Josh - 16 games 2020 vs 2021 stats

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Oh I disagree totally you give Josh a Deandre Hopkins or a CeeDee Lamb who you can just throw a ball up to on a contested catch you put this offense in a whole different level 

All great offenses in this league have at least one guy who the qb can throw the ball up to and say make a play Bills don’t really have that 

Case and point what’s happening in Cincy while Joe Burrow has Chase whose basically their Diggs…on the other side he’s got Tee Higgins 

 

See I think the Bills do have that guy. His name is Gabe Davis. They just need to get him on the darn football field more and get the walking stick brigade - Sanders and Beasley in the retirement home where they belong. 

[BananaB]

How many ***** weather games have we played this year compared to last. Seems to me almost every other week we have been in rain, snow or wind.

[TBBills]

Just about every home game has been rain so Josh is actually better in context of the situations he was in compared to last year. 

 

 

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

I wonder why passer rating is not included here. It has dropped 15 points.

[Thurman#1]

On 1/4/2022 at 1:02 PM, transplantbillsfan said:

One other thing left out is that Allen lost only 3 fumbles this year compared with 6 last year.

 

 

It should be left out. It's essentially pure luck.

 

How many fumbles you drop can be said to be on you. How many are recovered by which guys in which jerseys is basically pure luck.

 

He had nine fumbles last year and eight this year. Pretty much exactly the same. The fact that he was a bit luckier this year about who picked them up doesn't say much about his performance. Either way.

 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2022 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Oh I disagree totally you give Josh a Deandre Hopkins or a CeeDee Lamb who you can just throw a ball up to on a contested catch you put this offense in a whole different level 

All great offenses in this league have at least one guy who the qb can throw the ball up to and say make a play Bills don’t really have that 

Case and point what’s happening in Cincy while Joe Burrow has Chase whose basically their Diggs…on the other side he’s got Tee Higgins 

 

 

Yeah, "all great offenses"? No. The Bills are a great passing offense, for one thing.

 

First, as Bill said, we've got a guy who can do that in Davis. And another in Knox. Diggs is really good at high-pointing as well.

 

And yes, a guy who can separate vertically is not a bad thing to have. But having instead guys who can separate horizontally by getting separation is every bit as good. And we have those guys.

 

All great offenses have at least one guy who can go up for it? The Chiefs have been probably the single most dangerous team through the air over the last few years. Their WRs aren't especially taller than ours.

 

Height sure isn't a bad thing, but it's not a necessity. There are other ways to create space for your QB than vertically.

Edited January 4, 2022 by Thurman#1

[dave mcbride]

12 hours ago, artmalibu said:

I think he is better this year than last year.  Stats are only part of the equation.  

 

 

Huh? Allen is good this year, but he was definitely better last season. I mean, the record tells the tale: 13-3 vs 10-6, and this year's defense is a lot better than last season's. He also hasn't come through in crunch time once this season. That wasn't the case last year.

[dma0034]

So basically we drafted the wrong Josh...

 

 

To be fair to Josh this year: I think the WRs haven't been as good as last year. Beasley hasn't been nearly as good. Teams are putting more attentiom on Diggs. I don't think Sanders is very good at all either.

[Dr. Who]

25 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Huh? Allen is good this year, but he was definitely better last season. I mean, the record tells the tale: 13-3 vs 10-6, and this year's defense is a lot better than last season's. He also hasn't come through in crunch time once this season. That wasn't the case last year.

Factor in an abundance of bad weather games and oline struggles. I think he's a more mature player with room to grow.

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Dr. Who said:

Factor in an abundance of bad weather games and oline struggles. I think he's a more mature player with room to grow.

He has had a good season, no doubt. But in four instances -- NE at home, TN, TB, Jax -- he has been in position to win the game and hasn't gotten it done. Vs NE and Jax, he threw to the wrong receiver; against TN, he ran a very predictable sneak that TN read easily; and against TB he threw a high, low-percentage throw to Diggs, who is not a jump-ball guy. Sure, he was interfered with, but Diggs pushed too. Chris Simms faulted the Bills for that play call, and I agree with him. The point is, he made those plays last year (Rams, Cardinals). They lost the Cardinals game, but Allen did his job to put them in the lead.  

