If anyone wants to say the NFL isn't rigged, please re-watch that game

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

The Bills don't run a true fade.  Allen to Diggs on that side has become a go-to route for the Bills because of Allen's accuracy, Diggs's ability to shake defenders at the line of scrimmage, and Diggs's hands.   They love going there.   Of course, opponents know that.  And, of course, the Bills know the only defenders can stop it is by holding or interfering.  The Bills got exactly what they expected, except the ref didn't make the call.  

 

The problem is you've now left the play up to perfect execution from Allen and Diggs with no other options. No matter how well the play is covered by the CB the throw is pre-determined. And fades are always lower percentage plays. With that play call on the most critical 3rd down of the game you are basically neutering the most dangerous red zone QB in the league by taking away what makes him dangerous, his arm strength and mobility. Anyone can just throw a fade... give me a play call that takes advantage of the athletic freak we have playing QB. If the passing window isn't there he'll find a way.

 

4 hours ago, NewEra said:

They trusted an elite QB to throw a fade to one of the best ball tracking wrs ever.

 

Allen isn't elite because of his ball placement on fades... It is a low percentage play call. I would trust Allen on a RPO over that 100% of the time. The dude was in the middle of willing his team to victory and we called the most vanilla red zone play in the book. With Derek Carr as my QB, sure. With Allen we should expect better.

Edited December 14, 2021 by HappyDays

[NewEra]

7 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

The problem is you've now left the play up to perfect execution from Allen and Diggs with no other options. No matter how well the play is covered by the CB the throw is pre-determined. And fades are always lower percentage plays. With that play call on the most critical 3rd down of the game you are basically neutering the most dangerous red zone QB in the league by taking away what makes him dangerous, his arm strength and mobility. Anyone can just throw a fade... give me a play call that takes advantage of the athletic freak we have playing QB. If the passing window isn't there he'll find a way.

 

 

Allen isn't elite because of his ball placement on fades... It is a low percentage play call. I would trust Allen on a RPO over that 100% of the time. The dude was in the middle of willing his team to victory and we called the most vanilla red zone play in the book. With Derek Carr as my QB, sure. With Allen we should expect better.

Oh. Ok.  I saw Diggs school the cornerback into making him fall and grab him with 2 hands in order to prevent a wide open TD.  Looked good to me

[Dr. Who]

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Oh. Ok.  I saw Diggs school the cornerback into making him fall and grab him with 2 hands in order to prevent a wide open TD.  Looked good to me

The problem with that theory is an expectation that the refs are competent and on the level.

[Protocal69]

A play that is not being talked about that I feel set the tone and the momentum of the game early was a 2nd and 10 play with 8:27 left in the 1st qrt and a terrible defense holding call was made against Taron Johnson on Mike Evans. So instead of being 3rd and 10, it became 1st and 10 and the VERY next play Fournette ran for that long TD run. smh

[SCBills]

I have to check out of the officiating talk from Sunday, because it’s now Tuesday and I’m still fuming over it.  
 

After hearing the commentary from former players and media, reading articles, all calling out the egregiously one-sided officiating, it’s becoming really hard to believe this is simply just incompetence….and I don’t want to be thinking that.  

[NewEra]

11 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

The problem with that theory is an expectation that the refs are competent and on the level.

We’ll, I think that the point of the throw is to get Diggs open and catch the TD…..not to get a dpi- he would’ve been open if not for getting choked out.  

[Gordio]

17 hours ago, theRalph said:

Horseshiit. The refs are as guilty as egg-sucking dogs in this case. Timing is everything. When the public can see it but they can't, it is a major issue that needs to be solved. 

 

 

Not sure where you got this quote but I never said that, not sure how it was posted which is kind of concerning.  I feel the exact same way as you.  The refs stole this game.

[Shaw66]

8 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

The problem is you've now left the play up to perfect execution from Allen and Diggs with no other options. No matter how well the play is covered by the CB the throw is pre-determined. And fades are always lower percentage plays. With that play call on the most critical 3rd down of the game you are basically neutering the most dangerous red zone QB in the league by taking away what makes him dangerous, his arm strength and mobility. Anyone can just throw a fade... give me a play call that takes advantage of the athletic freak we have playing QB. If the passing window isn't there he'll find a way.

 

 

Allen isn't elite because of his ball placement on fades... It is a low percentage play call. I would trust Allen on a RPO over that 100% of the time. The dude was in the middle of willing his team to victory and we called the most vanilla red zone play in the book. With Derek Carr as my QB, sure. With Allen we should expect better.

