*[EDIT]* Multiple reports Browns actively shopping Mayfield pg. 29/30 - Ravens / Browns in QB contract pickle

[Rochesterfan]

14 minutes ago, Roy Hobbs said:

 

Makes you wonder if there's a lot more under the covers with Mayfield / Stefanski. Did Stefanski say why he left Hudson on his own to deal 

with T.J. Watt ? Mayfield could be gone but it would take Haslam admitting he was wrong about his #1 pick. 

 

Not sure the relationship is repairable ...

Agree
 

I don’t know for sure, but Stefanski traditionally runs a play action, quick passing attack with lots of passes to TEs and RBs - quick plays that should get the ball out of the QBs hands - allowing a guy like Hudson to handle Watt because the ball is gone.

 

The Browns run a ton of 2 and 3 TE sets just to accomplish this, but Mayfield was again not getting rid of the ball and therefore things went bad.  I get the feeling both guys were trying to prove a point and both will suffer as neither fits what the other wants to do.  Mayfield is not a quick rhythm thrower - he likes off sequence plays where he is the man.

 

The funny part to me is when Mayfield played within the confines of the system late last year.  Lots of completions- move the chains - let the running game lead the team - etc.  the Browns were good and end up winning enough to make the playoffs and then get that gift of a game in Pittsburgh- their house of horrors.  
 

Mayfield - especially with the injuries - needed to get back into that scheme more than ever, but never did.

 

I think this will be interesting to watch as I agree with @YoloinOhio - I think a divorce may be coming/needed - it is just who goes and who stays and how quickly.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

13 hours ago, Roy Hobbs said:

 

Not so sure Mayfield would be hard to replace with Wilson, Garoppolo, Carr, Cousins, Ryan and maybe Deshaun Watson & Rodgers available. Trubisky would have done a better job than Mayfield this year. 

 

Don't judge Baker on this year would be my advice. He has been playing through a pretty significant shoulder injury. He is now going to have it surgically repaired. Yes, this year's version of Baker is easily replaceable. Last year's version much less so. The true Baker may yet be somewhere in the middle. That is why the Browns should not rush a decision. Get him properly healthy next year, let him play on the option and then if they want to retain him franchise tag him. 

 

Also Carr and Ryan are not hitting the market this year. I doubt Cousins does either unless the Vikings do a full tear down (which they shouldn't). Yea they could get Garoppolo, but I personally believe a fully healthy Baker is probably slightly better. Wilson, Rodgers and Watson absolutely are upgrades.... are any of them going to choose Cleveland over the other options even if they do become available given their own distinct circumstances? 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Franchise tag. Lamar could get signed longterm as he's proven more. Mayfield will likely play out his deal. Franchise tag is perfect for QB's like these with questions.

Edited January 5, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Seventeen]

20 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Don't judge Baker on this year would be my advice. He has been playing through a pretty significant shoulder injury. He is now going to have it surgically repaired. Yes, this year's version of Baker is easily replaceable. Last year's version much less so. The true Baker may yet be somewhere in the middle. That is why the Browns should not rush a decision. Get him properly healthy next year, let him play on the option and then if they want to retain him franchise tag him. 

 

Also Carr and Ryan are not hitting the market this year. I doubt Cousins does either unless the Vikings do a full tear down (which they shouldn't). Yea they could get Garoppolo, but I personally believe a fully healthy Baker is probably slightly better. Wilson, Rodgers and Watson absolutely are upgrades.... are any of them going to choose Cleveland over the other options even if they do become available given their own distinct circumstances? 

 

The question is can Baker return to the 2020 Baker after the surgery ? Confidence is a huge part of QB success and you have to figure he is not only beaten up physically but mentally as well. Lots of batted down passes and Mayfield has thrown more INTs that any QB in the league since 2018. I would agree with Yolo that one of them is out the door and I doubt it's Stefanski after just 2 seasons.

