Thurman#1 Posted March 10, 2022 Posted March 10, 2022 On 1/5/2022 at 2:06 AM, TheFunPolice said: you can always work the salary cap... Saints always have like -$75 million in space and still sign people and hand out insane contract extensions like the one for Hill The Saints continuous botching of their cap resulted in them having a year after year top three QB and a top five coach and only managing one title out of it. Yes, you CAN always work the salary cap. But it absolutely tends to mean you kick more and more cans down the road and you end up bringing in some guys but at the cost of being forced to make some moves and not being able to make others that you otherwise could have managed. Yeah, I could absolutely get myself a new Ferrari, if I put it on the credit cards. I could. Doesn't mean it would be a smart move. Quote
MrEpsYtown Posted March 10, 2022 Posted March 10, 2022 27 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: I'd love to get him back. Saw an estimate recently he will get a contract for somewhere near $24M for three years. That's pretty close to the threshold for me. The price they have to pay might have a lot to do with whether we get him back. I would guess they want him pretty bad, but there will be some limit in Beane's mind. Zimmer played well, but not as well as Harry did for half a year before his injury and after he finally got over the injury around halfway through last season. Both are FAs. Pretty sure the contracts each gets will show that the league agrees with me on that. Zimmer is an RFA, so much easier to get back and cost controlled. Quote
Thurman#1 Posted March 10, 2022 Posted March 10, 2022 (edited) On 1/5/2022 at 2:06 AM, TheFunPolice said: you can always work the salary cap... Saints always have like -$75 million in space and still sign people and hand out insane contract extensions like the one for Hill The Saints continuous botching of their cap resulted in them having a year after year top three QB and a top five coach and only managing one title out of it. A couple of years back, pre-Covid, they wanted to bring in Clowney, but the cap stopped them. It's an interesting story. If they'd been in better cap shape it wouldn't have been a problem. Yes, you CAN always work the salary cap. But it absolutely tends to mean you kick more and more cans down the road and you end up bringing in some guys but at the cost of being forced to make some moves and not being able to make others that you otherwise could have managed. Yeah, I could absolutely get myself a new Ferrari, if I put it on the credit cards. I could. Doesn't mean it would be a smart move. 28 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said: Zimmer is an RFA, so much easier to get back and cost controlled. And if he were good, the Bills would place a high tender on him because he'd be worth it. If they undervalued him, a team would swoop in with an offer sheet. Then next year he'd be making the big bucks. Think that'll happen? Harry is likely to earn an awful lot more than Zimmer, and not just for this year. And I like Zimmer, don't get me wrong. He's a pretty solid guy but he's been getting paid pretty much his market value. Edited March 10, 2022 by Thurman#1 Quote
MrEpsYtown Posted March 10, 2022 Posted March 10, 2022 13 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: And if he were good, the Bills would place a high tender on him because he'd be worth it. If they undervalued him, a team would swoop in with an offer sheet. Then next year he'd be making the big bucks? Think that'll happen? I don't. But he played well in our system. Phillips has a little pedigree as a 3rd round pick at Stanford etc so I think he will get overpaid, man of the year etc. But the distance between those guys is quite small in my mind, but they will not be paid that way. I place Phillips higher, but not by much. Not 5-10 million $ better. Quote
BuffaloBillsGospel Posted March 10, 2022 Posted March 10, 2022 I'm trying my hardest to like this guy but I just don't understand the love, the guy is injured alot, has a 4 year career total of 1.5 sacks and I get it that it's not his game but I think he's very replaceable. When I hear he could be making an upwards of 5-6M per season I wonder why, I think he's 100 percent replaceable but that's my opinion. 1 Quote
Thurman#1 Posted March 10, 2022 Posted March 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said: I don't. But he played well in our system. Phillips has a little pedigree as a 3rd round pick at Stanford etc so I think he will get overpaid, man of the year etc. But the distance between those guys is quite small in my mind, but they will not be paid that way. I place Phillips higher, but not by much. Not 5-10 million $ better. The value of your draft pick on your future contracts pretty much disappears when you report to training camp. After that, you're judged on your NFL film, performance and value to the team. I agree Phillips will be paid quite a bit higher. I disagree on the reason. And I think the Bills do too. Zimmer's never played more than 43% of the snaps in the games he was healthy. Phillips 55%. That's significant. They like him more. Quote
FlaFitz1 Posted March 10, 2022 Posted March 10, 2022 (edited) Bleacher Report listed their "dream signing" for each team and they apparently think a lot more of Harrison then the people on here who claim he played well in only 6 games during his tenure in Buffalo. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: DL Harrison Phillips John Amis/Associated Press The Tampa Bay Buccaneers sit in an odd position of trying to win now while simultaneously going through a transition period. The defensive front could be hit the hardest this offseason, as Ndamukong Suh, Jason Pierre-Paul, William Gholston and Steve McLendon are all free agents. The team already began to prepare for this moment by drafting Joe Tryon-Shoyinka in the first round last year and extending Vita Vea last season. The group isn't complete, though. Harrison Phillips improved each year he played with the Buffalo Bills, to the point where he became one of the league's better run defenders. He is a highly active defensive tackle who plays with excellent leverage and technique. Phillips may not bring the same qualities as Suh once did, thought the combination of him and Vea would form a brick wall along the interior, allowing linebackers Devin White and Lavonte David to run free. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2954137-every-teams-realistic-dream-signing-in-2022-nfl-free-agency I'd love for the Bills to find a way to keep him in Buffalo BTW - Zimmerman? One splash play and now he's the new shiny object to some. He's not that good - he's depth at best - not a full time starter or even a regular rotational player. Edited March 10, 2022 by FlaFitz1 Quote
