How to fix the reffing problem in the NFL

[nedboy7]

I wish the players wore more costumes like in WWF. 

[Blainorama5]

On 12/15/2021 at 9:29 AM, Sharky7337 said:

Let the press interview the refs after the game.

"Excuse me Mr. Referee ... were you aware you sucked today?  How do you plan to not suck next week?  No answer?  I see....  Thank you!"

[CodeMonkey]

On 12/14/2021 at 6:17 PM, reddogblitz said:

The idea of a 4 hour football game does sound good to me. I'm old enough to remember when they were 21/2 hours long.

 

It's over 3 hours now.  OT and it pushes 4.  I had to resort to technology to get it down to between 2 and 2.5 hours.  I use media center software that I wrote a plugin for to skip commercials.  So I record the Bills games, the system takes about 40 minutes to detect the commercials automatically after the recording ends, then when we watch it skips the commercials automatically.  Works out perfectly for 1pm starts.  Go do other things Sunday afternoons, come back home and watch the commercial free Bills game in 2 to 2.5 hours (manually skip halftime) while having a family dinner.  Not ideal for everyone, but it works for me

[Motorin']

On 12/14/2021 at 5:17 PM, reddogblitz said:

I would be in favor of just dumping replays altogether just live with the calls. Also make officials full time employees and make them practice too.  

 

There's already too much standing around in football as it is. Even with the amazing technology we have today they still can't get it right.  What makes you think if there were more they could?

 

The idea of a 4 hour football game does sound good to me. I'm old enough to remember when they were 21/2 hours long.

 

Why waste the time of having the ref come over and look at the play on a tablet? Ther should be an official eye in the sky at every game with immediate access to all angles correcting clear and obvious errors.  95% of challenges would go away, as would the tedious delay to review them on the sideline.

 

The review of completions / incompletions, fumbles, spots and TD's could be happening during the 40 second play clock. On clearly disputed play calls, the ref on field could momentarily pause for confirmation if need be. 

 

This wouldn't resolve penalty disputes, but would speed up and correct obvious errors that result in long delayed challenges or teams getting hose by bad calls. 

 

[reddogblitz]

3 hours ago, CodeMonkey said:

 

It's over 3 hours now.  OT and it pushes 4.  I had to resort to technology to get it down to between 2 and 2.5 hours.  I use media center software that I wrote a plugin for to skip commercials.  So I record the Bills games, the system takes about 40 minutes to detect the commercials automatically after the recording ends, then when we watch it skips the commercials automatically.  Works out perfectly for 1pm starts.  Go do other things Sunday afternoons, come back home and watch the commercial free Bills game in 2 to 2.5 hours (manually skip halftime) while having a family dinner.  Not ideal for everyone, but it works for me

 

I do something similar but not as high tech.  I TIVO the game and start watching it about an hour after it starts. Then I was forward through all the commercial and half time and other meaningless drivel.  

[Shaw66]

On 12/14/2021 at 10:34 AM, cle23 said:

 

The issue with doing the 15 yard penalty for DPI is that on almost every deep ball, especially at the end a half/game, is that the defender will just tackle the receiver and take the penalty.  If you get beat, just interfere.  

 

I haver no issue with the calls being observed from a central location to review quick, it just makes it tough especially if teams are running hurry up.

Good points.   The solution to that would be simply to make DPI a 15-yard penalty generally, and a spot foul in the final two minutes of each half.  

 

And I like the idea of having dedicated refs in the booth observing the pass plays.   Refs in the booth should have the ability to stop play for a few seconds to conduct the review.  That stoppage would stop the clock and not hurt teams in the hurry up.  College football has been doing quick reviews like that for years - it doesn't slow down the game and it fixes a lot of mistakes. 

