Are the Patriots a rival?

[Bubba Gump]

Puck the Fats!!!

[Greg S]

You could probably make a good case that during their 20 year run that the Bills, Jets, Dolphins wouldn't make the top 5 on the Pats rivalry list. Early on it was the Colts and Ravens with the Brady vs Manning and Brady vs the Lewis led Ravens playing in big regular season/playoff games. Then it was the Broncos with Manning and Steelers with Ben who would face them in big games. Then the Giants (the NFC we only play once every four years Giants) beat them on the biggest stage twice including ruining their hopes of an 18-0 season. The Colts, Ravens, Steelers, Broncos, Giants were bigger rivals to the Pats then their current divisional rivals.

Edited December 23, 2021 by Greg S

[Another Fan]

7 hours ago, streetkings01 said:

Brady was 24-12 against the Dolphins …….a winning home record means what exactly? Talent wise the Dolphins were a better team than the Bills during that span…..easier to attract free agents down to South Beach than Orchard Park.

 

29-7 vs Jets

12-3 vs Colts

9-0 vs Falcons

7-1 vs Browns & Bengals

6-0 vs Cowboys

6-0 vs Vikings

9-3 vs Steelers 

7-2 vs Chargers

6-2 vs Ravens

 

Looked like everybody got that work against the Patriots not just us lol

In the big picture you’re right brother just seemed the Jets and Dolphins got at least a little more moments in the sun versus them than us as fans over the years.

 

Plus it’s never easy being flashed the Bills are the team Brady has the most wins against.  

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I feel like we have a better team than the Patriots and we should beat them. 

[PolishDave]

Am I the only one who thinks of every other AFC East team as our rivals?

 

I effin hate the Dolphins and rejoice in their demise!

I effin hate the Jets and rejoice in their demise!

I effin hate the Patriots and anything connected to that organization and rejoice in all their demise!  

 

During the Brady years I hated the Patriots so much I would rather see the Patriots lose a game than see the Bills win a game.   It brought more joy to my life.   It is great to be back in a place where I now enjoy a Bills win more.   But I still do enjoy seeing the Patriots lose - every single time!   It makes me smile.

[Mr. WEO]

11 hours ago, Success said:

When we play the Pats, I always check out their boards.  It can be an eye-opener. 

 

It's all very "ho hum" in their world.  Hate the Jets, hate/respect the Dolphins. The Bills? I don't think about them.  It's cute how their fans get so into the game. They are not a rival.

 

I suppose a natural reaction after 2 decades.  But we owned the division in the '90's, and I always thought of the division foes as rivals, no matter how bad they were (and the Pats were pretty bad for a long time).  In other sports, some of my teams have had stretches of decades where they owned other teams in their division - but I always considered division teams to be rivals. You play them more, there are more tight games, and the games just mean more.  Those are the games you want to win.

 

A rivalry is a 2-way street.  I don't think we can consider them a rival if their fans don't consider us a rival.  They'd be more of a nemesis.

 

What say you?  I reject that they aren't a rival.  I see that as more of a younger Pats fan/entitled take.  To me, the Patriots will always be our rival - even if we beat them 30x in a row.

 

But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they're just a nemesis.

 

 

 

 

 

"you're a rival"

 

"no, YOU'RE a rival"

 

"I know you are but what am I?"

[Southern_Bills]

You have to win some games, take things away from them, before your rivals. 

 

New England has walked on us, their HC and Brady have broken NFL records against a single opponent against us.

 

I will say we are somewhat on the map this year but the fans really don't think we will beat them consistently. 

[Matt_In_NH]

1 hour ago, JMF2006 said:

 

When my fave team gets called a joke I get defensive

I get it but put your shoes on their feet 18 of 20 division tiles.  And you have zero in that timeframe.  10 sb appearances.  35-3 record or something.  It’s bad….

[Steve O]

I thought this thread was going to start with "Here me out.."

[Thurman#1]

11 hours ago, Success said:

When we play the Pats, I always check out their boards.  It can be an eye-opener. 

 

It's all very "ho hum" in their world.  Hate the Jets, hate/respect the Dolphins. The Bills? I don't think about them.  It's cute how their fans get so into the game. They are not a rival.

 

I suppose a natural reaction after 2 decades.  But we owned the division in the '90's, and I always thought of the division foes as rivals, no matter how bad they were (and the Pats were pretty bad for a long time).  In other sports, some of my teams have had stretches of decades where they owned other teams in their division - but I always considered division teams to be rivals. You play them more, there are more tight games, and the games just mean more.  Those are the games you want to win.

 

A rivalry is a 2-way street.  I don't think we can consider them a rival if their fans don't consider us a rival.  They'd be more of a nemesis.

 

What say you?  I reject that they aren't a rival.  I see that as more of a younger Pats fan/entitled take.  To me, the Patriots will always be our rival - even if we beat them 30x in a row.

 

But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they're just a nemesis.

 

 

 

We weren't a rival through the drought. The win-loss record against them shows that.

 

But any Pats fan with half a brain knows that now we are. After last year, they're in denial if they say we aren't.

 

But I don't agree with the last sentence of your fifth paragraph. If we beat them 30x in a row, they won't be a rival, they'll be a punching bag.

[Greg S]

32 minutes ago, PolishDave said:

Am I the only one who thinks of every other AFC East team as our rivals?

 

I effin hate the Dolphins and rejoice in their demise!

I effin hate the Jets and rejoice in their demise!