MrEpsYtown Posted March 10, 2022 Posted March 10, 2022 48 minutes ago, FlaFitz1 said: Harrison Phillips improved each year he played with the Buffalo Bills, to the point where he became one of the league's better run defenders. He is a highly active defensive tackle who plays with excellent leverage and technique. See a lot of that is hyperbole. Has he improved? Yes. Did he improve every year? Not really. He was terrible for three years and then had a hot stretch over the last 6-8 games of the year in which he played really well. I get it. I really do. I know that Zimmer isn't as good as Phillips, but the market won't reflect that. The team who signs Phillips for more than 3-4 million per year will regret it. Matt Ioannidis is probably going to get cut. He is better than Phillips and WTF paid him too much and he will be available for that 3-4 million imo. Again just my opinion, but the Bills need to be careful what they do with Harrison. In my world, he has not earned a long term deal. Quote
BADOLBILZ Posted March 10, 2022 Posted March 10, 2022 20 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said: See a lot of that is hyperbole. Has he improved? Yes. Did he improve every year? Not really. He was terrible for three years and then had a hot stretch over the last 6-8 games of the year in which he played really well. I get it. I really do. I know that Zimmer isn't as good as Phillips, but the market won't reflect that. The team who signs Phillips for more than 3-4 million per year will regret it. Matt Ioannidis is probably going to get cut. He is better than Phillips and WTF paid him too much and he will be available for that 3-4 million imo. Again just my opinion, but the Bills need to be careful what they do with Harrison. In my world, he has not earned a long term deal. Yeah I am a Harrison Phillips fan but he is a $4M player IMO. Beane has and unfortunate history of paying $6M year for guys to be BACKUPS and $4M for special teamers so a lot of fans have developed a skewed idea of what value is. They need to be able to fill that spot for that kind of money. That's what they SHOULD have paid Star Lotulelei in 2018............that's what his projected value was at the time before Beane blew the got-dam lid off of that. I hope they are developing a better understanding of how they need to manage these positions cost wise. 1 Quote
MrEpsYtown Posted March 10, 2022 Posted March 10, 2022 26 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: Yeah I am a Harrison Phillips fan but he is a $4M player IMO. Beane has and unfortunate history of paying $6M year for guys to be BACKUPS and $4M for special teamers so a lot of fans have developed a skewed idea of what value is. They need to be able to fill that spot for that kind of money. That's what they SHOULD have paid Star Lotulelei in 2018............that's what his projected value was at the time before Beane blew the got-dam lid off of that. I hope they are developing a better understanding of how they need to manage these positions cost wise. I would be happy with Harrison on like a 3 year 12 million type of deal. i'd be good with it. But someone will over pay and cut him in two years. Like Trey Flowers etc. 1 Quote
Matt_In_NH Posted March 10, 2022 Posted March 10, 2022 On 1/4/2022 at 12:06 PM, TheFunPolice said: you can always work the salary cap... Saints always have like -$75 million in space and still sign people and hand out insane contract extensions like the one for Hill They have had to waive a lot of guys over the years, they have signed some but let more go. The narrative that the salary cap is not real is simply not true. Not saying you are saying this but you cannot just sign everyone you want. The cap is real, you can trade future cap for cap today but that catches up with you. It IS workable but it is also true that there is a day of reckoning at some point. You cannot have everyone you want by magically working numbers forever. The Saints are in a terrible position where all the manipulation they did last year resulted in being in the same boat this year. Pretty sure Payton left partly because they wont be able to have the resources he would want. https://www.nola.com/sports/saints/article_7144f39e-8671-11eb-b0ae-4788896c6439.html Quote
TheFunPolice Posted March 10, 2022 Posted March 10, 2022 3 minutes ago, 13 Second Prevent Defense said: They have had to waive a lot of guys over the years, they have signed some but let more go. The narrative that the salary cap is not real is simply not true. Not saying you are saying this but you cannot just sign everyone you want. The cap is real, you can trade future cap for cap today but that catches up with you. It IS workable but it is also true that there is a day of reckoning at some point. You cannot have everyone you want by magically working numbers forever. The Saints are in a terrible position where all the manipulation they did last year resulted in being in the same boat this year. Pretty sure Payton left partly because they wont be able to have the resources he would want. https://www.nola.com/sports/saints/article_7144f39e-8671-11eb-b0ae-4788896c6439.html Oh, for sure... it's like credit cards. You can always move debt around and kick the can down the road paying debt with debt. Until you can't! I agree that Payton realized that the bills are coming due and it's no fun coaching without a top QB. Quote
John from Riverside Posted March 10, 2022 Posted March 10, 2022 2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: The Saints continuous botching of their cap resulted in them having a year after year top three QB and a top five coach and only managing one title out of it. Yes, you CAN always work the salary cap. But it absolutely tends to mean you kick more and more cans down the road and you end up bringing in some guys but at the cost of being forced to make some moves and not being able to make others that you otherwise could have managed. Yeah, I could absolutely get myself a new Ferrari, if I put it on the credit cards. I could. Doesn't mean it would be a smart move. Also lets be honest......this type of cap management is really not a thing with Beane Quote
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