A Breakdown of the 31 yard run by Damien Harris

[Rochesterfan]

7 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

If he plays the cutback then there is no cutback, and the play runs as it was designed to. Everyone has a role in run defense. You have a gap assignment on every single call, and if you don't fit your gap or have two guys in one gap you get gashed. Expecting a player to be responsible for two gaps is asinine. 

 

Exactly and either way the “fan base” grades him a minus for doing his job correctly.

 

Could it be better - yep, but unless there was a switch the hole was there for Johnson and Jackson to fill.

[HoofHearted]

4 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

I'm not buying that at all. 1. The defense communicates "run" and sometimes even who has the ball while the play is going on and 2. Harris is in Dane's field of vision as the play unfolds. They have to be communicating effectively and Dane has to be more aware so that he's not so easily taken out of the play. If he has tunnel vision on his man, then he has "bad eyes." The play is in front of him like it is for the safety.

 

A receiver running a vertical that turns a DB's eyes away from the play is totally different.

You can disagree all you’d like - buts that’s how it’s taught. That’s his assignment - he HAS to be in chase until his guy engages with a defender to block. That’s how man coverage works.

1 minute ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

You lost me at 3, 5, 9 technique.  Nice try, but I'm at ABC level in my analysis.  My Edmunds and Ford reports are See Spot Run, while your breakdown is Ulysses.

We’ll learn ya something big fella! Gets a whole lot more interesting when you do!

[Freddie's Dead]

2 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

We’ll learn ya something big fella! Gets a whole lot more interesting when you do!

 

I'll do some reading this week to try to get up to speed.  Right now I read your stuff, and it might as well be written in Ancient Greek.  I appreciate your stuff, I just don't understand it yet.  LOL, listening to yet another caller on OBL that said "49 overran the play!"  Now there's some penetrating analysis.

[MasterStrategist]

17 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

What he didn't do is recognize the potential cut back coming.........and that's a feel/instinct thing.

 

Edmunds doesn't make plays because he lacks to ability to process and anticipate.........he's the embodiment of checker player at MLB.

 

That hokey-pokey he played with the Pats RB in pass pro where the scrub just ran a circle around him allowing feeble Mac to hit him for a first down was another Edmunds gem.

 

If he had the instincts of AJ Klein he'd be an NFLDPOY candidate.

He sees a pulling guard, his "key / gap assignment", is to scrape not sit and wait for a cutback.

 

On his "hokey pokey" as you call it (or angle route), that's the most difficult route for a MLB to cover 1-1.  He also covered it great 3x during the game.

 

How about the NE 4th and 1, where they ran a stretch to the weak side and Edmunds made an unbelievable play to scrape and tackle him for a gain of 3 (otherwise that might have been a huge play)?

 

How about his "insticts" on the many times NE tried to hit Hunter Henry on deeper drags but Edmunds was there to pick it up?

 

Both Sean and Frazier have said high remarks about Tremaine, and we as fans don't know the exact assignment on each play.   I'll go with their judgment and what my eyes tell me, which is he's a above average MLB (not a superstar) but very good and gives them a lot of options in pass coverage/disguises/blitzes because of his skills.

 

[Freddie's Dead]

Just now, MasterStrategist said:

He sees a pulling guard, his "key / gap assignment", is to scrape not sit and wait for a cutback.

 

On his "hokey pokey" as you call it (or angle route), that's the most difficult route for a MLB to cover 1-1.  He also covered it great 3x during the game.

 

How about the NE 4th and 1, where they ran a stretch to the weak side and Edmunds made an unbelievable play to scrape and tackle him for a gain of 3 (otherwise that might have been a huge play)?

 

How about his "insticts" on the many times NE tried to hit Hunter Henry on deeper drags but Edmunds was there to pick it up?

 

Both Sean and Frazier have said high remarks about Tremaine, and we as fans don't know the exact assignment on each play.   I'll go with their judgment and what my eyes tell me, which is he's a above average MLB (not a superstar) but very good and gives them a lot of options in pass coverage/disguises/blitzes because of his skills.

 

 

I liked the two times he absolutely flattened Jacobi Meyers over the middle.  On the second one, Meyers got up really slowly and looked wobbly as *****.  I gave Edmunds a game ball, but everyone else is stuck on the 31 yard run.

[BADOLBILZ]

6 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

If he plays the cutback then there is no cutback, and the play runs as it was designed to. Everyone has a role in run defense. You have a gap assignment on every single call, and if you don't fit your gap or have two guys in one gap you get gashed. Expecting a player to be responsible for two gaps is asinine. 

 

 

 

If there is one thing that opponents can count on with the Bills defense..........it's that Edmunds will be right where they expect him to be.

