Bringing Josh Allen along slowly - Always the debate

[QLBillsFan]

The NFL is littered with high drafted QB’s immediately thrown into the fire too soon. That’s the argument of why the Bills were patient with JA. So now that’s he’s where he’s at what does it matter ? If he started the entire year one he might have been overwhelmed and not where he is now. 

 

[JGMcD2]

4 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Of course he has, and again no way of knowing if they were a little more liberal with the play calling or got him another weapon or two early on, how much better he could be.

 

 

 

 

The whole timeline of where they were as a franchise and roster building really is escaping you, huh? 

[RochesterLifer]

51 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I know I was very vocal that I thought McD and the Bills really brought him along too slow and what we saw in 2020, we could have seen more of in 2018 & 2019.

 

Look it is water under the bridge, but seems every time it's discussed there is always a debate and those backing the Bills (and McD's decisions) will always go on about how raw Allen was.

 

I was looking up Kyler Murray in another thread talking about Allen's 20 Rushing/100 Passing TDs in the first 4 seasons and Kyler Murray may duplicate it next year.  

 

Then looked at Murray's College stats, vs. Josh's and was so surprised how little Murray played in college and very similar totals.  

 

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/josh-allen-7.html

 

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/kyler-murray-1.html

 

And there was no question Kyler was the QB and given free reigns from day 1.

 

Again just something I found interesting......  Flame away.

In this case, hindsight is not 20/20

[QLBillsFan]

4 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Of course he has, and again no way of knowing if they were a little more liberal with the play calling or got him another weapon or two early on, how much better he could be.

 

 

 

 

Also no way of knowing if he would have been worse off by playing more? Beane was cleaning house and not interested or likely able to attract free agent talent at that juncture. So it can go both ways. But we can respectfully disagree. I’m gonna focus on the now and the future. 

 

[TBBills]

Someone is still drinking...

[BuffaninSarasota]

37 minutes ago, Bobby Hooks said:

I for one have never seen this brought up once in the last three or four years. Just kinda seems like OP was sitting there thinking “how can I make a thread where people will pay attention to me under the guise of a Josh Allen debate?” 

You know, you can just post and interact with people and not play this heel role like it’s professional wrestling. 
 

I get it’s kinda your schtick but the thing about schticks are they become tiresome and have an expiration date if you use them too often. 

When posting a thread, if you feel you have to use the “flame away” line you’re kinda giving it away that you yourself know it’s ‘look at me, hot take’ territory. 
 

And if I’m playing this game right… get defensive away! 
 

 

 

LAMP

[Billsfan1972]

2 minutes ago, QLBillsFan said:

Also no way of knowing if he would have been worse off by playing more? Beane was cleaning house and not interested or likely able to attract free agent talent at that juncture. So it can go both ways. But we can respectfully disagree. I’m gonna focus on the now and the future. 

 

And so am I.....  As said water under the bridge and just was interesting seeing Kyler Murray's collegiate #'s vs. Josh's and how different the two coaches approached it. 

 

5 minutes ago, QLBillsFan said:

The NFL is littered with high drafted QB’s immediately thrown into the fire too soon. That’s the argument of why the Bills were patient with JA. So now that’s he’s where he’s at what does it matter ? If he started the entire year one he might have been overwhelmed and not where he is now. 

 

And maybe they win the Houston game as he is more relaxed and prepared.  

 

 

[starrymessenger]

I think Josh saw the field quite a lot his rookie year (12 games). I was one who argued in favour of sitting him because he was obviously raw. I was wrong. I think he could have started earlier but I don’t think that would have made much of a difference in terms of his progression and that he’d be pretty much in the same place today. I rather tend to think that if he had had the benefit of developing in a big school program he’d be further ahead even now. 

[RochesterLifer]

2 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And so am I.....  As said water under the bridge and just was interesting seeing Kyler Murray's collegiate #'s vs. Josh's and how different the two coaches approached it. 

 

And maybe they win the Houston game as he is more relaxed and prepared.  

 

 

And, if frogs had wings, they wouldn't have to whomp their @$$ every time the jump.

[Logic]

Do yourself a favor: go back and watch Josh Allen’s 2018 NFL snaps.

Josh was incredibly raw. His mechanics, his processing, basically everything about him needed to be rebuilt from the ground up.

 

He was also drafted to a team that was in the early stages of a complete rebuild and which needed to rip off a financial band-aid and get the cap right. As such, his supporting cast on offense was historically bad, limiting what could be done on offense.

