TBN: Buffalo Bills fans donated $442,000 to Dalton Foundation. Nearly $100,000 went to management firm

[Shaw66]

I hate modern journalism.  Without studying all the details, I'm pretty sure this is a lot of baloney.  

 

Was the Dalton Foundation well managed?   I don't know.  

 

If this management company was formed to serve foundations formed by pro athletes, well, sure, I bet the management company charged a hefty fee.  There are lots of people trying to make a buck off of pro athletes.   So, yeah.  But let's recognize a few things.

 

First, Andy Dalton, or even Mrs. Dalton, are not going to manage the Andy Dalton Foundation.   They don't know the first thing about managing any organization.  They don't know how to form a corporation, how to run it, how to apply to the IRS to become tax exempt.  Andy's father doesn't know how to do it, his sister doesn't know.   No one is going to run foundations like this for free.   The Andy Dalton Foundation has to hire people to do it.   

 

Second, there's this believe that many people have that the people who work for charities should get work fo less.   Why anyone thinks that the bookkeeper for a foundation can afford to work for 20% less because it's a charity, I don't know.  If someone offered you the exact same job that you have today and offered to pay you 20% less, would you take it?   The foundation has to pay an executive directors, a bookkeeper/financial person, has to pay for web services and hosting, an accountant to prepare tax returns, has to pay for a lot of stuff.  The things they have to pay for cost just as much as the cost for-profit organizations.  

 

So, Andy Dalton's agent tells him he should have foundation, because it's good for public relations purposes or for some other reason.  Andy says yes, and the agent, of course refers Andy to a friend of the agent who's in the business of creating and running foundations for athletes.   That organization gets paid for doing all the things the staff of other foundations do.   It all costs money. 

 

Third, and this is a key point:  When you add up all the expenses of running a small foundation, the expenses are pretty much the same as the expenses of a medium sized foundation.    If a foundation raises $1 million a year, its expenses are pretty much the same as a foundation that raises $2 million a year.  Why?   Because the both foundations pay the director the same thing, pay the bookkeeper the same thing, pay the accountant the same thing.   The website costs the same thing.  Bank fees are minimal, so the bigger foundation doesn't pay that much more for banking services.   So, if it costs $250,000 a year to run a foundation collecting $1 million a year, and if it costs, say, $300,000 to run a foundation collecting $2 million a year, look at the percentages:   Fees are 25% for the smaller foundation, 15% for the larger foundation.   But that doesn't mean the crooks are running the smaller foundation - it just means that on a percentage basis, it's more expensive to run the smaller foundation.    

 

Plus, I don't know, but I doubt that management company gets a percentage of the money raised.  They charge a fee for services.   So, when Dalton's foundation gets an extra $400,000 in contributions, the management company doesn't take $100,000.   IF they do, that's wrong.  Assuming they don't, then the whole $400,000 Bills fans gave did in fact go to charity.  

 

Compare that to the campaign to give in honor of Josh Allen's grandmother.  That money went to an organization that spends millions on management - CEO, treasurer, etc., etc.  But it was going to spend that money last year whether or not Bills fans gave them a million dollars.  That was no additional cost to the hospital to collect that money.   So, yes, more or your money goes to charitable purposes the bigger the organization is that you give to.  

 

It's simple math. 

 

The money given to Dalton's foundation was not wasted. 

[BaaadThingsMan]

I opened this thread pissed but read @Shaw66 post and I'm not mad at all. Makes sense. 

[Evian]

This is terrible journalism just looking for clicks and views. Basically the fee is high because they manage EVERYTHING. Sure taking 25% is high but Dalton doesn't have some paid board, they don't have a bunch of friends getting paid to cater fundraisers, etc. 

 

Virtually every charity has costs that amount to a quarter on every dollar. I give to wounded warrior project and only 71 cents go to projects. It is not cheap running a charity.

[Motorin']

14 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I hate modern journalism.  Without studying all the details, I'm pretty sure this is a lot of baloney.  

 

Was the Dalton Foundation well managed?   I don't know.  

 

If this management company was formed to serve foundations formed by pro athletes, well, sure, I bet the management company charged a hefty fee.  There are lots of people trying to make a buck off of pro athletes.   So, yeah.  But let's recognize a few things.

 

First, Andy Dalton, or even Mrs. Dalton, are not going to manage the Andy Dalton Foundation.   They don't know the first thing about managing any organization.  They don't know how to form a corporation, how to run it, how to apply to the IRS to become tax exempt.  Andy's father doesn't know how to do it, his sister doesn't know.   No one is going to run foundations like this for free.   The Andy Dalton Foundation has to hire people to do it.   