[HOUSE]

The Browns are blaming the lost season on Baker Mayfield injuries

 

I blame Cleveland for drafting Baker over Josh Allen

 

Major screw up in Brownie land

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, Roy Hobbs said:

 

The question is can Baker return to the 2020 Baker after the surgery ? Confidence is a huge part of QB success and you have to figure he is not only beaten up physically but mentally as well. Lots of batted down passes and Mayfield has thrown more INTs that any QB in the league since 2018. I would agree with Yolo that one of them is out the door and I doubt it's Stefanski after just 2 seasons.

 

You think they are going to cut him this offseason? That is very unlikely. The 5th year option is fully guaranteed. They pay him that money whether he plays there or not. 

[Seventeen]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You think they are going to cut him this offseason? That is very unlikely. The 5th year option is fully guaranteed. They pay him that money whether he plays there or not. 

 

Cut him ? No ... but they can certainly trade him and have his new team pick up his 5th year money.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Roy Hobbs said:

 

Cut him ? No ... but they can certainly trade him and have his new team pick up his 5th year money.

 

Great. I bet there is a queue of teams lining up to trade him if he has all the question marks you just set out. 

 

I think Baker will be the Browns Quarterback in 2022. 

[djp14150]

On 1/4/2022 at 6:31 AM, Inigo Montoya said:

When Beane extended Josh last year it was the expectation that Jackson and Mayfield would also get an extension done before the start of the regular season.  That never happened and now those two franchises find themselves with a bit of a dilemma.

 

Despite being voted to the Pro Bowl again (and Jackson's team will beat that drum despite the fact he clearly doesn't deserve it), Jackson has had a down year in almost every category and has not been available due to injury for part of the second half of the season.  He hasn't played well enough to get a contract that is more lucrative than Allen's, but that is what they are going to be asking for and it will be tough for the Ravens as an organization to pay him less.

 

Baker has had a terrible season and is also down in almost every meaningful statistical category despite being on a team loaded with talent and behind one of the best O-Lines in the NFL.  No NFL QB has had more interceptions than Baker has in the last four years. He has evolved into a serviceable game managing QB.  In fairness, he has dealt with a non-throwing shoulder injury that muddies the water this year a bit.

 

Here are how the 3 QBs line up statistically this year through Week 17;

 

Josh Allen 2021 

Games Played; 16

Completions;  385

Passing Yards;  4,168

Comp %;  64.1

Passing TD's;  34

INT's;  15

Rushing Yards; 700

Average Per Rush;  6 yards

Rushing TD's;  6

Rushing 1st Downs;  51

 

Lamar Jackson 2021   -  Pro Bowl 

Games Played; 13 full games (knocked out early in game 14)

Completions;  246

Passing Yards;  2,882

Comp %;  64.4

Passing TD's;  16

INT's;  13

Rushing Yards;  767

Average Per Rush;  5.8 yards

Rushing TD's;  2

Rushing 1st Downs;  48

 

Baker Mayfield 2021

Games Played;  15

Completions;  237

Passing Yards;  2,825

Comp %;  62.4

Passing TD's;  15

INT's;  11

Rushing Yards;  118

Average Per Rush;  3.4 yards

Rushing TD's;  1

Rushing 1st Downs;  10

 

Looking at those stats and watching the arc of their careers, while Josh isn't putting up numbers as spectacular as last year, I think he has proven that the 2020 season was not an anomaly.  He is one of the top five QBs in the NFL by any measuring stick.  Lamar and Baker on the other hand have had a year of inconsistency where they have played worse than last year and both teams are unlikely to make the playoffs. 

 

The fact that neither franchise locked down Lamar and Baker before this season means that the organizations harbor some doubt about them and wasn't willing to commit long term no matter what they say publicly.  They kicked the can down the road a year and the question is now what do they do with the 2021 season in the bag?

 

1.)  Do they make them play out their 5th year options and see how they do before coming to the table? 

2.)  Do they play hardball and negotiate a contract less than what Allen got even though the cap is about to explode?

3.)  Do they go after a free agent QB and move on? 

4.)  Do they give them a contract on par or better than Allen's because the other options are unpalatable for various reasons?

5.)  Do they draft a QB and start over (slim pickings this year, especially at their likely draft spot)?

 

I think Lamar clearly has a stronger hand to play than Baker.   Both franchises are in a corner here.  The best thing for the Bills is for both franchises to overpay for their QB.  It's going to be one of the best storylines of the off season this year.  I've got my popcorn ready. 

