*[EDIT]* Multiple reports Browns actively shopping Mayfield pg. 29/30 - Ravens / Browns in QB contract pickle

[billsfan89]

Lamar I would commit to. He is a good QB he just doesn’t have a ton of talent around him skill position wise. He has his limitations but he is dynamic in other ways. They have won with him fairly consistently. 
 

But Baker I let him play out on the 5th year option and see what he has. Thus far he has been very injury prone and inconsistent. 

[JGMcD2]

23 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

You listed Herbert, Burrow, Mahomes, Brady and Rodgers specifically. Let's look at their comparative body of work as you call it... 

 

Here are their stats from the past two seasons side by side... please explain to me how the other 5 are definitively better than Josh Allen over the past two seasons. The per game stats are there too because I know you're going to argue Burrow was hurt and that it's not fair because of that... but on a per game basis he's still behind Josh Allen.

 

 

For reference Josh Allen (9845) is 2nd in total yards behind Patrick Mahomes (9944). Josh Allen (86) is also 2nd in total TDs behind Aaron Rodgers (89). Granted Josh Allen (34) also did turn the ball over a little bit more than everyone else. Brady (28), Burrow (25), Herbert (26), Mahomes (25) and Rodgers (11). 

 

I really shouldn't have to include this here... but because you said it's debatable that Josh Allen is behind Dak Prescott, Kyler Murray, Ryan Tannehill, Lamar Jackson and Derek Carr... let's take a look! (It's not letting upload the image, but I'll include right after this...)

 

Compared to this group, Josh Allen (9845) is 1st in total yards... the next closest is Derek Carr (8970)... followed by Kyler Murray (8732). Josh Allen (86) is also 1st in total TDs... the next closest is Kyler Murray (65) and Ryan Tannehill (64). 

 

Derek Carr (36) had the most turnovers. The others were Kyler Murray (26), Lamar Jackson (29), Dak Prescott (23) and Tannehill (26). A quick reminder that Murray, Prescott and Jackson all played less games than Josh Allen. 

 

Rodgers has clearly been the best QB over the past two seasons. It's not even close, the man is on another level.

 

The notion that you're arguing it's clear cut that Josh is behind the other 4 is insane... and then trying to debate he's somehow behind the other 5 is laughable. He's been playing like a top 3 QB - it's just a game of FilthyBeast manipulation if you want to try and argue he's behind the rest. 

 

We can discuss how to measure overall ceiling if you'd like, considering your "comparative body of work" argument doesn't really have legs... 

 

EDIT**** Adding the stats for the next group of 5 with Dak Prescott, Derek Carr, Kyler Murray, Ryan Tannehill and Lamar Jackson.

 

@FilthyBeast

 

I’m assuming you’ve spent the past 24 hours crafting a really well thought out response? 

[Saxum]

13 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Listening to the pressers from mayfield and stefanski yesterday, I think those two are headed for a divorce.

 

Mayfield is the wife with the large alimony in this case but coaches contracts are completely guaranteed unless coach does a major foobar.

[Evian]

Lamar Jackson and Baker Mayfield are mediocre at best.

 

Tyler Huntley is a better QB than Jackson. Jackson will never beat the Mahomes, Allens, Herberts, and Burrows of the AFC. He can't throw the ball. Huntley is better than LJ and is way less expensive.

 

Baker Mayfield is gone. He too is never beating the elite AFC quarterbacks. 

 

The Browns and Ravens have tons of talent. The fact both are not making the playoffs all circles back to their non-elite quarterbacks.

 

I don't see either team giving them big money. They are not worth it.

Edited January 6, 2022 by Evian

[Evian]

3 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

Lamar I would commit to. He is a good QB he just doesn’t have a ton of talent around him skill position wise. He has his limitations but he is dynamic in other ways. They have won with him fairly consistently. 

 

He is a good QB? He threw for 16 TD's and 13 INT this year. He is a great athlete and a mediocre QB at best.  He is like Mayfield. They lack the QB skills to go anywhere in the playoffs against the elite teams. They just are not good enough. 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 1/4/2022 at 7:28 AM, Coach Tuesday said:

Would love to see what Sean Peyton could do with Baker.  Same height as Brees.

