NFL Executive Comments on the Flaw of Bills Roster Construction & Game Play

[SirAndrew]

3 hours ago, Steptide said:

Oh ya, throwing that much is not sustainable, yet the bucs, who won the superbowl, throw it just as much or more. Please 

I agree, but I think it’s the o line that makes all the difference. It’s fair to point out our o line failure, but I think it’s a lie to say we throw too much to win. Tampa’s line is the difference. I think Fournette is slow and washed up already, and not much better than our backs, but the Bucs can actually block. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by SirAndrew

[dpberr]

All fine and dandy but with four games left, they better come up with some run plays that work using the guys they have. This team rides and dies on essentially the run and shoot offense without any of the run.  It's bold!

 

That's squarely on the shoulders of Daboll.  IMO, the lack of a cogent running plan that works by the end of the season is a fire-able offense.  

 

 

 

 

[theRalph]

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Now they'll probably over correct and pick 7 Olineman?  

Well, six maybe, because Star is dimming.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, dneveu said:

Breida missed a blitz pickup BAD yesterday.  I doubt he played much after that, and its kind of why he's never been a starter.  

 

It's not his first miss, either. 

 

Basically, he doesn't seem able to block or to understand how protections vary with defensive formations.  In theory, we could work around him with 2 TE (or extra OL) or 2 RB formations.  We need his speed.  But I say that knowing I know just enough to be ignorant about how profoundly that would bolix our protection calls.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

They drafted two OL, so this notion we ignored the OL this offseason is just not accurate.  

 

Its not like we have endless cap space to pay the best OL in FA or have 6 picks in the first 2 rounds to get premium draft picks at every position of need.  One of those 2 OL we drafted has been one of our best OL this year in Brown.  

 

Sorry, but nothing is more inaccurate than this false blanket statement we "ignored" it when we did not.  Our pass rush was a major achilles heal ALSO.  We had several things we needed to address, cant fix it all in one draft or offseason.  

 

I mean this was essentially the third year of an entire rebuild where it was completely torn down and built back up.  Almost every starter is new, and every backup.  We went from the bottom of the AFC to the AFCCG in essentially Beanes 2nd year of rebuilding (first year he just tore the old stuff down before building back up).  

 

Now this offseason, there is zero doubt OL will almost certainly be the main priority this off season.  I expect they will look to address DT given Star has not been able to stay on the field consistently and he and his size are too important to our run defense and possibly a RB.  But our run game issues are NOT our RB's as much as it is our OL and most importantly, run blocking scheme.  

 

Other changes I believe will happen...Bobby Johnson fired and if Daboll doesn't take another job, I think he could be fired too.  Because quite honestly, I dont think talent wise our OL is as bad as its been playing.  I think it has a LOT to do with Daboll and his system/scheme.  Look at the 2nd half yesterday...soon as we start running the ball, the OL doesn't look nearly as bad as it did in the first half.  This has been true several times this year.  So my personal opinion, DABOLL is our biggest achilles heal overall right now.  

 

This reminds me when everyone was crying we didn't address WR while completely lacking the context of state of the team, cap, and all the other positions we had to address first.  Then, once that was set, we went and over hauled the WR room too.  Next up...the OL situation...be it player or coach over haul or both.

 

While I agree with you that it's factually incorrect that we "ignored the OL this offseason", and also that our biggest identified need was "affecting the QB" on defense....can you agree that it was pretty clear we struggled to run the ball and a lot of that was on IOL last season?  Likewise pass protection struggles at times?

That being the case, can we agree that

-drafting two OT in the 3rd and 5th round

-bringing back the same IOL plus two low level FA G (Lamp and Douglas)

......is not a lot of weight on "address" at the point on IOL which was our biggest need?

 

I have no quarrel with Rousseau as a pick, but did we really have to double down on DE in the 2nd round when a very good IOL was there?

 

The whole thing reminds me of Allen's rookie season when we really had no OL, and Beane said before and during the season he was limited in what he could do by the cap.  Then after the season, he acknowledged in a press conference that even so, he "could have done more" and that failing to do so was a "mistake".

[Nextmanup]

The Bills can win the Super Bowl this year throwing the ball like crazy, or some other team will win the Super Bowl throwing the ball like crazy.  Take your pick.  

It's not like we have no run game.  We do have one.

 

Look up the numbers.

