A Few Thoughts about the Bucs Game, in no particular order

[HappyDays]

6 hours ago, corta765 said:

2 - Daboll - Call me a conspiracist but I am starting to think Daboll is not the problem and want to pass more and McD is the issue. I say this because McD's conservative nature really has shown true this season and Daboll has seemingly indicated he want to never run again. He is not without his faults, I think this has been Dabolls worst year as OC, but it is starting to show the issues might be less him and the big tuna instead.

 

If McDermott wants to run more he is in the right. We scored 3 points trying to pass on every down in the 1st half. We scored 24 points when we incorporated a run game in the 2nd half. It doesn't get clearer than that.

 

Our offensive line is not good enough to hold up when the defense knows what's coming on every play. I also think we are actually good at running when Singletary or Breida or Allen are the ones carrying the ball and we call zone blocking plays. We ran very effectively against the best run defense in the league yesterday. Daboll just doesn't care to try and it has been holding us back all year.

[nedboy7]

Now our WRs suck?  What a melt down on here today.  Too bad the refs couldn't make the right call.  We would be talking about what a great comeback win that was and how much heart the team showed.  Too bad. One call can change the week long narrative.  

[HappyDays]

Just now, nedboy7 said:

Now our WRs suck?  What a melt down on here today.  Too bad the refs couldn't make the right call.  We would be talking about what a great comeback win that was and how much heart the team showed.  Too bad. One call can change the week long narrative.  

 

It would be the same narrative whether we won or lost. Allen is carrying this offense right now. Diggs has not been himself these past couple of weeks, Beasley is running like he aged 10 years since last season, Sanders has been meh, Davis makes tough plays but can't consistently separate on routes... Absolutely it is a huge need next year. Imagine if Allen had the Bucs skill players. We would be unstoppable.

[corta765]

5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

If McDermott wants to run more he is in the right. We scored 3 points trying to pass on every down in the 1st half. We scored 24 points when we incorporated a run game in the 2nd half. It doesn't get clearer than that.

 

Our offensive line is not good enough to hold up when the defense knows what's coming on every play. I also think we are actually good at running when Singletary or Breida or Allen are the ones carrying the ball and we call zone blocking plays. We ran very effectively against the best run defense in the league yesterday. Daboll just doesn't care to try and it has been holding us back all year.

 

That is a really basic take. The offense worked because the offensive line stopped being completely offensive to watch, the WR/TEs started running routes that beat, and Josh basically turned into god mode. Remember he ran for 100 plus yards not the other guys. Not saying the running game didn't have some impact, but the air game forever is the bread and butter they just finally mixed it well in design and Allen made plays all over. Truthfully felt like the first time since TEN Allen was allowed to just do whatever he wanted.

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

 Beasley is running like he aged 10 years since last season

 

I have really wondered if his knee injury from the end of last year is taking its toll. Knee injuries are no joke and can really mess with a player. I 100% agree Beasley has not looked right and for a guy that forever gets open and catches everything, he hasn't been that.

[TheCockSportif]

10 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

Now our WRs suck?  What a melt down on here today.  Too bad the refs couldn't make the right call.  We would be talking about what a great comeback win that was and how much heart the team showed.  Too bad. One call can change the week long narrative.  

The only consistent weapon in the Bills arsenal on O is Allen.  He's exceptional.  This team would have probably 3 or 4 wins at this point in season without him.  He's a ***** stud.  Thank goodness that he plays for our favorite team.

 

None of us know what lead to a sudden resurgence of heart on this team in the second half.  And I'm glad that it happened.  Maybe they go 10-7 and make the playoffs, which is my hope.  Who knows?