 

Overall, it just amazes me that the NFL is so reluctant to make some changes that would make the game more fair to the teams and players, and that also would reduce the recurring questions fans raise about the credibility of the game itself.   Nickell-Robey commits that obvious interference against the Saints in the playoffs, and the league did only one thing about it: create a one-year experiment to let pass interference be a challengeable call.  Then they administered the rule to never overturn an interference call, preordaining that the experiment would fail.   Simple, quick video review would have fixed that problem, but the league won't do it.  

 

Under the circumstances, if some reporter breaks a story, uncovering the fact that that official was on the take, that he got $100,000 to look the other way, would anyone be surprised?   No.  Why?  Because there must be SOME reason why the league doesn't work harder to take bad officiating out of the game.  

[The Wiz]

2 hours ago, Motorin' said:

 

Why waste the time of having the ref come over and look at the play on a tablet? Ther should be an official eye in the sky at every game with immediate access to all angles correcting clear and obvious errors.  95% of challenges would go away, as would the tedious delay to review them on the sideline.

 

The review of completions / incompletions, fumbles, spots and TD's could be happening during the 40 second play clock. On clearly disputed play calls, the ref on field could momentarily pause for confirmation if need be. 

 

This wouldn't resolve penalty disputes, but would speed up and correct obvious errors that result in long delayed challenges or teams getting hose by bad calls. 

 

This would in turn add another party that could be biased though.  And at the same time, I'm sure the NFL doesn't want someone overruling the people they hire part time and make everyone think they should be hiring refs full time.

 

I remember all the ***** the replacement refs got when they were in a few years back and honestly, they at least called the game poorly both ways and would prefer that.

[reddogblitz]

28 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

College football has been doing quick reviews like that for years - it doesn't slow down the game and it fixes a lot of mistakes. 

 

College reviews too much and it takes too long. I can barely watch college football these days due to all the reviews.  Throw in reviews for targeting too.  It might fix some mistakes but it definitely slows the game down IMHO.

[Motorin']

30 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

This would in turn add another party that could be biased though.  And at the same time, I'm sure the NFL doesn't want someone overruling the people they hire part time and make everyone think they should be hiring refs full time.

 

I remember all the ***** the replacement refs got when they were in a few years back and honestly, they at least called the game poorly both ways and would prefer that.

 

That's why you make them the official replay referee in the booth, and give them say over objectively measured calls via video, but not the subjective calls.

[HamptonBillsfan]

The way to improve officiating is to discourage holding away from ball carrier and stop calling  personal fouls on marginal QB hits and sideline plays. Also, remove officiating teams from competition if they disproportionately are way above the average amount of penalties called over the course of the last 1/4 of the season. This will have an immediate impact.

[The Wiz]

22 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

That's why you make them the official replay referee in the booth, and give them say over objectively measured calls via video, but not the subjective calls.

And that's part of the problem. How many times did Riveron hurt the Bills in the past over objective calls?

 

Even it's an objective call it can become subjective to the individual reviewing it. 

Edited December 21, 2021 by The Wiz

[ToGoGo]

54 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Good points.   The solution to that would be simply to make DPI a 15-yard penalty generally, and a spot foul in the final two minutes of each half.  

 

And I like the idea of having dedicated refs in the booth observing the pass plays.   Refs in the booth should have the ability to stop play for a few seconds to conduct the review.  That stoppage would stop the clock and not hurt teams in the hurry up.  College football has been doing quick reviews like that for years - it doesn't slow down the game and it fixes a lot of mistakes. 

 

Overall, it just amazes me that the NFL is so reluctant to make some changes that would make the game more fair to the teams and players, and that also would reduce the recurring questions fans raise about the credibility of the game itself.   Nickell-Robey commits that obvious interference against the Saints in the playoffs, and the league did only one thing about it: create a one-year experiment to let pass interference be a challengeable call.  Then they administered the rule to never overturn an interference call, preordaining that the experiment would fail.   Simple, quick video review would have fixed that problem, but the league won't do it.  

 

Under the circumstances, if some reporter breaks a story, uncovering the fact that that official was on the take, that he got $100,000 to look the other way, would anyone be surprised?   No.  Why?  Because there must be SOME reason why the league doesn't work harder to take bad officiating out of the game.  

