Breakdown of Leonard Fournette 47 yard touchdown

[HoofHearted]

5 minutes ago, bouds said:

 

Thanks for breaking this down, question for you, what do you think of Dan's take.  Watching it live I felt like maybe we had to switch the crossers off?  And Dan alludes to that but then doesn't mention that Jackson never switched off.

 

 

Yeah, he's essentially saying the same thing I am. Typically in 1 RAT Coverage you're going to pass off the shallow crossers to whoever the RAT is. The shallow cross must be working IN FRONT of the RAT for this to be done though so that he can step up and impede the path of the receiver to slow him down in order to allow him to continue carrying. If it's behind the RAT then the DB should carry that across the field.

[Dopey]

22 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

I had a breakdown of this play here. A few posts below that is the X's and O's drawn up. Basically it came down to a total collapse of the entire defense. Everyone was wrong.

Appreciate that. Nice read and you did mention Milano Milano needing to be there for the cutback and Hyde over pursuing. Again, thanks. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 hour ago, HoofHearted said:

 

 

Just a few years ago, that diagram would have signified Rob Ryan going down to the canteen for a snack, after pausing to talk to Wrecks, who is going on a crossing pattern, out to the truck for a 3 p.m. exit.  The fly pattern up the middle is Brandon looking for interns.

*
Seriously, thank you for the true insights you've brought to the board, despite idiots like me. 😁

[Big Turk]

2 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

3rd and 1 - Edmunds fit great and whiffed the tackle because he stopped his feet on contact. No reason to draw that one up.

 

Game Winning TD - Bills were playing 1 Rat coverage - a variation of Cover 1 (Man Free) and rushing 5. They stunt up front on the defensive left side pinching the 3 tech and 5 tech inside and blitzing Milano off the edge. The 3 tech and 9 tech to the defensive right rushed their lanes respectively. Everyone else is responsible for coverage. It's man so everyone except Poyer (F) has a man responsibility. Wallace (defensive right) has the furthest receiver outside, Johnson ($) has the #2 receiver to that side, Hyde (S) has the Tight End, Edmunds responsible for the back if he releases and is free otherwise, and Jackson (defensive left) has the furthest receiver outside to his side of the field. When they short motioned the outside receiver to the strong side of the field (defensive right) and he worked into a stack alignment with the receiver on the LoS Wallace and Johnson should have checked to a combo coverage here. Combo means Johnson is responsible for the first in-cutting route and Wallace is responsible for the first out-cutting route. There was zero communication and both Wallace and Johnson took #14 on the out-cutting route and no one was on the in-cutting route which was eventually thrown. Based on how i've seen the Bills play their 1 high coverage in the past Johnson should have carried the crosser since it went overtop of Edmunds (Typically in 1 Rat if a cross goes in front of the RAT player then they pick up the cross and whoever was on the receiver running the cross now becomes the RAT). Can't see Poyer in the highlight clip, but I'd assume he was "collected" by the vertical that Gronk ran and it took him out of the play entirely.

 

Again, it comes down to players all not being on the same page which caused a failure in execution.

Agreed. Our tackling as a defense has taken a huge step back this year. That's one thing (as a coach) I used to be able to point to that the Bills did a really good job of. This year it's like they threw everything they'd done in the past in regards to tackling fundamentals out the window. It needs to be fixed.

 

I hate to point this out but they were among the league leaders in missed tackles last year. Seems like people either have short memories or just completely misremember things the further they get away from them...which is actually pretty common

Edited December 13, 2021 by Big Turk

[Robert Paulson]

15 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

Tampa runs Buck Sweep on 1st and 10 and catch Buffalo rolling 3 weak. Buffalo is beat at birth right here based on alignment since they have Rousseau lined up in a 7 tech instead of a 9 and their Sam linebacker (Milano) playing a 50 and having to set the edge from depth. Milano's responsibility is to set the edge so he is going to take on the first puller with outside leverage forcing Edmunds to take on the second puller with outside leverage and force the play back inside to the Will/Nickel (Johnson) and Strong Safety (Poyer). Johnson missed the tackle and Poyer got worked by the Left Tackle as the Alley player allowing the touchdown. Edminds fit his gap assignment. Anyone who says he overran the play doesn't understand football and run fit assignments.