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

21 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

While I agree with you that it's factually incorrect that we "ignored the OL this offseason", and also that our biggest identified need was "affecting the QB" on defense....can you agree that it was pretty clear we struggled to run the ball and a lot of that was on IOL last season?  Likewise pass protection struggles at times?

That being the case, can we agree that

-drafting two OT in the 3rd and 5th round

-bringing back the same IOL plus two low level FA G (Lamp and Douglas)

......is not a lot of weight on "address" at the point on IOL which was our biggest need?

 

I have no quarrel with Rousseau as a pick, but did we really have to double down on DE in the 2nd round when a very good IOL was there?

 

The whole thing reminds me of Allen's rookie season when we really had no OL, and Beane said before and during the season he was limited in what he could do by the cap.  Then after the season, he acknowledged in a press conference that even so, he "could have done more" and that failing to do so was a "mistake".

 

I want to point something out though...I mean think about what you are talking about right now.  People are criticizing a GM who in one draft found a starting DE and a starting RT, 2 players who have been some of our better players on their respective units as rookies in the first 3 rounds of the draft.  Let that sink in...take in how late we were picking too.  Both guys appear to have tremendous upside.  

 

But all anyone can focus on is what he did or didnt do in the 2nd round?  Do you guys realize how hard it is for a team coming off an AFCCG, picking late, with a strong roster already to find 2 quality rookie starters in its first 3 picks at important positions?  

 

Yet the complaint is that somehow Beane didn't bat a thousand on those first 3 picks now?  And we don't even know if Basham was a bad pick, he wont get time in the rotation until after some of the older DE's are gone, likely next year.  He has shown promise at times too, so its way too early to criticize the pick IMO given his chances to show what he can do are in front of him still.

 

I think we can agree that hindsight is 20/20 on nit picking the draft.  But we don't know how we had our draft board graded when Basham was on the clock, but what we do know is that he was their top targe based on the videos from the draft room confirming that. They clearly had him atop their board, and Beane has always stay true to his board...and that method allowed Beane to clear out a bad roster and bad cap situation in no time and take a bottom feeder team for 20 years to the AFCCG in basically 2 years of building the team back up.  

 

I also heard this complaint before...about our WR's.  And I kept saying, it would be addressed, couldn't do it all in one offseason.  And then the next offseason we fixed it in one swoop.  And this next offseason, I am sure the OL (both coaching and personnel) will be a top priority this offseason, like WR was the year before, and DE was last year.  

 

PS:  Also fans grossly undervalue mid range picks despite the fact the vast majority of NFL starters come from the mid rounds or later, even undrafted guys, all across the league.  So to disregard we drafted 2 OL in 3rd and 5th is something that doesn't make a lot of sense, especially when one of them is already one of our best OL.  

 

 

 

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

I'm not anti-balance. But I'm sure people said the same thing in 1982 when San Francisco was throwing 3 yard put patterns to the full back instead of running the ball. There are numerous ways to win in the NFL. Had one break gone the Bills way on the final drive no one would be talking about how much Allen passed the ball 

[PromoTheRobot]

What NFL exec? A good one or a bad one? I mean if it were the Lions GM, would you care?

[BillsVet]

4 hours ago, JohnNord said:

That’s a bit dramatic and extreme though there is some truth to what you said.  Some of the decisions yesterday were not good

 

Not just yesterday, but in games against better competition a trend has developed where he turtles.  82 games as a HC and more than 200 as an assistant it's hard to believe he'll ever improve in-game. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

31 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

While I agree with you that it's factually incorrect that we "ignored the OL this offseason", and also that our biggest identified need was "affecting the QB" on defense....can you agree that it was pretty clear we struggled to run the ball and a lot of that was on IOL last season?  Likewise pass protection struggles at times?

That being the case, can we agree that

-drafting two OT in the 3rd and 5th round

-bringing back the same IOL plus two low level FA G (Lamp and Douglas)

......is not a lot of weight on "address" at the point on IOL which was our biggest need?

 

I have no quarrel with Rousseau as a pick, but did we really have to double down on DE in the 2nd round when a very good IOL was there?

 

The whole thing reminds me of Allen's rookie season when we really had no OL, and Beane said before and during the season he was limited in what he could do by the cap.  Then after the season, he acknowledged in a press conference that even so, he "could have done more" and that failing to do so was a "mistake".