 

I see you as one of the most well-balanced posters on this board, and the fact that I've seen you question officiating like this the last few weeks is very telling for me. 

 

I have something called the "Soviet friend" experiment. If I were to bring in a friend that grew up in the Soviet Union and showed them something they have never seen before, what would they say about it, having lived a life where everything was corrupt and the worst of authority and human nature was always on display. 

 

If I showed them the Bills- Bucs game, my assumption is they would laugh, say it's rigged so that the big star would win on primetime, and turn it off. If I were to ask them how it was possible that so many people could work together to deceive and keep a secret like this, they would laugh even harder and say they "get an offer they couldn't refuse". 

 

It's a silly experiment, but it offers an alternative viewpoint. Sometimes we get such cultural tunnel-vision from the echo chamber, that we no longer see what is obvious. 

[Shaw66]

27 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

College reviews too much and it takes too long. I can barely watch college football these days due to all the reviews.  Throw in reviews for targeting too.  It might fix some mistakes but it definitely slows the game down IMHO.

I don't find the reviews interrupt the game much.  And they do them quickly.  My impressions. 

 

Whatever, it just seems that pretty much everyone agrees that the NFL could and should do some of this better.  They don't seem to be interested in fixing it.  I mean, I'm sure someone in the NFL offices looked at the calls and non-calls in the passing game in the Bucs-Bills game and could see a problem.  I don't know why they do something about it.  

 

The latest scourge on the came is offensive holding.   They allow the offensive lineman to put their arms on the outside shoulders of the rushing linemen, and there's obviously some holding going on there all day, every day.  Then, when the back changes direction and the defender changes direction, the offensive lineman is seen holding and it gets called.   Well, come on, if you're going to let them hold the defender when the guy is rushing straight in, you have to cut the offensive lineman some slack at the instand the change of direction happens.   Offensive holding calls are ruining the run game.  

 

 

 

[Motorin']

7 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

And that's part of the problem. How many times did Riveron hurt the Bills in the past over objective calls?

 

Even it's an objective call it can become subjective to the individual reviewing it. 

 

Having one guy in NY exert that kind of control is absurd. 

 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

Good points.   The solution to that would be simply to make DPI a 15-yard penalty generally, and a spot foul in the final two minutes of each half.  

 

And I like the idea of having dedicated refs in the booth observing the pass plays.   Refs in the booth should have the ability to stop play for a few seconds to conduct the review.  That stoppage would stop the clock and not hurt teams in the hurry up.  College football has been doing quick reviews like that for years - it doesn't slow down the game and it fixes a lot of mistakes. 

 

Overall, it just amazes me that the NFL is so reluctant to make some changes that would make the game more fair to the teams and players, and that also would reduce the recurring questions fans raise about the credibility of the game itself.   Nickell-Robey commits that obvious interference against the Saints in the playoffs, and the league did only one thing about it: create a one-year experiment to let pass interference be a challengeable call.  Then they administered the rule to never overturn an interference call, preordaining that the experiment would fail.   Simple, quick video review would have fixed that problem, but the league won't do it.  

 

Under the circumstances, if some reporter breaks a story, uncovering the fact that that official was on the take, that he got $100,000 to look the other way, would anyone be surprised?   No.  Why?  Because there must be SOME reason why the league doesn't work harder to take bad officiating out of the game.  

Idk….I think the solution is just to get the calls right.  Keep the penalties as they are…… but use technology and MONEY to get the calls right.  It’s really not that hard if they add officials to the sky and add more cameras that allow for better angles.  
 

maybe add a technology within the ball that allows for proper measurements.  Engineer, I am not, but my engi friends seem to think that it’s certainly possible 

[Shaw66]

2 minutes ago, ToGoGo said:

 

I see you as one of the most well-balanced posters on this board, and the fact that I've seen you question officiating like this the last few weeks is very telling for me. 