[Dr. Who]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

He has had a good season, no doubt. But in four instances -- NE at home, TN, TB, Jax -- he has been in position to win the game and hasn't gotten it done. Vs NE and Jax, he threw to the wrong receiver; against TN, he ran a very predictable sneak that TN read easily; and against TB he threw a high, low-percentage throw to Diggs, who is not a jump-ball guy. Sure, he was interfered with, but Diggs pushed too. Chris Simms faulted the Bills for that play call, and I agree with him. The point is, he made those plays last year (Rams, Cardinals). They lost the Cardinals game, but Allen did his job to put them in the lead.  

More clutch plays last year, I agree, though he had three in the last drive at NE.

[Brand J]

Cant believe some of you are debating which Allen has been better, last year’s version, or this year’s. No question last year he had the greatest season of any Bills QB ever and made the wow throws and clutch plays to back that up. This year he has the jaw dropping throws as well (of course), but it doesn’t feel like as many. He also hasn’t come through in the clutch in any of those one score games. Not entirely on him, but they’re still 0-5 in one score games and in every one the Allen led offense had the chance to take the lead. Last year was elite, this year is excellent - not the other way around.

Edited January 4, 2022 by JayBaller10

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

13 hours ago, artmalibu said:

I think he is better this year than last year.  Stats are only part of the equation.  

 

 

That sack number is mind blowing…our pass blocking has gotten better in recent weeks but it overall has been absolutely dreadful this season 

15 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

Cant believe some of you are debating which Allen has been better, last year’s version, or this year’s. No question last year he had the greatest season of any Bills QB ever and made the wow throws and clutch plays to back that up. This year he has the jaw dropping throws as well (of course), but it doesn’t feel like as many. He also hasn’t come through in the clutch in any of those one score games. Not entirely on him, but they’re still 0-5 in one score games and in every one the Allen led offense had the chance to take the lead. Last year was elite, this year is excellent - not the other way around.

I don’t think last years performance is even close to as good as this years honestly lol think about how bad he looked last year when teams could pressure him with 4 guys and drop 7 in coverage…he faced that just about every week this year with how bad our offensive line was.  Only loss that really felt like he could be the X factor and wasn’t to me was the jags game.  That was the worst performance by an offensive line I’ve ever seen but if he protected the ball a little better we could’ve pulled that out 12-9.  I think there’s a handful of guys that could’ve had the season josh had last year with our weapons on offense and pretty good pass blocking but I don’t think there’s one other that can do what he did this year

[TheBrownBear]

This year really shows you how it's such a game of inches in the NFL.  Bills are literally 3 fluke plays/bad calls away from 13-3 and Josh being #2 in the MVP race behind Rodgers (slip against TN, missed DPIs against Pats and Bucs).

 

But overall, I agree with those who say Josh hasn't been as good this year.  It's clear from the stats and the eye-test.  He's had a few real stinkers, which is something we didn't see much of last season.

[dave mcbride]

8 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

That sack number is mind blowing…our pass blocking has gotten better in recent weeks but it overall has been absolutely dreadful this season 

I don’t think last years performance is even close to as good as this years honestly lol think about how bad he looked last year when teams could pressure him with 4 guys and drop 7 in coverage…he faced that just about every week this year with how bad our offensive line was.  Only loss that really felt like he could be the X factor and wasn’t to me was the jags game.  That was the worst performance by an offensive line I’ve ever seen but if he protected the ball a little better we could’ve pulled that out 12-9.  I think there’s a handful of guys that could’ve had the season josh had last year with our weapons on offense and pretty good pass blocking but I don’t think there’s one other that can do what he did this year

Allen played terribly in the Jags game, refusing easy passing plays all game long. It might have been his worst game as a Bill considering the competition. Yes, the line was bad, but that was partly because Allen was looking downfield all game. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

16 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

This year really shows you how it's such a game of inches in the NFL.  Bills are literally 3 fluke plays/bad calls away from 13-3 and Josh being #2 in the MVP race behind Rodgers (slip against TN, missed DPIs against Pats and Bucs).