 

He might hesitate a bit or take a poor angle, use bad technique or miss a tackle............but that's just a bonus because the important part is that he will always respond to what the offensive coordinator wants him to.   Nothing more.   

 

There is no more physically gifted MLB in the NFL than Edmunds but a great MLB is also a reflection of the RB in the run game.........he anticipates the weaknesses in the front and anticipates the decisions the RB will make.    Edmunds isn't that.    He's an edge athlete playing MLB.

 

 

 

[CircleTheWagons99]

2 hours ago, eee1776 said:

49 Over ran the play

I thought so too but noticed Johnson WAY over ran it more then him.  Edmunds was blocked pretty quick

 

[HoofHearted]

10 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

He sees a pulling guard, his "key / gap assignment", is to scrape not sit and wait for a cutback.

 

On his "hokey pokey" as you call it (or angle route), that's the most difficult route for a MLB to cover 1-1.  He also covered it great 3x during the game.

 

How about the NE 4th and 1, where they ran a stretch to the weak side and Edmunds made an unbelievable play to scrape and tackle him for a gain of 3 (otherwise that might have been a huge play)?

 

How about his "insticts" on the many times NE tried to hit Hunter Henry on deeper drags but Edmunds was there to pick it up?

 

Both Sean and Frazier have said high remarks about Tremaine, and we as fans don't know the exact assignment on each play.   I'll go with their judgment and what my eyes tell me, which is he's a above average MLB (not a superstar) but very good and gives them a lot of options in pass coverage/disguises/blitzes because of his skills.

 

That 4th and 1 play was unbelievable by Edmunds. Our end (Rousseau I think?) got reached but Tremaine covered for him. Gave up the 1st but we were in 0 right there. It’d likely have been a touchdown.

[BADOLBILZ]

6 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

he's a above average MLB (not a superstar) 

 

 

We are in total agreement on this so thou doth protest far too much.

 

He WOULD be a superstar if he had the skills that would be defined as "instinctive" though.

 

But hey,  when the Bills D is playing the Patriots O..........if you are pleased that the most physically talented player on the field for either team is performing "above average" in a league where his position is greatly de-valued...........then you are free to love how that's paying off.

 

[34-78-83]

Until some of our fans realize that we play a 2 backer Nickel scheme which alters gap responsibility as compared to an actual 4-3, and also prioritizes what the lbs do in coverage of areas ( very rarely man on man) and pass off eligible receivers to other zone defense areas, they’ll never be satisfied with Edmund’s play. That’s fine and even understandable. I think Edmund’s won’t get all the $ some defenders that make more game changing plays get on the second contract, but I do feel like he’ll be re-signed here and deservedly so. If his agent gets too greedy and asks for Leonard or R Smith $, we’ll then maybe we’ll have a problem. He does ALOT of what the coaches want him to do well, and as I’ve often said this season is bringing the wood more often… And thanks for the break down Hoof. It’s funny that there are still folks that try to debate detailed film based analysis such as that. I think it’s more the “facts are now debatable” world that we live in now.

[Coach Tuesday]

Other than that and a couple other plays, I thought Horrible Harry played really well yesterday.

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, NewEra said:

I thought edmunds played a solid game. 

 

Yep.

 

Levi Wallace did too.

 

Fortunately it wasn't one of those days where they needed plays made because the offense was scoring or burying the Pats against their own goal line on every drive.

 

McDermott deserves a ton of credit for not just trusting his defense because it wasn't gonna' be their day if he did.

[Max Fischer]

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

What he didn't do is recognize the potential cut back coming.........and that's a feel/instinct thing.

 

Edmunds doesn't make plays because he lacks to ability to process and anticipate.........he's the embodiment of checker player at MLB.

 

That hokey-pokey he played with the Pats RB in pass pro where the scrub just ran a circle around him allowing feeble Mac to hit him for a first down was another Edmunds gem.

 

If he had the instincts of AJ Klein he'd be an NFLDPOY candidate.

 

And some folks will put the blame on Edmunds regardless of the failure of the coaches and 10 other players. 

[NewEra]

10 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Yep.

 

Levi Wallace did too.

 

Fortunately it wasn't one of those days where they needed plays made because the offense was scoring or burying the Pats against their own goal line on every drive.

 

McDermott deserves a ton of credit for not just trusting his defense because it wasn't gonna' be their day if he did.