I think we need to hit on some oline draft picks next year - it's so expensive to even get mediocre talent in free agency.  That or you have to use draft picks to pick up bad contracts.  

 

Buffalo can get out of any and all of their offensive line deals this offseason - so it'll be interesting to see who the keeps vs. replacements are and how they approach the draft.  I assume Dawkins spot is safe (limited cap savings), as is Brown.  Feliciano i could see bringing back as he's a capable center/guard.  Morse and Ford are almost definitely gone.  Williams likely joins them.   

 

That'd save 14ish in cap, with another 8 in dead money.  It's not enough to replace all of them with high level players, but its enough to get another interior lineman at center or guard.  Other major cut candidates would be Klein, Matakevich, and possibly bease.  I only doubt Bease as the savings would be about 6mil - which is what buffalo paid for sanders on the open market - so do you cut him to avoid the roster bonus - just to use the cap savings to sign another player who might not fit the offense?  I'd rather keep bease and sign a cheaper sanders replacement and hope davis just runs with the job (hodgins becoming a useful player would be huge).  

 

As for holes - they lose 2 pass rushers in hughes/addison.  Butler whos worthless.  Sanders where davis likely steps in (i'd also consider this a low-key priority in the draft unless they like hodgins).  Wallace at CB2 (not a huge loss imo, hes fine and he's been cheap).  And zimmer/phillips - could probably bring back either or both for a reasonable amount of money.  Running back - with limited cap space?  I just don't know how smart it is to invest here - I'd probably look at a later round back.  

 

The way i look at it - 1st round almost has to be offensive line - or trade down if someone slips to Buffalo's pick.  After that it depends what they address in free agency - but they need depth and youth at DT.  They need someone to push at CB2 with it basically being jackson and lewis next year across from Tre (assuming he's ready on day 1).  I'd also look at a mike LB in the 2-3 range.  And they also need to continue building the offensive line beyond round 1.  TE2 should be looked at.  

 

To me - buffalo is going to be bargain barrel hunting with the cap space they create.  I'm ready to move on from hughes/addison - but if hughes wanted to come back for a 2-3 mil swan song?  I'd probably do it.  They need some beef up the middle however they can do it.  A lot of what they need to do to fix the offense starts up front, and as for the defense they are getting younger.  

[SectionC3]

5 hours ago, Steptide said:

Oh ya, throwing that much is not sustainable, yet the bucs, who won the superbowl, throw it just as much or more. Please 

Agreed.  The weather this season has really sucked, which has made it harder for us to get in rhythm and harder for us to establish the short passing game as an extension of our run game.  We did it much better in the second half.  We used swings to Singletary to get him out in space in the flat (which he doesn’t have the speed to do on handoffs).  Beasley reappeared in a similar way last night.  That’s the ticket for us moving forward.  Having Davis on the field in Sanders’s place should help with that.  Keep on chucking the rock. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, dneveu said:

I think we need to hit on some oline draft picks next year - it's so expensive to even get mediocre talent in free agency. 

 

Indeed.  But isn't this a bit contradictory with what you say below:

 

3 hours ago, dneveu said:

Buffalo can get out of any and all of their offensive line deals this offseason - so it'll be interesting to see who the keeps vs. replacements are and how they approach the draft.  I assume Dawkins spot is safe (limited cap savings), as is Brown.  Feliciano i could see bringing back as he's a capable center/guard.  Morse and Ford are almost definitely gone.  Williams likely joins them.   

 

That'd save 14ish in cap, with another 8 in dead money.  It's not enough to replace all of them with high level players, but its enough to get another interior lineman at center or guard.

 

Why would we want to replace players on our OL who are "JAGs", at the cost of assuming $8M in dead money, in order to replace them with JAGs?

 

 

[Scott7975]

Nothing we didnt already know and almost everyone has said all season long.

[CSBill]

An angry day on the TBD board. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It's not his first miss, either. 

 

Basically, he doesn't seem able to block or to understand how protections vary with defensive formations.  In theory, we could work around him with 2 TE (or extra OL) or 2 RB formations.  We need his speed.  But I say that knowing I know just enough to be ignorant about how profoundly that would bolix our protection calls.

