How the Bills have used more Gap Scheme concepts to improve their run game.

[HoofHearted]

6 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said:

the thing is -our strength (as much as you can say it is our strength)  is pulling the 3 interior o line.

 

if you mean not strong when you say  not athletic I would agree with you- we get zero push so when we zone block at least one of the GCG gets blown back into the RB and then they fight to get back to the LOS. it's beating your head against the wall to keep doing this the majority of the time. 

 

they all are better at moving quickly in space than they are at pushing guys back 5 yards like the Colts(who do everything good) or the old Cowboys lines. This way they get a head of steam. 26 can follow into a hole and the backside defenders play catch up. 

No, I meant athletic. Outside of Morse, Dawkins, and Bates we have a bunch of big lumbering guys who don't have great feet and don't move particularly well in the open field and on the second level. The issue you are seeing is that when we run any of our zone scheme stuff it's a zone overtake scheme. The entire OL is on tracks and then have to move in unison in order for the zone overtake to work. Their rules are simple - are you covered or uncovered. If you're covered you block your guy back to the uncovered OL - he'll eventually pick him up - and then you work to second level. You can see if they aren't moving in unison how this is an issue. Our problem is we have a few athletic guys and a few non-athletic guys on the OL - it's a hodge podge of personnel. What they can ALL do however is block down! This sets them on their path right now and allows them to get immediate push. This is exactly what teams like the Colts and Titans do. Tons of gap scheme runs.

[Dr. Who]

Just now, HoofHearted said:

No, I meant athletic. Outside of Morse, Dawkins, and Bates we have a bunch of big lumbering guys who don't have great feet and don't move particularly well in the open field and on the second level. The issue you are seeing is that when we run any of our zone scheme stuff it's a zone overtake scheme. The entire OL is on tracks and then have to move in unison in order for the zone overtake to work. Their rules are simple - are you covered or uncovered. If you're covered you block your guy back to the uncovered OL - he'll eventually pick him up - and then you work to second level. You can see if they aren't moving in unison how this is an issue. Our problem is we have a few athletic guys and a few non-athletic guys on the OL - it's a hodge podge of personnel. What they can ALL do however is block down! This sets them on their path right now and allows them to get immediate push. This is exactly what teams like the Colts and Titans do. Tons of gap scheme runs.

I think Brown is pretty athletic, but your overall point is interesting and probably correct.

[Robert Paulson]

5 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

No, I meant athletic. Outside of Morse, Dawkins, and Bates we have a bunch of big lumbering guys who don't have great feet and don't move particularly well in the open field and on the second level. The issue you are seeing is that when we run any of our zone scheme stuff it's a zone overtake scheme. The entire OL is on tracks and then have to move in unison in order for the zone overtake to work. Their rules are simple - are you covered or uncovered. If you're covered you block your guy back to the uncovered OL - he'll eventually pick him up - and then you work to second level. You can see if they aren't moving in unison how this is an issue. Our problem is we have a few athletic guys and a few non-athletic guys on the OL - it's a hodge podge of personnel. What they can ALL do however is block down! This sets them on their path right now and allows them to get immediate push. This is exactly what teams like the Colts and Titans do. Tons of gap scheme runs.

We see it different 

[First Round Bust]

good analysis and hopeful that the schemes and play-calling are improving, as in no more Jax games !

 

As mentioned our opponent has a vote in our success or failure, and the Falcons front four is below average, so have to wonder why we did not commit to more runs in the first half esp when Josh was struggling...i know he made a lot of alert calls at the line not sure if he was checking into or out of run calls..there also was a 4Q RPO where he gave to 19 and then pulled ii out almost as if 19 handed it back to Josh..almost a red zone fumble...

[Einstein]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Cover1 did a run analysis after last season where they pointed out one change from 2019 to 2020 was a change from gap to zone runs

 

It never made sense to me why did they make that change in the first place?

 

RPO's.

[HoofHearted]

3 minutes ago, First Round Bust said:

good analysis and hopeful that the schemes and play-calling are improving, as in no more Jax games !

 

As mentioned our opponent has a vote in our success or failure, and the Falcons front four is below average, so have to wonder why we did not commit to more runs in the first half esp when Josh was struggling...i know he made a lot of alert calls at the line not sure if he was checking into or out of run calls..there also was a 4Q RPO where he gave to 19 and then pulled ii out almost as if 19 handed it back to Josh..almost a red zone fumble...

Not an RPO - that was Q Counter Read

2 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

RPO's.

That doesn't make sense. You can RPO off any run scheme.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Cover1 did a run analysis after last season where they pointed out one change from 2019 to 2020 was a change from gap to zone runs

 

It never made sense to me why did they make that change in the first place?

If I recall, Moss is much more effective in reading zone schemes, while Singletary is more effective reading gap schemes.

[Robert Paulson]

9 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

If I recall, Moss is much more effective in reading zone schemes, while Singletary is more effective reading gap schemes.

Moss looks like he never knows where the hole is supposed to be or is late reading it and the hole closes. I think he would be better in a gap scheme where he at least has an idea where the hole is.

 

26 had a few nice cutbacks yesterday reading his blocks on pulls/counters. 

 

neither runs zone very well because the interior o line  is in the back field as soon as they get the handoff.

 

Edited January 3, 2022 by Robert Paulson

[WotAGuy]

I just want to jump in here and say I have no idea what the hell y’all are talking about. 

[HoofHearted]

1 minute ago, WotAGuy said:

I just want to jump in here and say I have no idea what the hell y’all are talking about. 

What can I clarify? I'd like for these to be informative, but written in a way anyone can understand and discuss.

[WotAGuy]

3 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

What can I clarify? I'd like for these to be informative, but written in a way anyone can understand and discuss.