He did. Levi has been much better than I gave him credit for this offseason. He’s a capable Cb2 and I hope we can resign him to a team friendly deal.  If not, it’ll be next man up and Dane will take the reigns. I prefer to have both as long as Levi isn’t too expensive. 
 

loads to credit to mcdermott, Frazier and Daboll this week. First team in history to not attempt a punt vs a Belichick D.  Impressive.  Let’s just hope they can get the same type of pass protection going forward.   That said, Belichick made it easy on the OL with his vanilla play calling on D

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

If he plays the cutback then there is no cutback, and the play runs as it was designed to. Everyone has a role in run defense. You have a gap assignment on every single call, and if you don't fit your gap or have two guys in one gap you get gashed. Expecting a player to be responsible for two gaps is asinine. 

 

A lot of great defensive players will abandon their responsibility when a play is there to be made. But that requires great instincts which Edmunds obviously does not have. I would refer to Tre White as an example of what I mean. A lot of his interceptions happen when he abandons his man or zone because he anticipates where the QB is about to throw the ball. Even Levi Wallace had a pick like that against the Dolphins.

 

That's what an elite game changing defensive player brings to the table. The athletic and technical ability to follow the rules of the defense, but also the intelligence to break them when doing so creates the better play. The best of them will even bait the offensive player into making a move that they are ready to stop. That's the difference between playing checkers and playing chess.

 

So sure, Edmunds had a fine play and filled his responsibility. A better player would have anticipated the cut back and been ready to stop it. Edmunds is what he is at this point. An elite athlete with a below average feel for the game. I think that's all he will ever be.

Edited December 27, 2021 by HappyDays

[Coach Tuesday]

26 minutes ago, NewEra said:

He did. Levi has been much better than I gave him credit for this offseason. He’s a capable Cb2 and I hope we can resign him to a team friendly deal.  If not, it’ll be next man up and Dane will take the reigns. I prefer to have both as long as Levi isn’t too expensive. 
 

loads to credit to mcdermott, Frazier and Daboll this week. First team in history to not attempt a punt vs a Belichick D.  Impressive.  Let’s just hope they can get the same type of pass protection going forward.   That said, Belichick made it easy on the OL with his vanilla play calling on D

My issue with Levi is that he’s made of glass.  Every time he falls down hard or makes a tough tackle I worry he’s not going to get up again.

[HOUSE]

Who wears 49 ?  Let me google this ....

 

Oh nooooooooo

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, 34-78-83 said:

Until some of our fans realize that we play a 2 backer Nickel scheme which alters gap responsibility as compared to an actual 4-3, and also prioritizes what the lbs do in coverage of areas ( very rarely man on man) and pass off eligible receivers to other zone defense areas, they’ll never be satisfied with Edmund’s play. That’s fine and even understandable. I think Edmund’s won’t get all the $ some defenders that make more game changing plays get on the second contract, but I do feel like he’ll be re-signed here and deservedly so. If his agent gets too greedy and asks for Leonard or R Smith $, we’ll then maybe we’ll have a problem. He does ALOT of what the coaches want him to do well, and as I’ve often said this season is bringing the wood more often… And thanks for the break down Hoof. It’s funny that there are still folks that try to debate detailed film based analysis such as that. I think it’s more the “facts are now debatable” world that we live in now.

 

 

No, that's not it.

 

Nickel has been the official base defense of the NFL for years now.

 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

He changed it up quite a bit actually… they just had no answers for Allen. He made them pay no matter what they did schematically. 

I made the comment in the game day thread, Levi seems to get nicked up every single game.

How did they change it up?  I haven’t rewatched the game yet. Any clue how many times they rushed more than 4 guys?

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

A lot of great defensive players will abandon their responsibility when a play is there to be made. But that requires great instincts which Edmunds obviously does not have. I would refer to Tre White as an example of what I mean. A lot of his interceptions happen when he abandons his man or zone because he anticipates where the QB is about to throw the ball. Even Levi Wallace had a pick like that against the Dolphins.

 

That's what an elite game changing defensive player brings to the table. The athletic and technical ability to follow the rules of the defense, but also the intelligence to break them when doing so creates the better play. The best of them will even bait the offensive player into making a move that they are ready to stop. That's the difference between playing checkers and playing chess.

 

So sure, Edmunds had a fine play and filled his responsibility. A better player would have anticipated the cut back and been ready to stop it. Edmunds is what he is at this point. An elite athlete with a below average feel for the game. I think that's all he will ever be.

 

 

This concept is very hard for a lot of the Edmunds apologists to reconcile.

 

They are so caught up trying to be the polar opposite of the "Edmunds sucks" contingent that they don't realize that the answer is in the middle.

 

He's the most physically talented MLB in the NFL.    The size and athleticism combo is pretty unique.

 

So being a top 10-12 MLB/ILB.........a devalued position.........is still a considerable underachievement.

 

 

Edited December 28, 2021 by BADOLBILZ