 

Second, there's this believe that many people have that the people who work for charities should get work fo less.   Why anyone thinks that the bookkeeper for a foundation can afford to work for 20% less because it's a charity, I don't know.  If someone offered you the exact same job that you have today and offered to pay you 20% less, would you take it?   The foundation has to pay an executive directors, a bookkeeper/financial person, has to pay for web services and hosting, an accountant to prepare tax returns, has to pay for a lot of stuff.  The things they have to pay for cost just as much as the cost for-profit organizations.  

 

So, Andy Dalton's agent tells him he should have foundation, because it's good for public relations purposes or for some other reason.  Andy says yes, and the agent, of course refers Andy to a friend of the agent who's in the business of creating and running foundations for athletes.   That organization gets paid for doing all the things the staff of other foundations do.   It all costs money. 

 

Third, and this is a key point:  When you add up all the expenses of running a small foundation, the expenses are pretty much the same as the expenses of a medium sized foundation.    If a foundation raises $1 million a year, its expenses are pretty much the same as a foundation that raises $2 million a year.  Why?   Because the both foundations pay the director the same thing, pay the bookkeeper the same thing, pay the accountant the same thing.   The website costs the same thing.  Bank fees are minimal, so the bigger foundation doesn't pay that much more for banking services.   So, if it costs $250,000 a year to run a foundation collecting $1 million a year, and if it costs, say, $300,000 to run a foundation collecting $2 million a year, look at the percentages:   Fees are 25% for the smaller foundation, 15% for the larger foundation.   But that doesn't mean the crooks are running the smaller foundation - it just means that on a percentage basis, it's more expensive to run the smaller foundation.    

 

Plus, I don't know, but I doubt that management company gets a percentage of the money raised.  They charge a fee for services.   So, when Dalton's foundation gets an extra $400,000 in contributions, the management company doesn't take $100,000.   IF they do, that's wrong.  Assuming they don't, then the whole $400,000 Bills fans gave did in fact go to charity.  

 

Compare that to the campaign to give in honor of Josh Allen's grandmother.  That money went to an organization that spends millions on management - CEO, treasurer, etc., etc.  But it was going to spend that money last year whether or not Bills fans gave them a million dollars.  That was no additional cost to the hospital to collect that money.   So, yes, more or your money goes to charitable purposes the bigger the organization is that you give to.  

 

It's simple math. 

 

The money given to Dalton's foundation was not wasted. 

 

Pretty much...

 

And I wonder if the same people who are upset that a for profit company charges 22% to run the foundation are mad that all of the money actually  given went to families with medical expenses who were insured by for profit companies whose profit margins are built on denying their claims.

[ehfeuh57]

Thats really bad, thanks for whomever investigated.

 

What was their advertised rake

[Shaw66]

11 hours ago, teef said:

i just assumed it was a BBMB thing.  good question though...i don't remember if there was a controversy there or not.

Okay.  Now about the Ball Burglar.  I did a lot of work on the Ball Burglar.  

 

For those of you who don't know, the Ball Burglar was an organization formed and run by a few posters on the Buffalo Bills Message Board.  It wasn't affiliated with the Bills in any way.   We didn't get paid.

 

The Ball Burglar encouraged fans to give $1 for every takeaway the Bills got (takeaways for a touchdown, like a pick 6, counted double).  Some fans pledged $5 or $10 per takeaway. The money, after expenses, went primarily to Hunter's Hope (Jim Kelly's group) and the children's cancer fund at Roswell Park.   You gave us your credit card, pledged a buck or two per takeaway, and at the end of the season we charged the cards and distributed the net to the charities.  

 

If I recall, we did it for four years.  We raised about $40,000 and had expenses of about $10,000 (25%).   Expenses were just about all to pay the company that processed credit card transactions and kept all the card information secure.   Our lawyer formed the organization for free, handled the application to the IRS for charity status for free, prepared the tax returns for free.   

 

We'd get total pledges of maybe $300-$400 per takeaway per year.   If we could have gotten 1000 fans to do it, that would have been about $1000 per takeaway, or maybe $30,000.   Our expenses then would have been about $5,000 a year. or about 15%.   What I really wanted to do was get to $10,000 per takeaway.  That would have been around $300,000, and our expenses would have been less than 10%.   You can see how looking at percentages doesn't tell the whole story. 

 

It never caught on the way we hoped, and after a while we shut it down.   There was no scandal, no controversy at all (except some fans didn't like that we were using the message board to promote the effort.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JohnnyBuffalo]

I think as it stands now for every 5 days I work 1.5 of them go to pay for the administrative fees of the charitable organization we live in….
 

; )~

[teef]

10 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Okay.  Now about the Ball Burglar.  I did a lot of work on the Ball Burglar.  

 

For those of you who don't know, the Ball Burglar was an organization formed and run by a few posters on the Buffalo Bills Message Board.  It wasn't affiliated with the Bills in any way.   We didn't get paid.

