Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 26, 2021 Posted December 26, 2021 19 hours ago, 97bills said: I don’t no man, it did catch me off guard but then I started to lough. But after that I started to ask him why he didn’t want to take it. And he said he wasn’t a fan of new medicine. Maybe so, but his still human and can have his on opinion. Personally, I would suggest finding a new physician. I want my doctor to base his medical judgements on data and a fact-based risk assessment, and I wouldn't want to feel I'm going to be denied potentially effective new treatments because my doctor has some sweeping generalization he trots out like "isn't a fan of new medicine". That's just my opinion. On 12/24/2021 at 9:13 PM, Governor said: Another un-vaxed starter. That’s like 8 or 9 that we know of now correct? Incorrect. On 12/24/2021 at 9:13 PM, Governor said: So, as some have said, it really is half of the starters on this team. Also incorrect. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 26, 2021 Posted December 26, 2021 1 hour ago, Brueggs said: Keep your post. I have no intention of offending anyone. I am not calling anyone names here... I realize this is a topic that has a lot of people divided. If my opinion is what offends you, I can only change my opinion, or be silent. If I change it to protect other peoples feelings, I am not being honest. If I am silent, I allow those of dissenting opinions to propagate what I disagree with. If I change my opinion based on evidence that changes my perspective, the debate creates growth and everyone benefits...as it should be. Being that this is about football, and the availability of some players based on vaxx status, I was simply pointing out, based on the information in that article, that the vast majority appear to be vaccinated. The different protocols don't make sense. In fact, the argument could be made that the less frequent testing of the vaccinated has contributed to the spread. I understand the argument about the unvaxxed potentially having greater complications to the individual, but I have yet to hear anyone explain how the transmission rate is any different from one to the other...hence the need for the NFL to provide equal protocols. Brueggs, no offense, but if you don't understand how the transmission rate is any different from vaccinated to unvaccinated...you simply aren't honestly investigating the matter to the point where you should be offering an opinion, because there is are a lot of data out there. I can think of at least 7 studies and additional data from health departments showing that in fact, that was very much the case with Alpha, it was still the case albeit a lower effect with Delta. Here are some data I put in the "Facts" thread this summer in response to a post similar to yours: This This It remains to be seen with Omicron. I haven't yet seen any population data comparing vaccinated and unvaccinated spread: in the populations I'm aware of which test absolutely everyone regularly (the NFL or Cornell), the overwhelming majority of the population, 95% or 97%, is vaccinated. You'd need to do something like enroll ~6,000 vaccinated and unvaccinated people in a study and test them every week to be able to gather appropriate data on infection/transmission. In preseason (on which the season protocols were based) Dr Sills (NFL CMO) stated their data were that vaccinated were 7x less likely to be infected with Covid than unvaccinated players and they were not seeing intra-facility transmission. (A person who tests positive continues to test positive for a median of ~20 days, so testing 1x a week shouldn't factor into detecting infections). Recently he said titers in vaccinated players decline more rapidly and they have fewer symptoms and overall return to play more quickly, although only 20% of them return in <10 days. The NFL has not made these data public, so take that as you will. Since the NFL pivoted to requiring "enhanced protocols" with universal masking and distancing, I think it's reasonable to infer that they were seeing intra-facility transmission take place with Omicron so concluded having unmasked vaccinated players strolling about was a Bad Idea. Time will tell if they made the right decision on testing. Having read a transcript of Sills press conference, I understand how they're thinking about it. I'm not sure it's the right strategy, but it's not my call. The Bills are believed to have 6 unvaccinated players (91% vaccinated per Beane, which is lower than league average). They have 69 players (53 roster + 16 PS) Of them, 4 or 5 unvaccinated players are recently infected (Beasley, Davis, Lotulelei, Brown, possibly Ford based on preseason comments). That's at best, 66% infection, maybe as high as 83%. The Bills have had 13 or 14 other players infected this season (total of 18 players on list). That's at worst, 20% infection at best 18%. These data from our Bills would indicate vaccinated players are 3x to 5x more likely to be infected, assuming an equal probability of exposure. Please bear in mind that this is a Football site, and that we try to limit the discussion on here to football relevance - yes, me too - so please consider that when "scratching the itch" to not "allow dissenting opinions to propegate".
Dr. Who Posted December 26, 2021 Posted December 26, 2021 1 hour ago, Brueggs said: Keep your post. I have no intention of offending anyone. I am not calling anyone names here... I realize this is a topic that has a lot of people divided. If my opinion is what offends you, I can only change my opinion, or be silent. If I change it to protect other peoples feelings, I am not being honest. If I am silent, I allow those of dissenting opinions to propagate what I disagree with. If I change my opinion based on evidence that changes my perspective, the debate creates growth and everyone benefits...as it should be. Being that this is about football, and the availability of some players based on vaxx status, I was simply pointing out, based on the information in that article, that the vast majority appear to be vaccinated. The different protocols don't make sense. In fact, the argument could be made that the less frequent testing of the vaccinated has contributed to the spread. I understand the argument about the unvaxxed potentially having greater complications to the individual, but I have yet to hear anyone explain how the transmission rate is any different from one to the other...hence the need for the NFL to provide equal protocols. I sent you a PM. You continue to utterly misread the nature of my post.
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