What I saw, and why I am actually optimistic after this Bucs game

[Evian]

3 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

Yesterday's failed comeback was just fools gold.

 

 

Agreed. Brady got sloppy with a big lead and missed easy throws. When the game was on the line the Bills did nothing.

 

You win the OT coin toss you end the game. 3 plays. 6 yards. Punt. Pathetic.

 

 

[Ray Stonada]

8 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

 Breida is not the guy and dare I say it, with the offense going better, it may be time to bring Moss back.   Moss can handle the pass blocking assignments, and he can run effectively. 

 

As the OP points out, we finally played a great half of football, with guts and heart and skill. We should just stick to the plays and players who did that.

 

No need to interrupt that by bringing back Moss at this moment.  

 

8 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

 

When we stop moaning about the loss, we can start to see how the Bills are rounding into shape.  

 

 

 

 

100%. The team may have come together. My only worry is that overtime didn't look great again.

 

[Ray Stonada]

8 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

No, no john brown, not even close.

 

What does it tell you when Brown cant hook up with another team.

 

I loved John Brown here, but the dominant offense we developed last year was entirely while he was injured. When he came back, we were not as effective (other than the Miami blowout).

 

There's something to our offense with Diggs, Beasley and Davis as the wideouts, Knox at TE, and SIngletary at RB.

 

Davis' size works as a better contrast than having another smurf-style wideout like Brown/Sanders. 

 

Going forward, I would keep this basic package and sub in Sanders some of the time, vary it to a 2 RB or 2 TE set from time to time, and use McKenzie and Stevenson on 4 or 5 wide plays, and to give our starting WRs a breather. 

 

 

[newcam2012]

14 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Im still confident we will get into the playoffs and can make a SB push still THIS YEAR.  The teams paced with us are not nearly as balanced as we are.  There are a couple of things I am taking away from this stunning comeback and heartbreaking loss...and I think the team will be better for it.

 

• McD inserted himself into the defensive adjustments over Frazier.  Late in the 2nd half, McD was in his face and giving him instructions, it was seen on camera and even Romo knew exactly what was going on and they even made it a point to go back and show it again after the defense was able to flip the switch to end the 1st half.  Those changes carried over into the 2nd half where we really shut down the Bucs the whole half until a broken play in OT lost us the game. 
  • Moving forward, I think McD will take more control on the defense, especially after the successful adjustments he helped insert in this game.  And he has done this before, and successfully.  Even taken play calling away from Frazier before, again successfully.  Too much is on the line now, every game is of critical importance here on out.  
• The OL looked SUBSTANTIALLY better (not great still, but substantially better than the atrocious first half) during our second half once we got the run game going with Allen and our backs.   
  • I just cant see any chance Daboll doesn't get absolutely reamed by McD if he falls back into a pass only offense again at any point this season moving forward.  McD wants to run the ball, but Daboll has an allergy to it until the game is getting out of hand.  I think the second half offense we saw is going to be more what we see the whole game.
• Emmanuel Sanders:  I am just going to say it...this offense is better without Sanders and it showed after he left the game.  That is NOT meant to be a knock on Sanders, its NOT his fault nor is he a bad player by any means.  However, our offense flows better when we had Cole as an additional focal point of the offense.  (see next bullet point)
  • Gabriel Davis needs to also be on the field more because he brings what Sanders does to the table, but also has more size and physicality too.  
• Cole Beasley:  We NEED Cole more involved and it showed in the 2nd half big time.  What he brings in terms of short and quick strikes, opens up the rest of the field, but MOST IMPORTANTLY, gives Josh a quick place to get rid of the ball and move the chains consistently when the pass protection is not there.  When Diggs and Sanders are out there together, they have been able to neutralize it by taking away the big play and using the 2 high safeties.  
  • We need to build LAYERS back into our passing game, and a combination of Diggs, Cole, Knox, and Davis gives us a lot more of that than Diggs and Sanders combo.  
  • Cole really helps neutralize the blitz as well, much harder to bring the house when you need to defend the quick strike to a guy who will almost certainly burn any one on one defender for an easy first down.  

 

So I know we have had sooooo many of these "wake up" call games already against Pitt, Tenn, Jax, Colts, and now Bucs.  But, I don't really know that we had one like this yet...a true wake up game where what we were doing was NOT working...and we figured it out big time during the game and still narrowly lost.  The Bucs game is more reminiscent of the Cardinals game last year.  Where we found our confidence and groove on the field, not in practice or film study...but on the field where they rallied to do what seemed enough to win the game and a bad break left them just short (the BS non PI call at end of regulation).