 

Flame on haters.... @AlCowlingsTaxiService @LABillsBacker @Rick 'r Mortis

 

 

whatever the writeup/responsibilities were- all Truman had to do was keep filling the hole he had filled and engage the running back. instead he ran past the hole to engage the blocker.  it is inexcusable as the first responsibility is to get the guy with the ball down on the ground. 

[bouds]

3 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

Yeah, he's essentially saying the same thing I am. Typically in 1 RAT Coverage you're going to pass off the shallow crossers to whoever the RAT is. The shallow cross must be working IN FRONT of the RAT for this to be done though so that he can step up and impede the path of the receiver to slow him down in order to allow him to continue carrying. If it's behind the RAT then the DB should carry that across the field.

So Edmunds is RAT, he has to disrupt and carry the crosser, but should he ultimately pass it off to Jackson or carry it across the entire way.

[RichRiderBills]

The purpose of gap coverage is not to fill a gap by hopelessly engaging with an OL while the ball crosses your path and you don't disengage. 

 

The film does not lie: Edmunds is tunnel vision focused on meeting an OL in a hole, at the cost of letting the ball carrier cross in front of him. He is also unable to disengage to attempt a tackle. This isn't some inflexible system, it's a screw up. 

 

I will tip my hat that other players like Poyer, who gets buried. And Hyde could have stopped the TD, but Edmunds is mainly at fault. 

 

 

 

[HoofHearted]

6 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said:

whatever the writeup/responsibilities were- all Truman had to do was keep filling the hole he had filled and engage the running back. instead he ran past the hole to engage the blocker.  it is inexcusable as the first responsibility is to get the guy with the ball down on the ground. 

Read this.

3 minutes ago, bouds said:

So Edmunds is RAT, he has to disrupt and carry the crosser, but should he ultimately pass it off to Jackson or carry it across the entire way.

If the crosser came in front of him he’d have it man to man. Since it went behind Johnson should have carried it all the way.

[Nitro]

13 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

Is there a breakdown for when Edmunds couldn't stop Fournette on a 3rd and 1 in the backfield, then got burned by Tom Brady's eyes that led to the game winning TD?

What MLB in the NFL is asked to cover a WR on a crossing route?  H

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, RichRiderBills said:

The purpose of gap coverage is not to fill a gap by hopelessly engaging with an OL while the ball crosses your path and you don't disengage. 

 

The film does not lie: Edmunds is tunnel vision focused on meeting an OL in a hole, at the cost of letting the ball carrier cross in front of him. He is also unable to disengage to attempt a tackle. This isn't some inflexible system, it's a screw up. 

 

I will tip my hat that other players like Poyer, who gets buried. And Hyde could have stopped the TD, but Edmunds is mainly at fault. 

 

 

 

Gap responsibilities are basically identifying where you are supposed to be and making sure your fit is sound. If there is a puller you must engage on balance and fit. That is largely how the defensive roles along the front 7 are organized. The goal of our alignments and run fits the majority of the time rely on the front seven playing fundamentally gap sound defense and leaving a DB free to make the tackle. McDermott and Frazier want sound run fits first and then brilliant individual play second, NOT the other way around. That is why they shipped Jordan Phillips out after a career year.

[HoofHearted]

4 minutes ago, RichRiderBills said:

The purpose of gap coverage is not to fill a gap by hopelessly engaging with an OL while the ball crosses your path and you don't disengage. 

 

The film does not lie: Edmunds is tunnel vision focused on meeting an OL in a hole, at the cost of letting the ball carrier cross in front of him. He is also unable to disengage to attempt a tackle. This isn't some inflexible system, it's a screw up. 

 

I will tip my hat that other players like Poyer, who gets buried. And Hyde could have stopped the TD, but Edmunds is mainly at fault. 

 

 

 

Incorrect, sir. Read this. It talks about if he fit tighter as you suggested. Gap integrity is the fundamental building block that run defense is built around. Every man has a responsibility and when they don’t do it the whole thing collapses. The ball hit in Taron Johnson’s gap - he missed the tackle - they scored.

[bouds]

Man I live for this stuff.  I feel like I know a few things, but I wish we focused more on this sort of stuff than fire X.

[bigduke6]

good breakdown i guess,  doesnt explain why Edmunds cant ever shed a blocker tho.