 

But for any Bills fan who's followed the team for an eternity, and I say this as a Bills' fan who's followed for about 45 years now, don't blame the refs for what the team didn't execute.  They have trended towards not converting 3rd downs all year.  Red zone offense is an abomination.  They can't run.  They can't block on the OL.  They tried this abortive punt fake on a 4th down.  ***** the refs.  Seriously, ***** them right in the eye.  But at the end of the day, if a team can't execute and rely on "hail mary" type of *****, then they will lose.  And they did.  Of course TB grabbed that jersey, because they could.  Know what would've kept TB honest?  Winning the game in earnest.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Groin

[HappyDays]

1 minute ago, corta765 said:

The offense worked because the offensive line stopped being completely offensive to watch

 

That didn't happen for no reason. When teams blitz you can run right past them. Do that enough times and suddenly the front 7 can't just tee off on every play. All year Bills fans have excused Daboll's obsession with passing on every down by saying that we can't run the ball. From what I saw against the Saints and Bucs we CAN run the ball out of the right personnel grouping and scheme. It just took us way too long to figure it out.

 

The offense we saw in the 2nd half yesterday could be the offense we see all the time. The Bucs didn't just lay down and die or get worn out. We were moving the ball at will because we abandoned a game plan consisting exclusively of 20 yard passes and RB screens. Quick passes, run the ball, when all else fails let Allen take off. That's how you game plan around bad pass protection.

[Maine-iac]

28 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

That didn't happen for no reason. When teams blitz you can run right past them. Do that enough times and suddenly the front 7 can't just tee off on every play. All year Bills fans have excused Daboll's obsession with passing on every down by saying that we can't run the ball. From what I saw against the Saints and Bucs we CAN run the ball out of the right personnel grouping and scheme. It just took us way too long to figure it out.

 

The offense we saw in the 2nd half yesterday could be the offense we see all the time. The Bucs didn't just lay down and die or get worn out. We were moving the ball at will because we abandoned a game plan consisting exclusively of 20 yard passes and RB screens. Quick passes, run the ball, when all else fails let Allen take off. That's how you game plan around bad pass protection.

 

[nedboy7]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

It would be the same narrative whether we won or lost. Allen is carrying this offense right now. Diggs has not been himself these past couple of weeks, Beasley is running like he aged 10 years since last season, Sanders has been meh, Davis makes tough plays but can't consistently separate on routes... Absolutely it is a huge need next year. Imagine if Allen had the Bucs skill players. We would be unstoppable.

 

You have a point.  To me it seems more scheme and play selection issues.  And with the OL/LB issues we have, spending on WR would be a luxury. 

1 hour ago, TheCockSportif said:

The only consistent weapon in the Bills arsenal on O is Allen.  He's exceptional.  This team would have probably 3 or 4 wins at this point in season without him.  He's a ***** stud.  Thank goodness that he plays for our favorite team.

 

None of us know what lead to a sudden resurgence of heart on this team in the second half.  And I'm glad that it happened.  Maybe they go 10-7 and make the playoffs, which is my hope.  Who knows?

 

But for any Bills fan who's followed the team for an eternity, and I say this as a Bills' fan who's followed for about 45 years now, don't blame the refs for what the team didn't execute.  They have trended towards not converting 3rd downs all year.  Red zone offense is an abomination.  They can't run.  They can't block on the OL.  They tried this abortive punt fake on a 4th down.  ***** the refs.  Seriously, ***** them right in the eye.  But at the end of the day, if a team can't execute and rely on "hail mary" type of *****, then they will lose.  And they did.  Of course TB grabbed that jersey, because they could.  Know what would've kept TB honest?  Winning the game in earnest.

 

I really like the part about putting a sharp object in the refs eye.  You make a good argument.  I do not buy into the hysteria that JA is the only warrior on this team.  That is a reductionist hot take.  Saw some of that yesterday.  Yeah the defense took 2 quarters to wake up.  Then they played a great second half.  The fake punt made me puke.  Dabol needs a new job regardless of whose decision that was. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Numerous receivers have had career years with Allen. It is no longer a coincidence. The last two weeks he is the only offensive player that has been making exceptional plays. Even Diggs has been disappointing. I think Diggs last year would have caught the long TD pass against the Pats and another long TD pass right before halftime yesterday. Those two plays alone are the difference between 9-4 controlling our own destiny for the #1 seed, and 7-6 fighting for a wildcard spot. This offense badly needs playmakers. 