 

I think the way our team adjusted and rebounded against one of the top SB contenders during the game is something they can finally build on.  Previous "wake up" losses, we did NOT find our groove really in those games.  Even the Titans game...our defense was struggling the whole second half so much we went for 2 instead of OT.  But against the Bucs, our D shut down the Bucs in the 2nd half and our offense moved the ball at will once we got the run game involved and guys like Cole, Davis and Knox all over the field.  

 

Call me a homer...but as heart breaking as the loss was, I am able to come out of that game with the optimism that this team can still make a run THIS year if they can build on and carry over the 2nd half Bills team that was on the field.  And while people are all over here hating on McD, I think he is a substantially big part of the reason for our comeback and was a big reason for all the adjustments that were made to get us back in that game.  He isn't perfect on gameday, and I think his waning confidence in Daboll and Frazier at times is impacting that...but I think he is still the right coach for this team and one of the best leaders in the league.  

Great post Alpha. What a great read and in depth analysis. My small input. Agree with getting Beasley more invovled. Sanders started out fast but he has contributed little since then. I prefer more of Davis. Lastly, this isn't coach McD best coaching year as a Bill. However, I believe he's the best man for the job. If someone can name an available coach better than McD I would like to hear that. I'm starting to believe the Bills might need to make a change at offensive and defensive coordinator. Not sure who that would be but it feels like their time is fading...

 

It's ok to be a "homer." Don't we all fall into that category? 

Edited December 14, 2021 by newcam2012

[Nextmanup]

9 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

Because Belichik is going to remember McDermott's comments from after the MNF game and rub it in his face for starters (i.e. run up the score and send a message).

 

And the Pats won't run the ball down our throat in this game, they'll do something completely different to exploit this teams weaknesses on both sides of the ball.

So the attitude of BB is enough to sway the outcome of the game?  
 

He'll rub it in his face?  What does that even mean in the context of a 60 minute football game?

 

This is a bunch of gibberish.

 

 

[Shaw66]

9 hours ago, Ray Stonada said:

 

As the OP points out, we finally played a great half of football, with guts and heart and skill. We should just stick to the plays and players who did that.

 

No need to interrupt that by bringing back Moss at this moment.  

 

 

 

Well, you can't ask your running back to play 100% of the offensive snaps, unless his name is Henry.  Last I checked, Derrick Henry wasn't on the roster.   So, the Bills need someone to take some of the snaps at running back.   I've seen enough of Breida to know that he's not the guy.  No one else on the roster, apparently, has shown enough to get even a whiff of offensive action, so that leaves me to think that Moss has to be the guy.  

[Ray Stonada]

5 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Well, you can't ask your running back to play 100% of the offensive snaps, unless his name is Henry.  Last I checked, Derrick Henry wasn't on the roster.   So, the Bills need someone to take some of the snaps at running back.   I've seen enough of Breida to know that he's not the guy.  No one else on the roster, apparently, has shown enough to get even a whiff of offensive action, so that leaves me to think that Moss has to be the guy.  

 

I agree with you; we can't only have one back. I just don't think it should be Moss. Brieda actually made another nice cut back and got a good gain against the Bucs. I'm not sure he's not the better backup. At this point, I'd rather see Antonio Williams get some carries than Moss.

 

But maybe I'm biased against Moss. When he tweeted "They did me dirty" when he was scratched for the Pittsburgh game, I felt like he wasn't a team player. Then I had the same feeling when he was partying the night before the game in New Orleans.

 

 

[Hebert19]

23 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Earlier in the season, Sanders was better for this offense than John Brown.  Now I'm not so sure.  I was actually thinking after the game that the Bills should take a flyer on Brown for the playoff run.  I know it'll never happen, but a guy can dream.....

I've said this multiple times.  Sign him to PS.  Would not be shocked if this happens this week anyway

[Nitro]

I am optimistic too.   With Davis in for Sanders the offense moves.  Defeat the Panthers then on to NE.  Hope for good weather.  Want to see the Bills beat NE on their field.  

[HamSandwhich]

On 12/13/2021 at 11:24 AM, Alphadawg7 said:

Im still confident we will get into the playoffs and can make a SB push still THIS YEAR.  The teams paced with us are not nearly as balanced as we are.  There are a couple of things I am taking away from this stunning comeback and heartbreaking loss...and I think the team will be better for it.