Edited December 13, 2021 by bigduke6

[HoofHearted]

Just now, bigduke6 said:

good breakdown i guess,  doesnt explain why Edmunds cant ever get off a block.  

Well that’s easy - because he’s 6’5” and takes on blockers standing straight up. Loses the leverage battle and isn’t very active with his hands to either shock and shed or hand fight so they can’t get their hands on him in the first place.

[HoofHearted]

2 minutes ago, Old Coot said:

Good question.  I was referring to the sideline dumpoffs.  It seems that our dumpoffs get less yardage than dumpoffs by other teams and I wondered if that had to do with Josh's ball placement.

 

Your analysis is excellent.  You are the Romo of this board. I hope that you will continue to do analysis of crucial plays in games. The average fan -- & I include myself here -- just sees what happens on a play on the surface, not the intricacies of what the O & D were trying to do.  As a result we often think that the play call was bad when in fact, as you have shown, the fault may lie in the execution.

 

On an unrelated note re that fade to Diggs at the end of regulation.  Some have said it was a bone head call but maybe not.  Diggs was singled up and the DB had inside leverage so it seems to me that the fade to Diggs was the correct call.  Do you agree?

Good question.  I was referring to the sideline dumpoffs.  It seems that our dumpoffs get less yardage than dumpoffs by other teams and I wondered if that had to do with Josh's ball placement.

 

Your analysis is excellent.  You are the Romo of this board. I hope that you will continue to do analysis of crucial plays in games. The average fan -- & I include myself here -- just sees what happens on a play on the surface, not the intricacies of what the O & D were trying to do.  As a result we often think that the play call was bad when in fact, as you have shown, the fault may lie in the execution.

 

On an unrelated note re that fade to Diggs at the end of regulation.  Some have said it was a bone head call but maybe not.  Diggs was singled up and the DB had inside leverage so it seems to me that the fade to Diggs was the correct call.  Do you agree?

Good question.  I was referring to the sideline dumpoffs.  It seems that our dumpoffs get less yardage than dumpoffs by other teams and I wondered if that had to do with Josh's ball placement.

 

Your analysis is excellent.  You are the Romo of this board. I hope that you will continue to do analysis of crucial plays in games. The average fan -- & I include myself here -- just sees what happens on a play on the surface, not the intricacies of what the O & D were trying to do.  As a result we often think that the play call was bad when in fact, as you have shown, the fault may lie in the execution.

 

On an unrelated note re that fade to Diggs at the end of regulation.  Some have said it was a bone head call but maybe not.  Diggs was singled up and the DB had inside leverage so it seems to me that the fade to Diggs was the correct call.  Do you agree?

Good question.  I was referring to the sideline dumpoffs.  It seems that our dumpoffs get less yardage than dumpoffs by other teams and I wondered if that had to do with Josh's ball placement.

 

Your analysis is excellent.  You are the Romo of this board. I hope that you will continue to do analysis of crucial plays in games. The average fan -- & I include myself here -- just sees what happens on a play on the surface, not the intricacies of what the O & D were trying to do.  As a result we often think that the play call was bad when in fact, as you have shown, the fault may lie in the execution.

 

On an unrelated note re that fade to Diggs at the end of regulation.  Some have said it was a bone head call but maybe not.  Diggs was singled up and the DB had inside leverage so it seems to me that the fade to Diggs was the correct call.  Do you agree?

Good question.  I was referring to the sideline dumpoffs.  It seems that our dumpoffs get less yardage than dumpoffs by other teams and I wondered if that had to do with Josh's ball placement.

 

Your analysis is excellent.  You are the Romo of this board. I hope that you will continue to do analysis of crucial plays in games. The average fan -- & I include myself here -- just sees what happens on a play on the surface, not the intricacies of what the O & D were trying to do.  As a result we often think that the play call was bad when in fact, as you have shown, the fault may lie in the execution.

 

On an unrelated note re that fade to Diggs at the end of regulation.  Some have said it was a bone head call but maybe not.  Diggs was singled up and the DB had inside leverage so it seems to me that the fade to Diggs was the correct call.  Do you agree?

On those sideline throws you’re taught as a QB to throw to the inside hip of the receiver which forces them to turn back to the ball slowing down their momentum so they don’t run out of bounds and allowing them to get some yac. This is just a general rule obviously - certain coverages and field position will change where you want to place the ball.