I won't argue with you about whether it's the best play to call.  What I said is the Bills love it.  But I think your analysis of the play is incorrect.   It isn't a true fade.  The fade is a pass where the receiver is heading toward the sideline and the QB puts the ball up and ideally over the receiver.  The defender is always on the inside, and the ball is essentially unplayable to him.  If the defender tries to take that away, the QB throws a backshoulder fade, so that the receiver can turn and stop, also leaving the defender unable to make a play. 

 

The Bills run essentially a down and out to Diggs.   The Bills strategy is that Diggs essentially always can get open, because the defender has to protect against the inside slant.  Diggs is so good off the line, he always can create a window on the outside.  He and Allen have developed great chemistry on the play, so Allen reads Diggs well.  And Allen gets the ball into tight windows - the ball gets there so quickly that the defender, even if it's well covered, can't make the play.   For all those reasons, the Bills seem to think that play is a high-percentage throw.  They come back to it often.  And they go to Beasley that way, too, but in the red zone Diggs seems to be the preferred receiver.  

 

It's not a low-percentage throw.  However, it becomes a low-percentage throw when the defensive back does the only thing he can do to stop the play: hold Diggs and prevent him from making his cut.  When that happens, the defender and Diggs are just standing side by side, upright, and there's no place to throw the ball. The Bills count on the official to make the proper call.  

 

Now let's talk about the play selection.  The Bills like that play, but I think what you said is the important point.   You're wrong about Allen being a great red zone QB.  He hasn't been this year, for sure.   But he SHOULD be.  He should be Aaron Rodgers+.  Rodgers kills teams in the red zone with a combination of brains, scrambling ability, and an arm that puts the ball into tight places.  Allen can do all of that, plus he's clearly a better power runner than Rodgers, so he brings that element, too.  The Bills can come at you in the red zone with quick short slants from Beasley and Diggs, with Knox and Davis running crossers on the back end of the end zone, with play action up the middle and tight ends flaring to the near pylon, with power sweeps with Allen.  And Allen should be able to execute all that.  It seems to me, and I think you, that the Bills should be more or less automatic inside the ten.  Yes, the defense gets to tighten up a lot, but Diggs and Beasley are two of the best at that maddening short game off the line, and Knox and Gabriel each have become solid possession-type receivers with decent size.  The weapons are there, the arm is there, and Allen's running ability is special for QBs.   

 

So, if the play to Diggs was a bad play to run, I think it was bad not because it's low-percentage, but because it's been clear this year that that's the play they like to run down there.  The Bills are talented enough that they shouldn't have any obvious tendencies in that situation.  If you're going to play Diggs that tight off the line of scrimmage, then we're going to get him and someone else inside releases and throw it there.  

Edited December 14, 2021 by Shaw66

[The Red King]

It was the right call.  The play showed it.  The defender was beat, which would have been a TD, PI, or holding at the worst, had the refs done their job 

 

Alright, to those defending the refs, a simple yes/no question.  Had the roles been reversed, had Brady and Tampa mounted a huge comeback and the play unfold identically where the Tampa reciever been mugged, can you look me in the eyes and honestly say there is any doubt there would have been a flag.  Go on, I dare you.

 

Now, two refs were looking right at it.  The only change in my scenario were the QB and jerseys.  Why would there be a flag there for them?  Either both refs are biased Brady fans, in which case neither should ever work a Brady game again...or the refs were encouraged to nudge the game for Tampa, which is what we're suggesting.

 

I welcome rebuttal.

[Dr. Who]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

We’ll, I think that the point of the throw is to get Diggs open and catch the TD…..not to get a dpi- he would’ve been open if not for getting choked out.  

I understand. Just expressing bitterness at injustice without redress.

[Billsfan1972]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I won't argue with you about whether it's the best play to call.  What I said is the Bills love it.  But I think your analysis of the play is incorrect.   It isn't a true fade.  The fade is a pass where the receiver is heading toward the sideline and the QB puts the ball up and ideally over the receiver.  The defender is always on the inside, and the ball is essentially unplayable to him.  If the defender tries to take that away, the QB throws a backshoulder fade, so that the receiver can turn and stop, also leaving the defender unable to make a play. 

 

The Bills run essentially a down and out to Diggs.   The Bills strategy is that Diggs essentially always can get open, because the defender has to protect against the inside slant.  Diggs is so good off the line, he always can create a window on the outside.  He and Allen have developed great chemistry on the play, so Allen reads Diggs well.  And Allen gets the ball into tight windows - the ball gets there so quickly that the defender, even if it's well covered, can't make the play.   For all those reasons, the Bills seem to think that play is a high-percentage throw.  They come back to it often.  And they go to Beasley that way, too, but in the red zone Diggs seems to be the preferred receiver.  

