Black Monday(UPDATED: Fangio OUT; Zim & Spielman OUT; Nagy & Pace OUT; Flores OUT; Judge OUT; Culley OUT)

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

 

Bad NFL teams are just weird. Maybe that's why they're bad. 

 

It is a really underrated phenomenon. When people talk about changing the culture they generally think about the locker room and unifying the players. But changing the culture also means the organisational culture.

 

I did it at a semi-pro soccer team here in the UK as a Head Coach. Walked into a job where the team had been losing for a decade and some of the decisions they were making as a committee running the club were astounding. But it was because what had happened is they'd lost any strategic sense if direction and so every decision was made a in a vacuum and the truth is there are very few decisions in life that in a vacuum are of themselves intrinsically stupid decisions. So you can justify most things when you only ever look at that one decision in front of your nose. But when you pick your head up and look at every decision as part of a holistic plan with an end goal you start to see how all these decisions you are making don't fit together. It was a problem the Bills had for years until McDermott arrived IMO, and it needed a leader with a clear sense if who he was and where he was going to shake that up. Denver, the team in your example, are the organisation most exhibiting those loser traits in the last 5 or 6 years since Manning and Kubiak left. The decision to draft Drew Lock isn't in itself a terrible decision, but when you consider a year earlier you passed on the chance to draft Josh Allen to go into a season with Case Keenum.... then that sequence of events obviously doesn't add up.

[TheFunPolice]

57 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Coaching at the college level is about teaching and recruiting talent.

 

Coaching at the NFL level is definitely NOT about that.  It's about scheming and managing people.

 

 

 

I disagree. Everyone who has played for Belichick, for example, talks about how he teaches defense. Yes, some of that is scheme, but getting the players to understand who goes where and why is crucial. You're either learning or you're forgetting when it comes to the NFL. 

 

Rex Ryan is a defensive genius, but his defenses are so complicated that without veterans it doesn't work because he isn't good at teaching the scheme.

 

The best coaches in the NFL are teachers. It's said so often it's a cliche at this point. 

[appoo]

1 hour ago, Bruce Smith said:

I bet Chicago hires Harbaugh from Michigan.  

 

Ryan Day, Justin Fields' Coach, is right there. 

[Saxum]

32 minutes ago, Nitro said:

Look for Chicago, Minnesota Seattle changing coaches.   Nagy was a bust,  Zimmer has hit the wall and Carroll has a roster that needs a rebuild.  I look for Carroll to seek a better gig in college ball.  

 

Carroll appears to need another stint in college to refresh his approach.

[Beerball]

On 1/2/2022 at 6:26 AM, GETTOTHE50 said:

If Hackett gets a head coaching gig, then I will truly believe anything is possible. 

Why is it hard for you to believe that he was hampered by Marrone?

[thenorthremembers]

11 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

I disagree. Everyone who has played for Belichick, for example, talks about how he teaches defense. Yes, some of that is scheme, but getting the players to understand who goes where and why is crucial. You're either learning or you're forgetting when it comes to the NFL. 

 

Rex Ryan is a defensive genius, but his defenses are so complicated that without veterans it doesn't work because he isn't good at teaching the scheme.

 

The best coaches in the NFL are teachers. It's said so often it's a cliche at this point. 

I dont fully disagree with your argument here, but to say Rex wasnt good at teaching the scheme is a bit obtuse, especially when comparing him with Belichick.    Rex's defensive units had an average rank of 13 during his tenure, Belichick's all time average is 8, they arent worlds apart in terms of defensive outcome.   I think Rex's media personality gets in the way of what a talented defensive coach he actually was. 

 

I don't think you're wrong about your assertion that the best coaches are good teachers.  Just feel like a better example is someone like Adam Gase who had an average offense ranking of 26th without Peyton Manning.  

[thenorthremembers]

7 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

Harbaugh is a really good coach. 

 

IMO really good coaches will succeed anywhere because the skills are transferrable. The limiting factor in the NFL is having a QB (see Saban in Miami). Plus, Saban had NFL experience working on Belichick's staff in Cleveland. 

On the topic of hot seats, I can't imagine why the Giants would keep Joe Judge. He's been terrible and he apparently grates on players and coaches. 

 

 

 

 

I agree that Harbaugh is a really good coach.  

 

On the Saban/Belichick/Joe Judge thing, I just dont think their approach works with grown men.   Belichick can get away with it now because Brady won him a bunch of Super Bowls.  But, had he never had Brady at QB, I think he was on his way to being fired in New England, he was 11-16 as their head coach before Brady took over for Bledsoe.   

[The Frankish Reich]

19 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Carroll appears to need another stint in college to refresh his approach.

I still like my darkhorse theory - Carroll and Russell Wilson leave together as a package and go to ... Denver? The Giants?