 

• McD inserted himself into the defensive adjustments over Frazier.  Late in the 2nd half, McD was in his face and giving him instructions, it was seen on camera and even Romo knew exactly what was going on and they even made it a point to go back and show it again after the defense was able to flip the switch to end the 1st half.  Those changes carried over into the 2nd half where we really shut down the Bucs the whole half until a broken play in OT lost us the game. 
  • Moving forward, I think McD will take more control on the defense, especially after the successful adjustments he helped insert in this game.  And he has done this before, and successfully.  Even taken play calling away from Frazier before, again successfully.  Too much is on the line now, every game is of critical importance here on out.  
• The OL looked SUBSTANTIALLY better (not great still, but substantially better than the atrocious first half) during our second half once we got the run game going with Allen and our backs.   
  • I just cant see any chance Daboll doesn't get absolutely reamed by McD if he falls back into a pass only offense again at any point this season moving forward.  McD wants to run the ball, but Daboll has an allergy to it until the game is getting out of hand.  I think the second half offense we saw is going to be more what we see the whole game.
• Emmanuel Sanders:  I am just going to say it...this offense is better without Sanders and it showed after he left the game.  That is NOT meant to be a knock on Sanders, its NOT his fault nor is he a bad player by any means.  However, our offense flows better when we had Cole as an additional focal point of the offense.  (see next bullet point)
  • Gabriel Davis needs to also be on the field more because he brings what Sanders does to the table, but also has more size and physicality too.  
• Cole Beasley:  We NEED Cole more involved and it showed in the 2nd half big time.  What he brings in terms of short and quick strikes, opens up the rest of the field, but MOST IMPORTANTLY, gives Josh a quick place to get rid of the ball and move the chains consistently when the pass protection is not there.  When Diggs and Sanders are out there together, they have been able to neutralize it by taking away the big play and using the 2 high safeties.  
  • We need to build LAYERS back into our passing game, and a combination of Diggs, Cole, Knox, and Davis gives us a lot more of that than Diggs and Sanders combo.  
  • Cole really helps neutralize the blitz as well, much harder to bring the house when you need to defend the quick strike to a guy who will almost certainly burn any one on one defender for an easy first down.  

 

So I know we have had sooooo many of these "wake up" call games already against Pitt, Tenn, Jax, Colts, and now Bucs.  But, I don't really know that we had one like this yet...a true wake up game where what we were doing was NOT working...and we figured it out big time during the game and still narrowly lost.  The Bucs game is more reminiscent of the Cardinals game last year.  Where we found our confidence and groove on the field, not in practice or film study...but on the field where they rallied to do what seemed enough to win the game and a bad break left them just short (the BS non PI call at end of regulation).

 

I think the way our team adjusted and rebounded against one of the top SB contenders during the game is something they can finally build on.  Previous "wake up" losses, we did NOT find our groove really in those games.  Even the Titans game...our defense was struggling the whole second half so much we went for 2 instead of OT.  But against the Bucs, our D shut down the Bucs in the 2nd half and our offense moved the ball at will once we got the run game involved and guys like Cole, Davis and Knox all over the field.  

 

Call me a homer...but as heart breaking as the loss was, I am able to come out of that game with the optimism that this team can still make a run THIS year if they can build on and carry over the 2nd half Bills team that was on the field.  And while people are all over here hating on McD, I think he is a substantially big part of the reason for our comeback and was a big reason for all the adjustments that were made to get us back in that game.  He isn't perfect on gameday, and I think his waning confidence in Daboll and Frazier at times is impacting that...but I think he is still the right coach for this team and one of the best leaders in the league.  

I don’t think Daboll is allergic to running, I think he was using the pass to set up the run. 

[reddogblitz]

17 hours ago, Evian said:

Brady got sloppy with a big lead and missed easy throws.

 

Brady didn't miss easy throws cuz he "got sloppy". He missed those throws because our blitzers were breathing down his neck so he got rid of it too fast like he always does under pressure.

 

Here here for Coach McDermott dialing up the blitz in the 2 nd half. A similar strategy may very well work against Jones next week too.

[cgg716]

Most of that is fair enough, not the run game though 

[corta765]

On 12/13/2021 at 11:31 AM, OrangeBills said:

It's really Beasley.   For whatever reason he was not part of the Offense this season until the 2H of the Bucs game, and it showed

 

I have wondered if Sanders presence has made Josh maybe force more passes his way rather then taking the easy throws which Beasley is available for a lot. Brown was a straight speed guy very north south routes, where Sanders can do more but Josh maybe looks too much his way because of it also.

[John from Riverside]

So the question becomes.......we have a speed receiver we are not playing should he be getting some go routes in this offense

 

This is not to take Gabe Davis off the field who should be playing a lot more.......just to stretch the defense out a little bit with speed

[FilthyBeast]

14 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

So the attitude of BB is enough to sway the outcome of the game?  
 

He'll rub it in his face?  What does that even mean in the context of a 60 minute football game?

 

This is a bunch of gibberish.

 

 

 

It means that Belichik will go out of his way to coach circles around McDermott and win the game decisively.