 

It's not a low-percentage throw.  However, it becomes a low-percentage throw when the defensive back does the only thing he can do to stop the play: hold Diggs and prevent him from making his cut.  When that happens, the defender and Diggs are just standing side by side, upright, and there's no place to throw the ball. The Bills count on the official to make the proper call.  

 

Now let's talk about the play selection.  The Bills like that play, but I think what you said is the important point.   You're wrong about Allen being a great red zone QB.  He hasn't been this year, for sure.   But he SHOULD be.  He should be Aaron Rodgers+.  Rodgers kills teams in the red zone with a combination of brains, scrambling ability, and an arm that puts the ball into tight places.  Allen can do all of that, plus he's clearly a better power runner than Rodgers, so he brings that element, too.  The Bills can come at you in the red zone with quick short slants from Beasley and Diggs, with Knox and Davis running crossers on the back end of the end zone, with play action up the middle and tight ends flaring to the near pylon, with power sweeps with Allen.  And Allen should be able to execute all that.  It seems to me, and I think you, that the Bills should be more or less automatic inside the ten.  Yes, the defense gets to tighten up a lot, but Diggs and Beasley are two of the best at that maddening short game off the line, and Knox and Gabriel each have become solid possession-type receivers with decent size.  The weapons are there, the arm is there, and Allen's running ability is special for QBs.   

 

So, if the play to Diggs was a bad play to run, I think it was bad not because it's low-percentage, but because it's been clear this year that that's the play they like to run down there.  The Bills are talented enough that they shouldn't have any obvious tendencies in that situation.  If you're going to play Diggs that tight off the line of scrimmage, then we're going to get him and someone else inside releases and throw it there.  

And a similar throw to Diggs on third down in OT too was a penalty not called.  So many plays they can call and exploit Allen's unique skills & they don't.

 

This was a crucial play, 3rd & 2 and the Bills chose not to use Allen's best skills and 4-5 other players and were relying on a one on one battle and the refs making the right call.  Davis, Beasley, Knox, the RB & Allen's legs were not even an option.....

 

All year every Redzone TD seemed like a slog, requiring a perfect throw.

 

Did you see yesterday OBJ and the simple TD toss Stafford made?  Where has that been all year?

[CodeMonkey]

Serious question to all people who think the NFL games are rigged by officials being told to, "push to an outcome", keep it close, make one team win, and all of the other thoughts expressed in this thread.  If you truly believe this is going on week in and week out, why in the world would you continue to watch and be a fan of a team or the sport?  For example, when I was a little kid I used to watch WWE (called I think WWF at the time).  As soon as I figured out it was all acting, I stopped watching and haven't watched since.  Why would you continue to watch or care about the NFL in this case?

[Dr. Who]

1 hour ago, CodeMonkey said:

Serious question to all people who think the NFL games are rigged by officials being told to, "push to an outcome", keep it close, make one team win, and all of the other thoughts expressed in this thread.  If you truly believe this is going on week in and week out, why in the world would you continue to watch and be a fan of a team or the sport?  For example, when I was a little kid I used to watch WWE (called I think WWF at the time).  As soon as I figured out it was all acting, I stopped watching and haven't watched since.  Why would you continue to watch or care about the NFL in this case?

Addictions gained practically in the cradle are hard to quit. 

 

To answer truthfully, I think the situation is a gray area somewhere between wrestling and a just game. The little bit of hope that you might be good enough to beat the cheat makes it something more than irrational, though fandom is by definition not quite a product of lucid calculation is it?

[The Red King]

1 hour ago, CodeMonkey said:

Serious question to all people who think the NFL games are rigged by officials being told to, "push to an outcome", keep it close, make one team win, and all of the other thoughts expressed in this thread.  If you truly believe this is going on week in and week out, why in the world would you continue to watch and be a fan of a team or the sport?  For example, when I was a little kid I used to watch WWE (called I think WWF at the time).  As soon as I figured out it was all acting, I stopped watching and haven't watched since.  Why would you continue to watch or care about the NFL in this case?

As I said earlier, I still follow it, but I don't watch the games anymore.  I make better use of my time, and my blood pressure thanks me.  As to why I still follow, it's in my blood.  Football carries wonderful memories of me and my father.

Edited December 14, 2021 by The Red King
Wonderful, not wonder. XD

[Albany,n.y.]

1 hour ago, CodeMonkey said:

Serious question to all people who think the NFL games are rigged by officials being told to, "push to an outcome", keep it close, make one team win, and all of the other thoughts expressed in this thread.  If you truly believe this is going on week in and week out, why in the world would you continue to watch and be a fan of a team or the sport?  For example, when I was a little kid I used to watch WWE (called I think WWF at the time).  As soon as I figured out it was all acting, I stopped watching and haven't watched since.  Why would you continue to watch or care about the NFL in this case?