You are doing a great job. I just like to make meaningless posts that contribute nothing. It’s my forte. 

[Einstein]

5 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

That doesn't make sense. You can RPO off any run scheme.

 

I answered his question. Why did we change from gap to zone? I think it was because Daboll wanted to feature more RPO's in the offense.

 

At the pro level, it is typically easier to run RPO's with zone blocking than gap. Which is why most teams do so.

 

 

 

[finn]

6 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

There has been a noticeable shift in the Bills philosophy when it comes to their run game over the past several weeks and it has been paying off in big ways. Daboll has increasingly leaned on more gap scheme concepts (think pulling offensive linemen), relying on heavy doses of Counter, Power, and C Lead at various times. What has really helped the improvement though is the incorporation of the Quarterback threat (whether that be run or pass).

 

---Q Counter Read---

This past week against the Falcons the Bills ran Q Counter Read a number of times - each time going for big gains. In this concept Josh is responsible for reading the backside ILB (or scrape player). If that read player doesn't scrape with the pulling offensive linemen in front of him Josh will keep it and run Counter behind his blockers. If the read player does scrape then he will give it to the back and we'll run outside zone off of it. Reading a defensive player forces that player to be "wrong" no matter what they do and allows our offense to essentially play 11 on 10 football. What Q Counter Read allows for is to not only read the backside inside linebacker, but also leaves the backside defensive end unblocked forcing him to make a decision whether to squeeze hard or play the outside zone path by the back. The concept behind this is that whoever ends up keeping the ball is a far superior athlete to this defensive end and will make him wrong regardless of what he does - the Bills are now playing 11 on 9 football and getting numbers to either side of the play based on the read.

 

---Counter RPO---

Another variation of Counter the Bills ran this week for much success was Counter with a backside RPO tagged to it. For Josh it's the same read as the Q Counter Read play we previously discussed. Josh will read the backside ILB and make a decision based on what he does. If the read player scrapes Josh will pull it and throw the slant to the slot receiver right in the area that the backer vacated. If the read player sits then Josh will give the ball to the back and we'll run Counter. Again, reading this player allowed the Bills to guarantee a numbers advantage to where they ran the football and we saw big runs from both Singletary and Moss running this concept.

 

These concepts aren't anything new for the Bills - they've been running them since Daboll and Josh got here - but the increased volume of these concepts has certainly lead to a resurgence of our run game. Go Bills!

Thank you for this. Might be a stupid question, but why haven't the Bills run this scheme more often--and why don't all teams run it constantly? 

Never mind--I should have read the full thread first. Thanks again. Please keep your informative posts coming!

[HoofHearted]

9 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I answered his question. Why did we change from gap to zone? I think it was because Daboll wanted to feature more RPO's in the offense.

 

At the pro level, it is typically easier to run RPO's with zone blocking than gap. Which is why most teams do so.

 

 

 

It's not though - you can run RPO's to any blocking scheme. Whoever wrote that article is misguided.

[Son of a K-Gun]

Great insight, thanks @HoofHearted

 

The run game has certainly come together nicely the last few weeks and this helps to explain what’s changed.  I took a peek at the team rankings just now and the Bills are 5th overall…10th in passing and 6th (!!!) in rushing.  Never would have guessed that!

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Cover1 did a run analysis after last season where they pointed out one change from 2019 to 2020 was a change from gap to zone runs

 

It never made sense to me why did they make that change in the first place?

 

 

The explanation we got last year was that running much more outside zone plays allowed for quick and easy line calls.......which allowed them to run up tempo and gave Josh more time to focus on how to attack the defense in the passing game.

 

They were averaging 8 yards per attempt throwing the ball and in the second half of the season it almost seemed like they didn't need to run the ball at all.    

 

The pass protection collapsed this year though and the passing game has subsequently become much less productive on a per play basis.

 

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, HoofHearted said:

It's not though - you can run RPO's to any blocking scheme. Whoever wrote that article is misguided.

 

I disagree.

59 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The explanation we got last year

 

 

I don’t remember getting an explanation. Would you mind providing a link? I couldn’t find anything.

[newcam2012]

3 hours ago, Motorin' said:

 

Bates has also been really quick out in space. 

What is his injury status.

[BADOLBILZ]

7 minutes ago, Einstein said:

I don’t remember getting an explanation. Would you mind providing a link? I couldn’t find anything.

 

I think Cover 1 touched on it as well but it was Eric Wood who explained the rationale in a couple segments he did on WGR last season.

 

We've had many discussions in the past 14-15 months about the Bills decision to go to majority zone blocking at mid-season last year.

 

I didn't love it........they have a hodgepodge of scheme fits and misfits on the OL.........Jon Feliciano made himself even less effective this offseason by losing a bunch of weight trying to fit better in outside zone.......their RB's aren't really very good in OZ.

 

They signed the athletic Forest Lamp and the Shanahan-SF-proven outside zone threat in Matt Breida.........but Lamp failed to make the roster and I think Breida made too many mental errors to earn a lot of PT this season.

 

[Simon]

7 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

There has been a noticeable shift in the Bills philosophy when it comes to their run game over the past several weeks and it has been paying off in big ways. Daboll has increasingly leaned on more gap scheme concepts (think pulling offensive linemen), relying on heavy doses of Counter, Power, and C Lead at various times. What has really helped the improvement though is the incorporation of the Quarterback threat (whether that be run or pass).

........

 

These concepts aren't anything new for the Bills - they've been running them since Daboll and Josh got here - but the increased volume of these concepts has certainly lead to a resurgence of our run game. Go Bills!

 

'Preciate you doing all these; it's been a great addition to the board!

Thought you might get a chuckle out of this:

 

Why not to type right after a game