 

But overall, I agree with those who say Josh hasn't been as good this year.  It's clear from the stats and the eye-test.  He's had a few real stinkers, which is something we didn't see much of last season.

Stats maybe…eye test I disagree.  Dude had all day to throw most of last season and in the games he didn’t he did not look very good.  He showed up in all the huge games this year and we really are 2-0 against last years superbowl teams both on the road.  Not to mention it feels like we’ve had three times as many bad weather games this year 

11 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Allen played terribly in the Jags game, refusing easy passing plays all game long. It might have been his worst game as a Bill considering the competition. Yes, the line was bad, but that was partly because Allen was looking downfield all game. 

Right I wouldn’t disagree but that certainly happened numerous times last season…he looked completely lost against TEN and KC in back to back weeks. Last season our defense was worse and I can’t recall josh getting pulled in the 4th quarter too often too so there was much less stat padding in garbage time this year 

Edited January 4, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[CincyBillsFan]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Not quite as good as last year. I think that was obvious to all. But those numbers are within the bounds of normal divergence for an elite QB year on year. 

 

If anyone thought last year was some sort of fluke, or one-off, they have been comprehensively disproven.

This is a great point and IMO is 100% correct.  Any doubts that Allen wasn't a franchise QB should be gone. Yet we still get goofy posts & threads from people convinced Allen is not the guy.  Like did you know that when there is a quarter moon Allen's QB rating is 10 points lower? It drives me crazy.

 

 

 

 

 

33 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

Cant believe some of you are debating which Allen has been better, last year’s version, or this year’s. No question last year he had the greatest season of any Bills QB ever and made the wow throws and clutch plays to back that up. This year he has the jaw dropping throws as well (of course), but it doesn’t feel like as many. He also hasn’t come through in the clutch in any of those one score games. Not entirely on him, but they’re still 0-5 in one score games and in every one the Allen led offense had the chance to take the lead. Last year was elite, this year is excellent - not the other way around.

Yea, this season he's only accomplished the SECOND GREATEST season a Bills QB has ever had.  REGRESSION!

 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

4 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Oh I disagree totally you give Josh a Deandre Hopkins or a CeeDee Lamb who you can just throw a ball up to on a contested catch you put this offense in a whole different level 

All great offenses in this league have at least one guy who the qb can throw the ball up to and say make a play Bills don’t really have that 

Case and point what’s happening in Cincy while Joe Burrow has Chase whose basically their Diggs…on the other side he’s got Tee Higgins 

It’s borderline criminal how few plays they have made for josh this year.  Seems like we drop every 50/50 type ball. 

[Brand J]

3 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Yea, this season he's only accomplished the SECOND GREATEST season a Bills QB has ever had.  REGRESSION!

It’s fun to have a QB where this “debate” can exist. Too many years it’s been “is Brian Brohm the answer? Can Tyrod Taylor be our version of Tom Brady? Is Fitzy a journeyman who has finally figured out how to play at a high level?” Those were the days.

[Logic]

Josh's 2021 season has been good enough to prove that 2020 wasn't a fluke, that the Bills were right to re-sign him, and that he should be an upper echelon quarterback for years to come. 

On the other hand, he has been unquestionably less effective this season. Yardage and TDs and INTs don't paint the whole picture. His EPA, AnY/A, DVOA, all those analytics things that make Terry Bradshaw's head explode...all illustrate that his 2021 hasn't been as good as his 2020. But then, anyone with eyes and a little bit of realism can see that.
 

We can blame the o-line, the receiving corps, the scheme, the weather, our opponents adjusting their defensive approach, whatever. The bottom line is that he hasn't QUITE lived up to the lofty 2020 standards. Don't get me wrong, I think he's still had a very good season, is an obvious franchise QB, and is still putting up impressive numbers. I'm just acknowledging that the "regression" narrative DID come true. It's not the end of the world. It would've been very hard to keep having seasons like he did in 2020.


Get the guy a few big, nasty guards and an explosive pass catcher or two and I have faith that he'll have a better 2022.

**Ducking to avoid all the ***** about to be thrown my way for saying an even modestly critical thing about Josh**

Edited January 4, 2022 by Logic