Deep down they know they're being delusional, but they just can't help themselves.  

 

My biggest pet peeve is conspiracy theories.  I can't stand the way these people twist facts to support their wild opinions.  It goes well beyond sports.   

[The Red King]

15 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Deep down they know they're being delusional, but they just can't help themselves.  

 

My biggest pet peeve is conspiracy theories.  I can't stand the way these people twist facts to support their wild opinions.  It goes well beyond sports.   

 

Delusional?  Let me repeat...

 

"

Alright, to those defending the refs, a simple yes/no question.  Had the roles been reversed, had Brady and Tampa mounted a huge comeback and the play unfold identically where the Tampa reciever been mugged, can you look me in the eyes and honestly say there is any doubt there would have been a flag.  Go on, I dare you.

 

Now, two refs were looking right at it.  The only change in my scenario were the QB and jerseys.  Why would there be a flag there for them?  Either both refs are biased Brady fans, in which case neither should ever work a Brady game again...or the refs were encouraged to nudge the game for Tampa, which is what we're suggesting."

 

If you're going to call us delusional, I still await your rebuttal.

[Albany,n.y.]

7 minutes ago, The Red King said:

 

Delusional?  Let me repeat...

 

"

Alright, to those defending the refs, a simple yes/no question.  Had the roles been reversed, had Brady and Tampa mounted a huge comeback and the play unfold identically where the Tampa reciever been mugged, can you look me in the eyes and honestly say there is any doubt there would have been a flag.  Go on, I dare you.

 

Now, two refs were looking right at it.  The only change in my scenario were the QB and jerseys.  Why would there be a flag there for them?  Either both refs are biased Brady fans, in which case neither should ever work a Brady game again...or the refs were encouraged to nudge the game for Tampa, which is what we're suggesting."

 

If you're going to call us delusional, I still await your rebuttal.

You are delusional.  A more reasonable explanation is that the refs were too cowardly to make a call in the final minute that they realized could decide the winner.  If the Bills kick a field goal it's still the players deciding the outcome.  You see this all the time, especially in the NHL where a penalty won't be called in the final minutes.  I repeat, you are delusional & have no basis for claiming that they would have thrown the flag for Tampa in that moment.  

 

I'm not awaiting any more of your deliusional replies. 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Albany,n.y.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

15 hours ago, Meatloaf63 said:

Just watched two failed fades to Hopkins, same problem, a fade generally needs to be thrown high for guaranteed success. A few games ago they threw it to Diggs and the first play there was a penalty, he did score on the second throw. It’s a poorly designed play when your receiver has no height advantage. Relying on getting the correct call or throwing the ball before you know if the receiver is going to break from close coverage is not a smart risk to take. It didn’t work, we didn’t get the call. All we needed was a first down, there still was time, it was the wrong call.

Im not sure I agree we were ‘relying’ on a penalty there. We identified a good one on one matchup…diggs and Davis do some back and forth handfighting…diggs wins his matchup easily and we throw him the ball.  I don’t see anything wrong with that.  When you’ve got defenders purposely trying to rip guys down by their jerseys when they know they’re beat to trade a penalty for a TD and it’s not called by the refs that is far beyond the scope of playcalling imo.  Who’s to say we weren’t gonna get held on any route we ran…windows get very tight down there in the red zone…we should know we are terrible down there lol if you’ve got a matchup that good you take it every time 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[The Red King]

3 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

You are delusional.  A more reasonable explanation is that the refs were too cowardly to make a call in the final minute that they realized could decide the winner.  If the Bills kick a field goal it's still the players deciding the outcome.  You see this all the time, especially in the NHL where a penalty won't be called in the final minutes.  I repeat, you are delusional & have no basis for claiming that they would have thrown the flag for Tampa in that moment.  

 

I'm not awaiting any more of your deliusional replies. 

 

Last game Brady lost due to a critical call/no call?  I'll wait.

 

If you don't see it, you're delusional.  I get it, you don't want to think something you love to watch/follow isn't influened by the NFL.  It is.  Bills/Bucs, Lions/Ravens earlier this season.  I could go on...

[ToGoGo]

8 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

You are delusional.  A more reasonable explanation is that the refs were too cowardly to make a call in the final minute that they realized could decide the winner.  If the Bills kick a field goal it's still the players deciding the outcome.  You see this all the time, especially in the NHL where a penalty won't be called in the final minutes.  I repeat, you are delusional & have no basis for claiming that they would have thrown the flag for Tampa in that moment.  

 

I'm not awaiting any more of your deliusional replies. 

 

 

You're a good poster, but you appear to be naive when it comes to certain things.