 

Thanks.  I love the Soviet friend.   

 

In my previous post I stated why I've been vocal about it again.   I just don't understand why the NFL is working to fix the obvious.   

 

Remember a few years ago when they got the "catch-no catch" question all screwed up.   They made rule changes and actually made it worse.   Somehow, they worked their way through that, and we don't have that problem anymore.  When the receiver gets hit just after the ball arrives and loses it, not catch.   When he catches it and makes a real play with ball, fumble.   It took a while, but they seem to have gotten it right.   The refs know how to call it, and the rulings don't seem unfair. 

 

One thing that's happened on pass interference is that they really tightened down on it a few years ago, and every contact downfield was interference.   It was easy to officiate that way, but it was ruining the game, because the defenders couldn't do anything to break up passes.   Now, they've eased up on that, and there's a lot of contact that the officials let go.   That's better, because it allows the defenders at least to make plays.   However, by loosening up how they call interference they've introduced the problem of big mistakes.   The interference against Diggs in the end zone was one.   In real time, I can see how the official may have thought it was incidental contact, but on the replay it was clear that the defender denied Diggs all opportunity to make a play on the ball, without the defender making any play himself.   Three or four years ago, that would have been an automatic interference call.  Now it's not.  The league needs a way to fix it.  

[Rubes]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

Good points.   The solution to that would be simply to make DPI a 15-yard penalty generally, and a spot foul in the final two minutes of each half.  

 

How about: in the final two minutes of each half, the offense gets to choose: spot foul, or 15 yard untimed penalty (ie, clock gets turned back to last play)?

 

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

Idk….I think the solution is just to get the calls right.  Keep the penalties as they are…… but use technology and MONEY to get the calls right.  It’s really not that hard if they add officials to the sky and add more cameras that allow for better angles.  
 

maybe add a technology within the ball that allows for proper measurements.  Engineer, I am not, but my engi friends seem to think that it’s certainly possible 

I don't disagree with that, but it seems the NFL has no interest.  

 

It's funny.  The NFL loves the passing game.   It's exciting and makes the game interesting to watch.  And yet they allow it to be officiated in a way that generates repeated instances of unfairness.   Big, important plays get called wrong, and the NFL says, "no problem."

[zow2]

Refs nowadays have too much influence over the game.  Their iffy calls or non-calls can decide who wins and who loses.

 

The best suggestions I've seen, are eliminate the DPI when a WR is coming back to the deep ball.  That can't be automatic like it has been.  It has to be an absolute mugging.  So many WR's just throw their hands up and the refs call it.

Also, the holds, etc.. that are on the complete other side of the field and away from the play.  Don't call a penalty like that if the hold has nothing to do with the outcome of the play.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

12 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't find the reviews interrupt the game much.  And they do them quickly.  My impressions. 

 

Whatever, it just seems that pretty much everyone agrees that the NFL could and should do some of this better.  They don't seem to be interested in fixing it.  I mean, I'm sure someone in the NFL offices looked at the calls and non-calls in the passing game in the Bucs-Bills game and could see a problem.  I don't know why they do something about it.  

 

The latest scourge on the came is offensive holding.   They allow the offensive lineman to put their arms on the outside shoulders of the rushing linemen, and there's obviously some holding going on there all day, every day.  Then, when the back changes direction and the defender changes direction, the offensive lineman is seen holding and it gets called.   Well, come on, if you're going to let them hold the defender when the guy is rushing straight in, you have to cut the offensive lineman some slack at the instand the change of direction happens.   Offensive holding calls are ruining the run game.  

 

 

 

 

I somewhat agree with you.  I say somewhat because a few years back I felt the college reviews were much faster.  But lately they've become almost as slow as the NFL.

 

I wonder whatever happened a few years back seem to recall the review would last "X" amount of seconds, after that the monitor would turn off, so that limited the length of reviews.

 

IMO the biggest thing that would help is full time referees.