I effin hate the Patriots and anything connected to that organization and rejoice in all their demise!  

 

During the Brady years I hated the Patriots so much I would rather see the Patriots lose a game than see the Bills win a game.   It brought more joy to my life.   It is great to be back in a place where I now enjoy a Bills win more.   But I still do enjoy seeing the Patriots lose - every single time!   It makes me smile.

 

I live in NJ and I hate the Jets more than I do the Pats/Fins combined.

[Big Turk]

12 hours ago, TheBrownBear said:

No.  The Dolphins are our rival because of their dominance in the 70s/80s and our dominance in the late 80s/90s.  Bills/Pats doesn't reach that level since the teams were never really relevant at the same time (until this season).  Don't get me wrong, I still hate them.

 

Agree...rivalries are built when two teams really hate each other and the success has ben semi-equal, and/or both teams are relevant at the same time.  This is the first year that has really happened, and it will take time for that to develop.

[T master]

Back in the 70's the Fins were the Bills arch nemesis the Bills always lost to them & when OJ was with them they made up the saying ,

 

"Miami's got the oranges but we got the Juice"

 

At that time they were hated by Bills fans & i think that would constitute a rivalry seeing as they were in our division . 

[BillsFan692]

54 minutes ago, PolishDave said:

Am I the only one who thinks of every other AFC East team as our rivals?

 

I effin hate the Dolphins and rejoice in their demise!

I effin hate the Jets and rejoice in their demise!

I effin hate the Patriots and anything connected to that organization and rejoice in all their demise!  

 

During the Brady years I hated the Patriots so much I would rather see the Patriots lose a game than see the Bills win a game.   It brought more joy to my life.   It is great to be back in a place where I now enjoy a Bills win more.   But I still do enjoy seeing the Patriots lose - every single time!   It makes me smile.

NFL banks on those emotions. Patriots the team every fan either loves, or loves to hate.

 

Its why refs help them to 10 superbowls on 20 years and why they are the nfls "cash cow" story line.

 

It really is the WWE when you step back and analyze it.

[Nitro]

I do not give a rat's behind how another team's fans think.  All I know is who the Bills view a rival.   NE and Miami are a rivalry.  The NY Jets?  It has never gotten to that level after Namath left. 

[Greg S]

41 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said:

NFL banks on those emotions. Patriots the team every fan either loves, or loves to hate.

 

Its why refs help them to 10 superbowls on 20 years and why they are the nfls "cash cow" story line.

 

It really is the WWE when you step back and analyze it.

 

If the NFL were run like the WWE then why wouldn't the refs help the Giants? They are one of the NFL's darling franchises with long history in the NFL. They have one of the biggest fanbases and represent the NYC market. The Giants would certainly be a bigger cash cow for the NFL then the Pats.

Edited December 23, 2021 by Greg S

[Jerome007]

14 hours ago, Your Brown Eye said:

To Bills fans yes, to Pats fans no

Probably yes. Just like Dolphin fans must hate us now while we barely think of them except to see how bad Josh is going to whoop'em this time.

 

But those Cheat fans will change their tune Sunday!

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

I think for there to be a rivalry, it takes multiple close meaningful games over a short span with a multiplier for playoff games.  If we keep being locked into division races it will become one.  Maybe by the end of Sunday's game it will feel more like one. 

 

Right now I'd say that I associate our biggest rival as the Chiefs and the Pats' as the Ravens.

[Success]

14 hours ago, butch rolle said:

I think the OP is pretty much spot on with this notion of a rivalry needing to be reciprocal.  I live about 20 minutes from Gillette, firmly entrenched in Patriots country.  As a lifelong Bills fan, I can tell you it has been a tough stretch.  My estimation is that Bills fans talk about the Patriots 100x more than the fans here even think about our team.  They've completely written off last year's Cam-led losses as an aberration.  Foxsports put up that Bills Fans billboard across from Gillette and I stopped by to take some pictures today while doing some shopping next to the stadium.  I actually ran into an ex Patriot in the checkout line and while discussing that billboard he mentioned, "Wow, you guys are strangely obsessed with us".  It reminds me of living here in the early 2000's when the Red Sox were still on their 80 year championship drought and were constantly chanting "Yankees Suck!" even at games where the Yankees weren't involved.  Meanwhile, my friends from NY/NJ explained that no one in NY gave a damn about the Sox and that it was odd how persistent Red Sox Nation was.   Same goes for the old Bills/Dolphins rivalry.  We went the entire 70's without beating them once.  I was born in 79 and really didn't get into the Bills until the late 80's.  By that point we were consistently beating the Dolphins so I never understood the hatred of the Fins.  That's because I never had to experience the suffering of the previous decades.  Especially over the last 4-5 year where we have particularly owned Miami, it feels harder to get rev'd up for a "division rival"!  

 

All of that being said, if the Bills can pull it off this Sunday, take the division, and outlast the Patriots in the playoffs, it will go a long way towards reigniting the reciprocal hate from Pats country.

 

Interesting story about the ex-Patriot.  When I see those kinds of "we live in your head" sentiments from Patriots fans, I'm always like, of course!  20 years is an awfully long time.  And if they're also Red Sox fans, they should be able to relate.

 

They STILL chant "Yankees suck" at games.  Like you said - at games where the Yankees aren't even involved, and even at games for other sports like hockey.  

 

[Freddie's Dead]

For us, yes, for them, no.  It's hard to be considered a rival when you only win 1 out of 10 games against the other team.