That pass in the pats game felt pretty unlucky…really a lot of these losses do.  Josh threw a perfect ball but to account for the wind the ball ended up in a spot where it was difficult for diggs to track.  Hoping our luck changes going forward we are just snakebit and can’t make one more play a game despite numerous opportunities.   bucs and titans games we probably win both if Josh’s shoe is a half size smaller 😂 Steelers receivers just made every play in tight coverage against us it was absurd.  Colts and jaguars losses were bad news and pretty unforgivable.  Playoffs are a whole new ballgame if we make it there I think we’re capable of anything 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[TheCockSportif]

20 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

 

You have a point.  To me it seems more scheme and play selection issues.  And with the OL/LB issues we have, spending on WR would be a luxury. 

 

I really like the part about putting a sharp object in the refs eye.  You make a good argument.  I do not buy into the hysteria that JA is the only warrior on this team.  That is a reductionist hot take.  Saw some of that yesterday.  Yeah the defense took 2 quarters to wake up.  Then they played a great second half.  The fake punt made me puke.  Dabol needs a new job regardless of whose decision that was. 

Maybe it is a "reductionist hot take", but Diggs (and maybe it's an injury?) has been kinda absent as of late.  Davis seems really good.  Knox, who I thought was finally awesome this year, finally started to turn the hot water tap on yesterday again.  Sanders is not the answer.  Beas can still catch, but he seems kinda slow to me.  Breida, well... Breida.  Moss sucks.  Singletary has his moments.  But I think that you know what I was getting at...

 

And it's not just Daboll.  It's McD as well.  I've had great bosses over the years who weren't great enough for the company, and they were forced to move on.  I'm 100% for McD getting another year (although I think that the franchise should figure out longer term plans -- oh, wait.  hang on... they own the Sabres as well?!), but at some point this team is like shaking a raw pork belly.  Second half of yesterday you kind of hope that they keep up that intensity through the end of the year.

[BobbyC81]

9 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

The punt on 4th and 3 is all you need to know about McD…. Dude still can’t shake the chicken ***** scared coaching on game day. 

I’ve occasionally had this thought:  If given the choice right now, who would you rather have, Diggs or Justin Jefferson?  I would choose Jefferson.

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Diggs is at the point where he’s not even playing the ball and just looking for a flag every time the ball comes his way, really infuriating to watch. 

It is infuriating, I agree.

 

even more infuriating is the fact that the corners are getting away with it.  I expect more and more holding from our opposition.   It stands out if you watch the tape.  

[3rdand12]

21 hours ago, Maine-iac said:

There is a clear correlation to Singletary getting carries and the offense scoring points.  I'm not saying Singletary scores the points but I am saying that it helps the passing game if you at least attempt to run the ball.  That's what I have said since week 5 on and can't figure out why it doesn't happen.  As far as the defense we seem to have a lack of people who            hit guys hard enough to make them fall down.             I feel like even the guys we currently have used to hit people and make them fall down.  Lately it seems like they are just trying to grab some legs as they get run over.

Under rated perspective.
Describes Edmunds at least
But yes
Bills Defense needs to learn the Lost Art of BLOWING UP a play with a Hit.

Love your post
 

21 hours ago, PonyBoy said:

 

Understandable Virg. So many on this board put so much thought and effort into their posts. Nobody probably more than you! Maybe that's why Bill from NYC passed the torch. Heavy lies the crown as the saying goes. Thank you!

Pony boy carry me home
"Dickie Betts/Allman Bros

[LeGOATski]

22 hours ago, Virgil said:

2 - Daboll - Coming into this game, you knew thew Bucs could do one thing well on defense, and that was rush the passer.  With that being said, why did Daboll leave only 5 players in to block so much?  More so, with the amount of DB blitzes, leave Motor in the backfield as extra pass protection.  I say Motor very specifically because Breida got absolutely run over when he tried to make a block.  McKenzie ran a Jet Sweep threat only one time which pretty much sums up Daboll's attempt to confuse the defense, move the pocket, or do anything at all to slow down the Bucs pass rush.  While we did get it going in the second half, there's still no excuse for the first half performance or the 3 and out in OT.  I don't feel like this team has any "go to" plays anymore and there's no overall theme on offense.  Each drive and 3rd down play feels like a toss up.  This has been an ongoing theme this past month and it's one thing to just get beat up front, it's another to not plan for it at all. 