 

Interesting.  It also took Brees what, 4 years in Sandy Eggo and Phillip Rivers being drafted, to start looking like he could play QB at a high level.  After which he had a career-threatening shoulder injury and signed with New Orleans, the rest being history

[JGMcD2]

29 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Interesting.  It also took Brees what, 4 years in Sandy Eggo and Phillip Rivers being drafted, to start looking like he could play QB at a high level.  After which he had a career-threatening shoulder injury and signed with New Orleans, the rest being history

Baker in New Orleans is exactly what I would expect when the inevitable split in Cleveland occurs. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Baker in New Orleans is exactly what I would expect when the inevitable split in Cleveland occurs. 

 

Brees always had such pretty footwork.  And he learned to operate within the offensive system

Baker, not so much

[dakrider]

On 1/4/2022 at 2:10 PM, FireChans said:

Cleveland is in the same position the Vikings were 3 years ago. Too good to be terrible. Not good enough to be a true contender. With a QB who will be hard to replace.

 

For that reason, I think you pay Baker. 

Thats funny because Baker reminds me of Cousins, just good enough to lose the close games.

1 hour ago, Evian said:

Lamar Jackson and Baker Mayfield are mediocre at best.

 

Tyler Huntley is a better QB than Jackson. Jackson will never beat the Mahomes, Allens, Herberts, and Burrows of the AFC. He can't throw the ball. Huntley is better than LJ and is way less expensive.

 

Baker Mayfield is gone. He too is never beating the elite AFC quarterbacks. 

 

The Browns and Ravens have tons of talent. The fact both are not making the playoffs all circles back to their non-elite quarterbacks.

 

I don't see either team giving them big money. They are not worth it.

Huntley will get a good contract next year to be a starter next year.  Denver Broncos should go after him and let Bridgewater who wants $25M, walk.

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, Evian said:

Lamar Jackson and Baker Mayfield are mediocre at best.

 

Tyler Huntley is a better QB than Jackson. Jackson will never beat the Mahomes, Allens, Herberts, and Burrows of the AFC. He can't throw the ball. Huntley is better than LJ and is way less expensive.

 

Baker Mayfield is gone. He too is never beating the elite AFC quarterbacks. 

 

The Browns and Ravens have tons of talent. The fact both are not making the playoffs all circles back to their non-elite quarterbacks.

 

I don't see either team giving them big money. They are not worth it.

Jackson literally beat Mahomes this year. 
 

this is a troll post

[YoloinOhio]

1 minute ago, dakrider said:

Thats funny because Baker reminds me of Cousins, just good enough to lose the close games.

He reminds me of a poor man’s trace mcsorley 

[YoloinOhio]

On 1/4/2022 at 9:26 AM, Watkins90 said:

The question is, what does the QB Class in 2023 look like? Is next year the year to bottom out and get a high draft pick?

Coleridge Bernard Stroud IV. He throws the most catchable ball. Melts into thee hand. 149 miles south down 71…. Wyd brownies 

[stuvian]

If the Ravens don't sign Lamar, they're Chicago Bears level stupid. He has carried that team on his back to the point of absurdity.

 

The Browns should release Baker. He's not a fit for their offense. Baker should go to the Saints and insert himself as Drew Brees 2.0. Not saying he's as good as Brees but he's a better fit for their fast break turf offense.

 

So the question becomes what should the Browns do at QB. They need an arm who can compliment the power run game and play well in the cold.

 

As this QB draft appears weak, we look to the FA market. Even throwing in the kitchen sink I don't see Aaron Rodgers or Russell Wilson going there.

 

They could entice Derek Carr, Kirk Cousins or opt for Deshaun Watson pending the legal issues. They'll need an experienced back up who can carry the team for a few games like Cam Newton, Teddy Bridgewater, Tyrod Taylor or Joe Flacco.

Edited January 6, 2022 by stuvian

[DrDawkinstein]

 

 

And so it begins...

 

[YoloinOhio]

5 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

And so it begins...

 

Yikes Bucky 😂

 

[Blank Stare]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

Yikes Bucky 😂

 

[FilthyBeast]

16 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

@FilthyBeast

 

I’m assuming you’ve spent the past 24 hours crafting a really well thought out response? 

 

Sorry been tied up with some things so I could respond sooner.