 

As far as the play to Diggs I think they had the right mindset. Throw to your best receiver who’s singled up. Only so many routes you can run that close to the endzone - fade, slant, whip, or cross. If they thought the fade gave them the best chance then I’d tend to agree with them. They’re around those guys way more than we are.

[Coach Tuesday]

The Patriots were doing this thing on running plays where they strung out their runs sideways and waited until the defenders (linebackers in particular) hit their gaps and took on blockers, and then cut upfield and past the defense.  Over and over again with little adjustment from Frazier and co.

[RichRiderBills]

35 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

Incorrect, sir. Read this. It talks about if he fit tighter as you suggested. Gap integrity is the fundamental building block that run defense is built around. Every man has a responsibility and when they don’t do it the whole thing collapses. The ball hit in Taron Johnson’s gap - he missed the tackle - they scored.

 

You don't allow the ballcarrier to run right by you for the sake of holding your gap. It's silly. The gap system is not as rigid as you portray. 

[HoofHearted]

10 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

The Patriots were doing this thing on running plays where they strung out their runs sideways and waited until the defenders (linebackers in particular) hit their gaps and took on blockers, and then cut upfield and past the defense.  Over and over again with little adjustment from Frazier and co.

Yeah they ran a lot of G Lead and Outside Zone against us from condensed sets forcing our corners to set an edge. For the most part we handled it well, the long run being the exception.

1 minute ago, RichRiderBills said:

 

You don't allow the ballcarrier to run right by you for the sake of holding your gap. It's silly. The gap system is not as rigid as you portray. 

It is my friend.

[CookieG]

4 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

It’s a catch 22. If Edmunds were to have fit tighter in the gap Fournette ultimately hits then the Guard who is wrapping on the Buck Sweep will just hinge back inside on Edmunds and Fournette hits in between the two pulling guards (in the gap Edmunds filled) for likely the same outcome. Everything with stopping the run has to work in unison - when guys don’t do their job and instead do their own thing is when you have breakdowns.

I don't agree that it was a Catch22. First, Edmunds had inside leverage on the guard.  Second, his head was above the guard's left shoulder.  He had perfect line of sight on Fournette, probably the best line of sight of anyone on the D. There was no reason for him not to see Fournette's cut upfield.

 

When Fournette makes his cut, Edmunds does nothing to attempt to mirror him and in fact, keeps moving outside.  By the time he makes any type of move back to the inside, Fournette has taken three strides up field and is long gone. 

 

https://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=32854225&ex_cid=espnapi_internal

 

It can be argued, perhaps, that he couldn't have shed and came back to make a tackle in time...but the point is moot because he never even attempted to do so.

 

But I also realize that he was drafted for his size/speed/COD skills. It is in a situation like that where those skills come in handy.

 

Someone else said it best about Edmunds.  By the time he diagnoses a play, the RB is already through the hole.

 

In below average QB's, some call it slow eyes.  And that's what he has.

 

 

 

[HoofHearted]

9 minutes ago, CookieG said:

I don't agree that it was a Catch22. First, Edmunds had inside leverage on the guard.  Second, his head was above the guard's left shoulder.  He had perfect line of sight on Fournette, probably the best line of sight of anyone on the D. There was no reason for him not to see Fournette's cut upfield.

 

When Fournette makes his cut, Edmunds does nothing to attempt to mirror him and in fact, keeps moving outside.  By the time he makes any type of move back to the inside, Fournette has taken three strides up field and is long gone. 

 

https://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=32854225&ex_cid=espnapi_internal

 

It can be argued, perhaps, that he couldn't have shed and came back to make a tackle in time...but the point is moot because he never even attempted to do so.

 

But I also realize that he was drafted for his size/speed/COD skills. It is in a situation like that where those skills come in handy.

 

Someone else said it best about Edmunds.  By the time he diagnoses a play, the RB is already through the hole.

 

In below average QB's, some call it slow eyes.  And that's what he has.

 

 

 

You can disagree all you want - what you are saying isn't within the scope of the defense (or any defense). Defensive players have run fits and they must all fit correctly to get stops. He fit correctly. It hit inside and the person who was supposed to fit inside of him missed the tackle. That's all there is to it.

 

Without a hat in every gap you get gashed.

Edited December 13, 2021 by HoofHearted