 

It's what he's done for 20+ years especially when there has been perceived bulletin board type material by opposing coaches and players or you haven't been playing close enough attention.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

20 hours ago, Evian said:

I am not optimistic because the team is not constructed to win a championship and with the Bills that is all that matters.

 

Unless the coach and quarterback develop a killer instinct this team will never win anything. Sometimes a season like this is what brings about the killer instinct. I think when they look back on this season they will realize finesse football doesn't win championships.

 

I rather win a Super Bowl in Arizona in 2023 anyway. I hate LA.

 

 

Can someone explain this idea of finesse football to me lol this one still baffles me…is that a synonym for we haven’t been playing well in the trenches? Cuz there’s not a lot of finesse about a team who’s qb is barreling head first into you 10 times a game and letting them try to man up our receivers lol  Statistically we aren’t even bad at running the football it seems like as a point of pride people are requiring it to come from rbs exclusively or it doesn’t count though.  If this offensive line stops blowing a handful of blocking assignments per game we are going to light teams up.  I see these close losses as more bad luck that will even out than anything.  I can definitely see us turning it around 

33 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

It means that Belichik will go out of his way to coach circles around McDermott and win the game decisively.

 

It's what he's done for 20+ years especially when there has been perceived bulletin board type material by opposing coaches and players or you haven't been playing close enough attention.

Maybe this is a hot take from me that I’m going to get flamed for idk…but belichicks gameplan in that first matchup against us was absolute dogsh*t in my opinion and we bailed him out by shooting ourselves in the foot on offense in all the key moments.  Belichick was all in on the ‘they won’t be able to move the ball on my defense into the wind’ train and was intent on just running and punting on offense…then we get in the red zone twice in the 4th quarter and I’m sure he was sweating bullets.  It will benefit him big time in the rematch though for sure.  They crossed midfield three times for Christ’s sake people are talking like they beat us by 40.  They don’t get extra style points for running the ball every play. 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Alphadawg7]

21 hours ago, Evian said:

 

Agreed. Brady got sloppy with a big lead and missed easy throws. When the game was on the line the Bills did nothing.

 

You win the OT coin toss you end the game. 3 plays. 6 yards. Punt. Pathetic.

 

 

 

So the DL pressuring Brady had nothing do it?  Got it. 

[Jrb1979]

24 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

So the DL pressuring Brady had nothing do it?  Got it. 

It did but my question what took them til half time to figure it out? While they looked good in the 2nd half, I'm not so sure they woke up at all. I think they finish 3-1 due to an easy schedule left. I don't think they win the division as I see the Patriots winning Saturday. Belichek with 2 weeks to prepare for Indy will win. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

22 hours ago, Evian said:

 

Agreed. Brady got sloppy with a big lead and missed easy throws. When the game was on the line the Bills did nothing.

 

You win the OT coin toss you end the game. 3 plays. 6 yards. Punt. Pathetic.

 

 

Brady does not just get sloppy with any size lead lol this is an absurd take.  He is the poster child for absolutely obliterating teams and keeping his foot on the gas.  Our dlinemen started winning because we run a rotation and their offensive linemen weren’t as fresh and we started making Brady uncomfortable.

34 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

It did but my question what took them til half time to figure it out? While they looked good in the 2nd half, I'm not so sure they woke up at all. I think they finish 3-1 due to an easy schedule left. I don't think they win the division as I see the Patriots winning Saturday. Belichek with 2 weeks to prepare for Indy will win. 

The buccaneers just stopped trying at halftime is the most laughable take of the season so far in my opinion lol Did they continue ‘to not try’ all the way up until the game was tied? Which touchdown drives of ours count because the buccaneers defense who likely have incentives in their contract for statistical performances and who’s entire livelihood is based on having good game film actually start trying again? 😂 ridiculous. Brady who is playing football well into 40/s to smash every record imaginable one td away from the career passing td record was just like na I’m good huh haha

Edited December 14, 2021 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Jrb1979]

5 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Brady does not just get sloppy with any size lead lol this is an absurd take.  He is the poster child for absolutely obliterating teams and keeping his foot on the gas.  Our dlinemen started winning because we run a rotation and their offensive linemen weren’t as fresh and we started making Brady uncomfortable.

The buccaneers just stopped trying at halftime is the most laughable take of the season so far in my opinion lol Did they continue ‘to not try’ all the way up until the game was tied? Which touchdown drives of ours count because the buccaneers defense who likely have incentives in their contract for statistical performances and who’s entire livelihood is based on having good game film actually start trying again? 😂 ridiculous

I wasn't even talking about the bucs at all. I never said they stopped trying  My question is why did it take the Bills til halftime to figure out what they were doing wasn't working?