 

I'm so glad the Bills aren't in that boat.

 

 

 

welcome to the world of modern QBs.  You are either a star or bust with drafting team.  Mayfield/ Jackson coukd be a back up in buffalo next year while trubidky signs with one of those teams.

[Seventeen]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Great. I bet there is a queue of teams lining up to trade him if he has all the question marks you just set out. 

 

I think Baker will be the Browns Quarterback in 2022. 

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder - I'm sure there are a few teams that would take Baker off the Browns' hands. NYG, Houston, Denver just to name a few. Is Baker better than Darnold or Newton ? 

Edited January 5, 2022 by Roy Hobbs

[GunnerBill]

Just now, djp14150 said:

 

welcome to the world of modern QBs.  You are either a star or bust with drafting team.  Mayfield/ Jackson coukd be a back up in buffalo next year while trubidky signs with one of those teams.

 

No they couldn't 

Just now, Roy Hobbs said:

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder - I'm sure there are a few teams that would take Baker off the Browns' hands. NYG, Houston, Denver just to name a few.

 

He will be a Brown next year. 

[Seventeen]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No they couldn't 

 

He will be a Brown next year. 

 

Sure ... and Wentz is still with the Eagles. 

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/baker-mayfield-landing-spots-texans-washington-among-potential-destinations-for-browns-qb-in-2022/

Edited January 5, 2022 by Roy Hobbs

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Roy Hobbs said:

 

Sure ... and Wentz is still with the Eagles. 

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/baker-mayfield-landing-spots-texans-washington-among-potential-destinations-for-browns-qb-in-2022/

 

Key line in that article:

 

"the chances are Cleveland will opt for familiarity and give Mayfield one more audition in 2022."

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Key line in that article:

 

"the chances are Cleveland will opt for familiarity and give Mayfield one more audition in 2022."

Good, it's settled then.  Media pundits state Browns favoured to win it all in 2022.

😁

[YoloinOhio]

2 hours ago, Roy Hobbs said:

 

Makes you wonder if there's a lot more under the covers with Mayfield / Stefanski. Did Stefanski say why he left Hudson on his own to deal 

with T.J. Watt ? Mayfield could be gone but it would take Haslam admitting he was wrong about his #1 pick. 

 

Not sure the relationship is repairable ...

Yes - He responded that he did have guys set up to chip him at times and there were a variety of reasons that watt had his way, not just the times Hudson had him 1:1, and threw baker under the bus by saying that sometimes the protection was right but the ball didn’t come out fast enough. 

[DrDawkinstein]

Browns have themselves in a VERY Brownsy position.

 

I cant imagine having to commit $200-300M to... Baker Mayfield. 🤮

 

Thank the gods for Josh F'ing Allen.

[Nitro]

Jackson is not a problem.  Mayfield is injury prone and is a hot/cold QB.  The problem  is if they let him go, they will spend years finding an adequate replacement.

[y2zipper]

., With Lamar there's not really a decision here. Baltimore would be silly not to pick him up, especially after this year when he showed he can still win them games with several pieces missing. The wheels didn't really come off until Jackson got hurt. I would look to get them somewhere in the neighborhood of the 5-year 200 million extension on top of his fifth year option and it works out to like 6/223 with a lot of the guaranteed money on the front end of that. It's unconventional and Lamar Jackson probably isn't going to play until he's 45, but it's a no-brainer if you do a contract I get some somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 and then you reevaluate.

 

I'm with @Gunnerbill on Mayfield. This year is really a hard year to judge him or anybody on the browns because they've had so much injury. Mayfield will play on the option.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TheFunPolice]

Lamar Jackson is a dynamic player that you have to game plan for. He also won an MVP. My concern with him is that he is a smaller body type and takes a lot of hits running the ball. But still, he is electric and deserves to be paid. 

 

Lamar is special and unique.

 

Baker is just a guy. There's nothing at all that is special about him. "He's tough" I guess, but lots of guys are tough. It's the NFL. 