 

Lastly, the comparisons to Murray are anything but apples to apples. Murray had excellent college coaching, far and above what Allen had, and didn’t have NEARLY the level of mechanical deficiency.

 

Put simply: Allen was very raw, was drafted to a team with a barren offensive roster, and was brought along perfectly. The results speak for themselves. Watching 2018 Josh vs 2021 Josh is night and day. The mere notion that anyone would question the method of development of Allen is ludicrous to me. It was one of the finest jobs any staff has done in league history developing a prospect (with a ton of credit going to Josh himself). Comparisons to Murray don’t have much merit, because they’re vastly different players and were vastly different prospects.

 

Strange thread. 

Edited January 1, 2022 by Logic

[Malazan]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I know I was very vocal that I thought McD and the Bills really brought him along too slow and what we saw in 2020, we could have seen more of in 2018 & 2019.

 

Look it is water under the bridge, but seems every time it's discussed there is always a debate and those backing the Bills (and McD's decisions) will always go on about how raw Allen was.

 

I was looking up Kyler Murray in another thread talking about Allen's 20 Rushing/100 Passing TDs in the first 4 seasons and Kyler Murray may duplicate it next year.  

 

Then looked at Murray's College stats, vs. Josh's and was so surprised how little Murray played in college and very similar totals.  

 

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/josh-allen-7.html

 

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/kyler-murray-1.html

 

And there was no question Kyler was the QB and given free reigns from day 1.

 

Again just something I found interesting......  Flame away.

 

I like when people are like, "I'm gonna say something dumb! Flame Away!" like it makes it less dumb somehow. 

[billsfan1959]

12 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Of course he has, and again no way of knowing if they were a little more liberal with the play calling or got him another weapon or two early on, how much better he could be.

 

In Allen's first year, the team was not in any position to surround him with more talent after purging the roster of unwanted contratcs. As a result, he literally had the worst offensive line and receiving corps in the NFL, and maybe on any NFL team in recent memory. The truth is, Allen should have never seen the field that first year. If you want to blame the front office and coaching staff for anything, it was not having an experienced veteran QB that Allen could learn under. When he did play, he literally didn't have the talent around him to "open things up." 

 

QBs that experienced some level of real success their first years, like Mahomes, Murray, Mayfield, etc., went into situations with much more offensive talent around them.

 

Those are not excuses, they are simply facts. Of course you know this.

 

You said in another post above, "I always looked at it with rose coloured glasses." I don't think anyone here would accuse you of that. Kinda the opposite...

 

...You just can't stop complaining.

[JGMcD2]

4 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And so am I.....  As said water under the bridge and just was interesting seeing Kyler Murray's collegiate #'s vs. Josh's and how different the two coaches approached it.

Kyler’s collegiate numbers came from 1 season where he dominated against Power 5 schools. He was a 5-star recruit that transferred and had to sit out 1 season. Then sat behind heisman winner and #1 overall pick… before he did it himself 
 

Josh’s collegiate numbers were across 2 seasons where he struggled against some of the bigger schools he played and took a step back after returning to school in 2017. 
 

What exactly are you trying to show? 

[Scott7975]

Josh Allen has 2 playoff wins.  Murray has one lucky pass.

 

Honestly, like most of your other threads, I don't understand the point of this thread.  Allen has been brought along just fine.  Allen is what he is today because of his hard work, dedication, and a killer desire to be the best and win.

[Logic]

The funny thing about this thread is that it’s titled “always the debate”, but there ISN’T a debate in this case.

 

Basically everyone in the world agrees that the development of Josh Allen is one of the best ever player development jobs in league history and was a rare feat.

 

There’s no debate.

[QLBillsFan]

1 minute ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And so am I.....  As said water under the bridge and just was interesting seeing Kyler Murray's collegiate #'s vs. Josh's and how different the two coaches approached it. 

 

And maybe they win the Houston game as he is more relaxed and prepared.  

 

 

Ok sure that’s the logic of your argument is based on maybes. You seem to miss the point. Maybe early losses and pressure when he wasn’t ready may have permanently damaged his development. On a team that clearly was not a SB contender. But maybe 🤔 😂, like you I’m not sure. 
 

What I’m sure of now is the development of JA has made him what he is today. 

[Beast]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Flame away.

 

You did enough of that yourself with that take.

[Billsfan1972]

And if all the QBs thrown into the fire that failed, if only McD had coached them and brought them along slowly, they'd be stars now.

 

 

 

 

[Chandler#81]

I know. New year, new leaf.. I .. I just can’t. 🤷‍♂️