 13 TDs on 6 ints. 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[TheFunPolice]

Watson is meeting with the Browns today, isn't he?

[Solomon Grundy]

4 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

What’s a 5rd?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

51 minutes ago, djp14150 said:

i think Lamar’s value was exposed when he missed games snd the team wasn’t much different without him

 

Uh, Wat?

 

Ravens were 6-3 with Lamar.

Ravens were 1-3 with Huntley, 0-1 with Johnson

 

Now if one looks statistically, the margins are pretty thin.  But then, that's true in any game, and they're significantly positive in favor of Lamar:

Points for +4; Points against -2; 1st downs +3, Yds +56, Pass Yds +54

 

 

 

23 minutes ago, billybob71 said:

Watson wants to stay in the south where its warm, you can't wave your wee wee around when its snowin out

 

There is this thing called "Central Heating"

[Captain Hindsight]

34 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Skip Bayless just lost all credibility with me. Said he’d take Deshaun Watson over Josh Allen!!

I don't think a single GM would take Watson over Allen right now

[Doc]

43 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Skip Bayless just lost all credibility with me. Said he’d take Deshaun Watson over Josh Allen!!

 

That's why his nickname is "Braynless."

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

I don't think a single GM would take Watson over Allen right now

 

Do Bayless and Watson have the same agent? 

 

While not dissing Allen, Jordan Palmer recently raved about Watson as a QB, his level of preparation and his understanding of the game

 

I think Watson's agents are pumping up the PR forces for him.  Er, maybe I should reword that....

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, BarleyNY said:

Meh.  Baker never let anything like that affect him.  He got jerked around in college.  He walked on at Texas Tech where there was an entrenched starter and wound up starting that season for them as a true freshman.  Then after getting jerked out of a scholarship there he left and walked onto Oklahoma’s team where he had to sit out a year.  Then he beat out the entrenched starter the following season.  All he did was start there for 3 seasons and became the only walk on player ever to win the Heisman trophy.  The Browns FO talking with Watson might not do anything more than piss him off Aaron Rodgers style. 

 

I totally disagree with this take.

 

Baker certainly let those interactions impact him.  He walked on and I believe he started and alternated starting.  When he did not get all the accolades - he didn’t do what others do and stay and fight to win the job.  He took his ball and left.

 

He then went on to do amazing things at Oklahoma, but came into the NFL with attitude.

 

He has already multiple times complained about support and being treated “poorly” by the media for stories that have been shown to be true.  He has a complex and when he perceives a slight - it is not - I will work harder.  It seems to be move me or let me go where I am wanted.

 

I think much like Tua was messed up by Watson early last year - this will have an impact on Baker - especially if the trade falls through.

 

Baker is not mentally strong enough without getting 100% of the accolades and glory - he wants to be the man even if it is the worst thing for the team - see most of last year and the injury.