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and again I'm not disputing Allen being in the upper 3rd of NFL QB's from a statistical standpoint.  He is and only a fool would tell you otherwise.

 

The crux of my argument is that you have to look at the accolades that matter (at least in terms of the 'experts') and prior to 2021 Allen had one good season on film which many felt (and still feel) was fluky because of the covid year circumstances. So if we are debating the fact that his extension was given on potential that's another thing, but in terms of being a proven commodity Allen really isn't yet unless he can elevate this team to another level in the playoffs and at minimum make another AFCCG appearance.

 

But going back to my personal feelings, I'm still taking the guys I mentioned over Allen today because I'm not a biased fan and have seen more pure raw talent to believe they are going to be all time great HOF types that win multiple championships and/or elevate their teams. Allen could be too but still think the odds are against that if anything because of how inconsistent he still is 4 years into his career.

[nucci]

31 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

And so it begins...

 

Maybe start with giving Chubb the ball a few more times a game.

[JGMcD2]

4 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

Sorry been tied up with some things so I could respond sooner.

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and again I'm not disputing Allen being in the upper 3rd of NFL QB's from a statistical standpoint.  He is and only a fool would tell you otherwise.

 

The crux of my argument is that you have to look at the accolades that matter (at least in terms of the 'experts') and prior to 2021 Allen had one good season on film which many felt (and still feel) was fluky because of the covid year circumstances. So if we are debating the fact that his extension was given on potential that's another thing, but in terms of being a proven commodity Allen really isn't yet unless he can elevate this team to another level in the playoffs and at minimum make another AFCCG appearance.

 

But going back to my personal feelings, I'm still taking the guys I mentioned over Allen today because I'm not a biased fan and have seen more pure raw talent to believe they are going to be all time great HOF types that win multiple championships and/or elevate their teams. Allen could be too but still think the odds are against that if anything because of how inconsistent he still is 4 years into his career.

Wait a minute…

 

Josh Allen needs to elevate his team to another level and at a minimum take them to another AFCCG in order to prove himself. 
 

Meanwhile Justin Herbert has never won his division, Joe Burrow just did for the first time and neither have a playoff game under their belt yet. How in God’s name are they more of a proven quantity than him? Burrow (.462) and Herbert (.484) are both sub .500 in their first two seasons. Josh was winning games at a .555 clip his first two years. 

Inconsistent 4 years into his career? The man has statistically been a top 3 QB the past two seasons and has progressed year to year. His numbers are down SLIGHTLY from last year, but nothing that’s overwhelmingly concerning considering he’s still 80% of a top 3 scoring offense in football. His “inconsistency” today is extremely different than his inconsistency as a rookie. Don’t try and lump the two in together, it’s disingenuous. His down games today still result in multi-score wins and his best games have him shredding the NFL’s top defenses.

 

Do you ever read back through what you’ve said and realize nothing adds up? 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 1/4/2022 at 12:59 PM, GunnerBill said:

 

Based on his play this season absolutely you could get similar production out of Nick Mullens. I am a little reluctant to draw too many definitive conclusions on Baker from this season though. I genuinely think he has toughed it out playing hurt when the wise call to protect his value might have been to sit. The question is can you get 2020 Baker Mayfield consistently because if you can in the type of offense Stefanski runs then that is not so easily replaceable and I think he is worth $30m based on the current market. I think that is his ceiling but if he could be that guy consistently he is in that Kirk Cousins category and I'd never advocate moving off Cousins until a guy beats him out. That is why my strategy would be exactly what Washington did with Cousins which is put the decision off. Let him play on the option next year, if you still don't know then franchise tag him for a year. If you still don't know franchise tag him again. That means you have 3 more years to either work it out or to find a replacement somehow (that list bit was what Washington did wrong, they never tried to bring in an alternative and so were stuck when Cousins walked). 

 

Absolutely Cleveland should have sat Baker when it was clear he wasn’t functioning properly as a QB.  Why else bring in Keenum?  He is proven successful in just this sort of system that Stefanski runs.

 

To be fair to Washington, they felt they were bringing in an alternative when they traded for Alex Smith.  He had just had a career year in KC and historically was tougher than boot leather.  That broken leg was just hella bad luck.