[TheFunPolice]

14 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

I dont fully disagree with your argument here, but to say Rex wasnt good at teaching the scheme is a bit obtuse, especially when comparing him with Belichick.    Rex's defensive units had an average rank of 13 during his tenure, Belichick's all time average is 8, they arent worlds apart in terms of defensive outcome.   I think Rex's media personality gets in the way of what a talented defensive coach he actually was. 

 

I don't think you're wrong about your assertion that the best coaches are good teachers.  Just feel like a better example is someone like Adam Gase who had an average offense ranking of 26th without Peyton Manning.  

 

That's probably fair. I was at one time an enormous Rex fan, and I hope he comes back to coaching just because he's a personality.

 

Gase is the perfect example, you're right about that! 

[GETTOTHE50]

19 minutes ago, Beerball said:

Why is it hard for you to believe that he was hampered by Marrone?

would you hire daboll or Hackett as a HC

[Saxum]

21 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

I still like my darkhorse theory - Carroll and Russell Wilson leave together as a package and go to ... Denver? The Giants?

Giants more for his wife Ciara if he leaves.  She wants spotlight so someplace where she can get lots of media.

Maybe Nashville if they cut Tanny.

Carroll chuckled about Russell leaving but I think that may be a front.

[Mr. WEO]

6 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

Giants more for his wife Ciara if he leaves.  She wants spotlight so someplace where she can get lots of media.

Maybe Nashville if they cut Tanny.

Carroll chuckled about Russell leaving but I think that may be a front.

 

what other media will she get?

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

I disagree. Everyone who has played for Belichick, for example, talks about how he teaches defense. Yes, some of that is scheme, but getting the players to understand who goes where and why is crucial. You're either learning or you're forgetting when it comes to the NFL. 

 

Rex Ryan is a defensive genius, but his defenses are so complicated that without veterans it doesn't work because he isn't good at teaching the scheme.

 

The best coaches in the NFL are teachers. It's said so often it's a cliche at this point. 

 

Nobody is better at taking low drafted or undrafted players on defense and turning them into stars. JC Jackson is going to be set for life in large part thanks to Belichick

Edited January 6, 2022 by Big Turk

[thenorthremembers]

1 hour ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

That's probably fair. I was at one time an enormous Rex fan, and I hope he comes back to coaching just because he's a personality.

 

Gase is the perfect example, you're right about that! 

I hear ya brother.   I too was a big Rex guy.   The act wore thin a bit at the end here, but cant be upset with the way things have turned out. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

2 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

I disagree. Everyone who has played for Belichick, for example, talks about how he teaches defense. Yes, some of that is scheme, but getting the players to understand who goes where and why is crucial. You're either learning or you're forgetting when it comes to the NFL. 

 

Rex Ryan is a defensive genius, but his defenses are so complicated that without veterans it doesn't work because he isn't good at teaching the scheme.

 

The best coaches in the NFL are teachers. It's said so often it's a cliche at this point. 

 

I think early on Rex's scheme worked, but then other teams figured it out, so Rex countered and that's where/when it became too complicated to work very well.

[Beerball]

1 hour ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

would you hire daboll or Hackett as a HC

When I own an NFL franchise I'll let you know.

[BADOLBILZ]

16 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

I think early on Rex's scheme worked, but then other teams figured it out, so Rex countered and that's where/when it became too complicated to work very well.

 

 

Rex scheme was predicated on the extra violence they were able to scheme up.

 

Goodell basically had Rex and Dick LeBeau in his scope when he made it practically illegal to hit QB's and WR's.

 

Without all the late hits and cheap shots Rex lost a few mph off his fastball.

 

The league had to do it..........there were very few even "good" QB's then.......and guys like Rodgers and Big Ben were supposed to be the new faces of the league and they were getting concussed on a regular basis.

 

 

[Fan in Chicago]

2 hours ago, Beerball said:

Why is it hard for you to believe that he was hampered by Marrone?

Hackett was a rookie OC for an EJ Manuel offense. Recipe for disaster right out of the gates 

[Beerball]

42 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Hackett was a rookie OC for an EJ Manuel offense. Recipe for disaster right out of the gates 

Yes, and Rodgers makes Nathaniel look good. Things balance out.  How good was Daboll prior to working with Allen? I remember many here bemoaning his hire because he hadn't done anything.  But, the fact remains that Marrone is an idiot.

Edited January 6, 2022 by Beerball

[YoloinOhio]

1 minute ago, Beerball said:

Yes, and Rodgers makes Nathaniel look good. Things balance out.  How good was Daboll prior to working with Allen? I remember many here bemoaning his hire because he hadn't done anything.

Im on record that I didn’t like the hire. I’ve come around but still have my issues with him.