 

Baker's not a bust, but he's also nothing special. Very Alex Smith-like in that you could do some winning with him in the right spot, but his attitude needs to improve IMO. Baker thinks he's a gunslinger but he is really suited to be a checkdown, game manager who hands the ball off and doesn't get his team beat. Can he handle that?

 

The game "going through your RB" is not why you draft a QB #1 overall, so he's a tremendous disappointment in that respect. But he's serviceable enough to get you to the divisional round and lose to the Bills, Chiefs, Ravens, or Bengals over the next handful of years. 

 

Sucks to be a Browns fan watching Burrow and knowing THAT is what a #1 overall pick QB looks like. Baker is the 3rd best QB in his own division, and that's only because Big Ben looked 73 years old the past 2 seasons and can't play anymore. 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2022 by TheFunPolice

[Sherlock Holmes]

On 1/4/2022 at 6:31 AM, Inigo Montoya said:

When Beane extended Josh last year it was the expectation that Jackson and Mayfield would also get an extension done before the start of the regular season.  That never happened and now those two franchises find themselves with a bit of a dilemma.

 

Despite being voted to the Pro Bowl again (and Jackson's team will beat that drum despite the fact he clearly doesn't deserve it), Jackson has had a down year in almost every category and has not been available due to injury for part of the second half of the season.  He hasn't played well enough to get a contract that is more lucrative than Allen's, but that is what they are going to be asking for and it will be tough for the Ravens as an organization to pay him less.

 

Baker has had a terrible season and is also down in almost every meaningful statistical category despite being on a team loaded with talent and behind one of the best O-Lines in the NFL.  No NFL QB has had more interceptions than Baker has in the last four years. He has evolved into a serviceable game managing QB.  In fairness, he has dealt with a non-throwing shoulder injury that muddies the water this year a bit.

 

Here are how the 3 QBs line up statistically this year through Week 17;

 

Josh Allen 2021 

Games Played; 16

Completions;  385

Passing Yards;  4,168

Comp %;  64.1

Passing TD's;  34

INT's;  15

Rushing Yards; 700

Average Per Rush;  6 yards

Rushing TD's;  6

Rushing 1st Downs;  51

 

Lamar Jackson 2021   -  Pro Bowl 

Games Played; 13 full games (knocked out early in game 14)

Completions;  246

Passing Yards;  2,882

Comp %;  64.4

Passing TD's;  16

INT's;  13

Rushing Yards;  767

Average Per Rush;  5.8 yards

Rushing TD's;  2

Rushing 1st Downs;  48

 

Baker Mayfield 2021

Games Played;  15

Completions;  237

Passing Yards;  2,825

Comp %;  62.4

Passing TD's;  15

INT's;  11

Rushing Yards;  118

Average Per Rush;  3.4 yards

Rushing TD's;  1

Rushing 1st Downs;  10

 

Looking at those stats and watching the arc of their careers, while Josh isn't putting up numbers as spectacular as last year, I think he has proven that the 2020 season was not an anomaly.  He is one of the top five QBs in the NFL by any measuring stick.  Lamar and Baker on the other hand have had a year of inconsistency where they have played worse than last year and both teams are unlikely to make the playoffs. 

 

The fact that neither franchise locked down Lamar and Baker before this season means that the organizations harbor some doubt about them and wasn't willing to commit long term no matter what they say publicly.  They kicked the can down the road a year and the question is now what do they do with the 2021 season in the bag?

 

1.)  Do they make them play out their 5th year options and see how they do before coming to the table? 

2.)  Do they play hardball and negotiate a contract less than what Allen got even though the cap is about to explode?

3.)  Do they go after a free agent QB and move on? 

4.)  Do they give them a contract on par or better than Allen's because the other options are unpalatable for various reasons?

5.)  Do they draft a QB and start over (slim pickings this year, especially at their likely draft spot)?

 

I think Lamar clearly has a stronger hand to play than Baker.   Both franchises are in a corner here.  The best thing for the Bills is for both franchises to overpay for their QB.  It's going to be one of the best storylines of the off season this year.  I've got my popcorn ready. 

 

I'm so glad the Bills aren't in that boat.

 

 

Are we talking Dill or Bread and Butter?