 

5 - Defensive Line - I almost labeled this thought pass rush, but that would indicate that the Bills have one.  Brady had literally all day to throw and this 40 million dollar defensive line with multiple first round pics was beyond pathetic in this game.  You can see the frustration brewing from the players and Oliver is a ticking time bomb of a personal foul.  I've been able to tolerate McD's rotation on the line, but we aren't able to rush the passer or stop the run with these guys and aren't getting a ROI.  Groot has been non-existent since the first few weeks.  Addison's had one good game, and threw in an offside in this game.  Hughes is the kind of almost sacks and missed holding calls.  Oliver is high motor, undisciplined, and I'm waiting for more PFs against him.

Nice write-up as always.

 

This is the most puzzling thing to me. Where is the offensive creativity and the go-to plays we saw last year? I agree that it feels like we're back in the drought where there's no hope of converting a 3rd and long or even get 3 yards. I think McDermott's decision to punt on 4th and 3 reflects the same lack of faith we fans feel in Daboll to call a solid play and the players to execute.

 

On the pass rush, I fully expected nothing to happen there. Pass blocking is their strength and Brady's ability to get the ball out in 2.3 seconds means he rarely gets sacked.

[3rdand12]

22 minutes ago, NewEra said:

It is infuriating, I agree.

 

even more infuriating is the fact that the corners are getting away with it.  I expect more and more holding from our opposition.   It stands out if you watch the tape.  

Diggs has absolutely been getting the business.
 he needs to overcome the "Jerry Hughes " syndrome of being held and interfered with and the blatant no calls.
infuriating ? heck yes.
Sunday was a fine example

3 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

It would be the same narrative whether we won or lost. Allen is carrying this offense right now. Diggs has not been himself these past couple of weeks, Beasley is running like he aged 10 years since last season, Sanders has been meh, Davis makes tough plays but can't consistently separate on routes... Absolutely it is a huge need next year. Imagine if Allen had the Bucs skill players. We would be unstoppable.

well I am going to say it
Allen has had same real struggles too.

 Thrown away key balls where he did not need to.  Thrown very tough passes to catch. 
Its a Daboll thing. not a WR thing
Get the guys open, get a rhythm  and Josh will tear it up
we have seen it
and fix that o line communication please

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

Diggs has absolutely been getting the business.
 he needs to overcome the "Jerry Hughes " syndrome of being held and interfered with and the blatant no calls.
infuriating ? heck yes.
Sunday was a fine example

Seriously.  The refs have turned on Diggs and now have a strange Hugheslike hatred. I get why some of them may have disliked Jerry.  I don’t get it with Diggs.  It just doesn’t add up, but he’s definitely been getting the shaft this season.  

[3rdand12]

27 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Seriously.  The refs have turned on Diggs and now have a strange Hugheslike hatred. I get why some of them may have disliked Jerry.  I don’t get it with Diggs.  It just doesn’t add up, but he’s definitely been getting the shaft this season.  

 re watching games or all-22 etc really tells the story about how Bills still struggle to get many neutral Refereeing in critical games and moment within the game
 

Gives me a headache
 

[NewEra]

11 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

 re watching games or all-22 etc really tells the story about how Bills still struggle to get many neutral Refereeing in critical games and moment within the game
 

Gives me a headache
 

Word.  That’s one of the reasons I feel so strongly. I’ve been a game pass member for several years now and usually watch each game 1-2 times. 

[nedboy7]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

LB issues? I’m sorry WR is way more a priority than LB… The Bills off-season should consist of stacking the offense with a few tweaks to the defense… a loaded offense with a better line and more playmakers for Allen is this teams best shot at winning a SB…. Not a LB who’s better at stopping the run. 

 

I am good with that.  But then you might need to stop picking on TE since you are suggesting he is serviceable at the least.   I think you build a real line and those WRs are gonna be ok.  It's not logical they all took a step back all of a sudden.   A WR pick in the draft still would be nice as well.