Haha I’m in the same boat as you and I’m too sad to rewatch any games usually 😂 but strictly from the eye test it seems like moss is our only rb that can block

3 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

Agreed.  The weather this season has really sucked, which has made it harder for us to get in rhythm and harder for us to establish the short passing game as an extension of our run game.  We did it much better in the second half.  We used swings to Singletary to get him out in space in the flat (which he doesn’t have the speed to do on handoffs).  Beasley reappeared in a similar way last night.  That’s the ticket for us moving forward.  Having Davis on the field in Sanders’s place should help with that.  Keep on chucking the rock. 

It’s interesting to me that Knox has emerged as a big target pass catching threat (NE game aside) and we have gotten even worse in the red zone lol 

[Mr. WEO]

Morse was an expensive mistake from the get go (why does KC let him go?--won the SB without him).

 

Dawkins is their highest graded O-lineman (he's not highly rated).

 

Ford stinks, right off the bus.

 

Feliciano is a Walmart greeter.  He showed his soft creamy filling in last year's AFCC game (including the embarrassing "HOLD ME BACK!!" pantomime at the end of the game).

 

None of this is new this year...

Edited December 13, 2021 by Mr. WEO

[DCofNC]

8 hours ago, TheBrownBear said:

Yesterday's game was an outlier as we rarely ask Josh to pass that often.  You'd think that based on that article and this thread, we'd lead the NFL in passing attempts.  We are 6th in passing attempts (18th in rushing attempts).  And our offense is still ranked in the top-10 overall (8th in yards, 4th in scoring).  The two big issues we have is our inability to stop power rushing teams on D and an inability to score in the redzone.  We are going through a rough patch these past two weeks and it seems as if the sky is falling, but we lost one score games to two of the top-4 or 5 teams in the entire league, almost entirely because of the two issues noted above.  If we can make some tweaks and show some modest improvement in those areas over the soft schedule these next four weeks, we can enter the playoffs as a threat to make some noise.

 

But yes, the O and D lines are serious issues from a personnel standpoint and we need to address them in the offseason.

Those numbers don’t tell the whole truth, what is the PERCENTAGE of throws vs runs and how does that compare? 1 pass can cover 50 yards where other teams may pass 7 times to cover that. 

[Luka]

8 hours ago, Niagara Dude said:

RB position was not addressed in the offseason because Beanne was too busy enjoying his award and did not want to admit he blew it drafting both Moss & Singetary in the the 3d round.  Singletary is maybe a 4th or 5th rounder at best and Moss is more like a 7th rounder or undrafted free agent.  Beane has missed bad on many picks and free agent signing/  Morse/Star/Addison/Butler/Klein,  all paid good to very good money and have produced very little.  Like has Butler even made a play this season and Star seems to always let his teammate down

 

Only reason why this team is still a playoff contender is because Josh Allen,  so fans need to stop just blaming Sean because Beanne is just as much to blame if not more.  I challenge anyone to review his free agent signings and show anyone other then Beasley and maybe Sanders who has paid off and considered good value.  Draft pick Espensa looks like a undersized slow DE and other picks like Ford/Moss look like complete busts.  Just blindly resigned his offensive line from last season and they get blow up week after week and Josh is usuallly ruuning for his life.  Changes are needed and we may need cut guys even if it means having dead money so we can sign quality and not just quanity of free agents.  

Star and Klein are two of our better players on defense. Our defense is completely different without Star. And Klein has stepped in and played about as well as you can hope for a backup in a 2 linebacker system.

 

What I will agree with you on is the drafting. We've drafted more defensive ends than we've got sacks it seems. Boogie to me was the worst one though. Complete waste of a pick and two great offensive lineman went right after him to the Packers and Cheifs. Two teams who understand you have to protect your MVP QB.

[JohnNord]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Morse was an expensive mistake from the get go (why does KC let him go?--won the SB without him).

 

Dawkins is their highest graded O-lineman (he's not highly rated).

 

Ford stinks, right off the bus.

 

Feliciano is a Walmart greeter.  He showed his soft creamy filling in last year's AFCC game (including the embarrassing "HOLD ME BACK!!" pantomime at the end of the game).

 

None of this is new this year...

I don’t share the shame view on Morse.  He was perhaps the top center in free agency when the Bills signed him.  Did they overpay for him?  Probably, but that’s what happens in FA.  Beane wanted to make sure Josh could learn with a solid veteran center and that what Morse has been.

 

Dawkins struggled early this season and has played much better over the past 2 weeks.  
 

Ford and Feliciano were pretty big busts