 

The Ball Burglar encouraged fans to give $1 for every takeaway the Bills got (takeaways for a touchdown, like a pick 6, counted double).  Some fans pledged $5 or $10 per takeaway. The money, after expenses, went primarily to Hunter's Hope (Jim Kelly's group) and the children's cancer fund at Roswell Park.   You gave us your credit card, pledged a buck or two per takeaway, and at the end of the season we charged the cards and distributed the net to the charities.  

 

If I recall, we did it for four years.  We raised about $40,000 and had expenses of about $10,000 (25%).   Expenses were just about all to pay the company that processed credit card transactions and kept all the card information secure.   Our lawyer formed the organization for free, handled the application to the IRS for charity status for free, prepared the tax returns for free.   

 

We'd get total pledges of maybe $300-$400 per takeaway per year.   If we could have gotten 1000 fans to do it, that would have been about $1000 per takeaway, or maybe $30,000.   Our expenses then would have been about $5,000 a year. or about 15%.   What I really wanted to do was get to $10,000 per takeaway.  That would have been around $300,000, and our expenses would have been less than 10%.   You can see how looking at percentages doesn't tell the whole story. 

 

It never caught on the way we hoped, and after a while we shut it down.   There was no scandal, no controversy at all (except some fans didn't like that we were using the message board to promote the effort.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

thanks for the follow up.  i remember the logo specifically.  it was a fantastic idea, and it was always fun to read about.   i didn't think it was associated with any issues, but i remember posters, (it may have been on very loud poster) that had issues with it. 

[Frostbite]

On 12/19/2021 at 8:25 PM, Buffalo619 said:

Most are like this. Nonprofit doesn’t mean no profit, it means no tax.
 

It’s best to donate locally to a foundation that gives 90- 100% proceeds to the cause. 

Yup. There are plenty of nonprofits that actually make money. They're classified as "nonprofit" because their end goal isnt to make money, it's to provide resources for others with the money made. 

 

And then you have examples like the NFL, which up until a few years ago was a nonprofit and didn't get taxed. Don't get me wrong, they do a lot of good stuff, but their goal is definitely to make money for the owners.

Edited December 21, 2021 by Frostbite

[T master]

On 12/19/2021 at 7:24 PM, foreboding said:

Gee...I wonder why the world is so cynical these days?

 

Some follow as they are led and in today's world look at the examples we have had just in the past 20 yrs then if you think of what the youngsters are being taught in todays colleges & schools holy crap  . 

[T master]

None of this should be on Dalton but if i was him & my name was tied to it i'd be making some changes to how much they receive for what they do that's just a little much & then times that to how many players they represent i'd say somebody is making out like a bandit on a "Non profit" organization .

[foreboding]

2 hours ago, T master said:

 

Some follow as they are led and in today's world look at the examples we have had just in the past 20 yrs then if you think of what the youngsters are being taught in todays colleges & schools holy crap  . 

Sadly, I think it is more about growing up in era of unbridled greed. If you can get away with it, do it. It started in the early 80s and has run amok. I worked on the street for a while (software, not as a trader), the bigger the scam and the take, the more people admired each other. Horrible.

[Shaw66]

3 hours ago, teef said:

i remember the logo specifically.  

I live in Connecticut.  We needed a logo.  I found a guy around here who was a professional cartoonist.   He drew the comic strip "Nancy."  He ran classes for people to learn how to be cartoonists.   I called him and asked him if he'd ask his students to take a crack at creating a logo for us.  He said no, because whenever he did that, the students did half-baked drawings, and that was bad advertising for his school.  Then he asked me about the Ball Burglar and how it worked.   After a while, he told me a story.  

 

A guy that he used to work with on cartoons lived in Lancaster.   The guy got cancer and died.   Every year, they had a charity golf tournament in memory of the guy, and he'd go play in it.   He said he got to know a lot of people in Buffalo, and he realized what great people they were.  He talked about it for ten minutes.  Then he said, "give me a couple of weeks, I'll get you something."   

 

A couple of weeks later he sent me this fantastic logo.   It was really nice of him.  

 

The Facebook page is still up.  The logo is there.  https://www.facebook.com/BallBurglar/

 

We also had a great Burglar mask.  I still wear mine at Halloween.  

[Motorin']

1 hour ago, RunJoshRun said:

I think history is being re-written a bit here.  SHAW's law firm handled the Ball Burglar's donations.  He meant well and was honest.  The facts that came out after a few seasons of the Burglar's were that less than 50% of the donations from Bills fans went "to the Kids" as they advertised.  Hunter's Hope had a large administrative staff and combined with the Burglar's costs a dollar donation came to 47 cents actually going to kids!   You could write a check to Hunter's hope directly and at least be sure 75 cents went to a child.  The system at Children's Hospital was similar.

 

I like SHAW! 

 

People seem to confuse "not for profit" with "vow of poverty."

 

 

[RyanC883]

not sure that a nonprofit hiring a management consultant firm is really a scandal.