Is this this team built the right way?

[Nextmanup]

4 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

You mean, like, for a dome?

All of a sudden it's all about "run", "balance" and "dome" with the fanbase.

I swear to God this fanbase has a knowledge base and memory usually about 1 game long.

 

When we were the best offense in the NFL last year, built just as we are now, I don't recall thinking we are "out of balance" or that we needed better running backs.

These old school die hard football guys aren't going to let this "run the ball" crap go away, are they?

 

 

[reddogblitz]

21 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

When we were the best offense in the NFL last year, built just as we are now, I don't recall thinking we are "out of balance" or that we needed better running backs.

These old school die hard football guys aren't going to let this "run the ball" crap go away, are they? 

 

I'm an old school football guy and I think running the football is important.  

 

However, at this point in the season we don't have it.  We're not getting it this year.  Passing is our thing and we're good at it.  Embrace the pass happiness.  It's dance with who brung ya time.

[Zerovoltz]

<Just an observation>

 

Teams have been playing KC with a TON of 2 high saftey.  I know Buffalo hasn't seen as much of that because KC sees it over 80% of the time and the next closest team is like 69% or something.  My point though is that KC and Buffalo don't run that much and teams have really designed their gameplans, at least in the case of the Chiefs...to hold the passing game in check.  

 

Is it possible that defenses in the NFL overall, have now adjusted to passing games like what KC and Buffalo have been using the past couple seasons?  I think in both teams cases, the key is lack of running game from the RB position.  

 

I can't speak to the Bills case because I haven't seen as much of them, but there isn't any respect for the Run from teams playing KC..and I can't help but wonder if the Bills are suffering from that as well...I've seen many point to this as a big problem for Buffalo and I think there is something to it.

[dave mcbride]

8 hours ago, Toyo321 said:

Baboll is the reason why this team is having problems. And our offense has really stepped backwards this year.  Lets get real he has only had one good year as a OC.  Last years Bills 2020 team.   This year speaks for itself, a lot of yards but the offense is terrible with him calling the shots.

 

Daboll began his NFL coaching career with the New England Patriots as a defensive coaching assistant in 2000 under new head coach Bill Belichick before being promoted to wide receivers coach for the Patriots in 2002. 

 

After the 2006 season, he left the Patriots to serve as the Jets' quarterbacks coach. The Patriots won 3 Super Bowls during Daboll's tenure. Dabol had really nothing to do with this coaching of the NE offense.

 

In 2009, Daboll joined Eric Mangini's staff in Cleveland as offensive coordinator. Under Daboll the Browns had the NFL's 32nd ranked offense in 2009  and the 29th ranked offense in 2010.

 

Daboll was named Offensive Coordinator of the Miami Dolphins under Tony Sparano in 2011, with his Dolphins improving from 30th in the league to 20th in overall offense.

On February 6, 2012 the Kansas City Chiefs announced the hiring of Daboll as offensive coordinator, replacing the retired Bill Muir. Daboll had previously worked with Chiefs head coach Romeo Crennel, general manager Scott Pioli and quarterback Matt Cassel in the New England Patriots organization. On January 14, 2013, the New England Patriots announced that he would be brought back in a coaching capacity for the remainder of the Patriots 2012–13 season.

 

He went 2-14 in 2012  in KC.  Offense was ranked 24th.

He went 11-6 in 2013  in KC    Offense was ranked 21st.

 

He has yet to prove to me or anyone IMO,  else that he is a top 10 OC in this league.   His results are worse than average most of the time on the teams where he was OC.

 

He has always been in the bottom 3rd of the league as a OC and that trend seems to be continuing today.

 

Buffalo Offense ranking each year under Daboll so far..

 

2017 29th Daboll was not OC Rick Dennison was.

2018 30th

2019 24th

2020 2nd

2021 9th so far  its only going to get worse.

 

Daboll needs to go.  MCD better kick it into high gear to try and get someone else in the off season.

 

 

 

You should not make this argument about Daboll without at least mentioning that until Allen came along, he had OC’d the worst batch of qbs this century: Brady Quinn (on two different teams!), a rookie Colt McCoy, Seneca Lewis, Derek Anderson (again twice), Chad Henne, a decrepit Jake Delhomme, Matt Moore, the corpse of Matt Cassel, and Nathan Peterman. When Moore is your star of the bunch, you ain’t gonna produce.

Edited December 10, 2021 by dave mcbride

[SoCal Deek]

People, please. All they need to do is fortify the middle of the field on both sides of the ball…period!

 

Guard and Center

DT and MLB

 

Done

[Straight Hucklebuck]

I preach this everytime I can, the Bills need to keep adding weapons to this offense, including WR.

 

When I see threads saying roll with Diggs, Gabe Davis and Beasley next year, I think the opposite. 

 

This team needs to find another WR, we need a better TE than Tommy Sweeney, of course Running Back. 

 

I know we have Offensive Line issues. But we need another playmaker on this offense. We are short players with build and speed. 

[JohnBonhamRocks]

12 hours ago, Bubba Gump said:

It all starts in the trenches on both sides of the ball. Those are the biggest failures so far. Can't run, can't stop the run. When you lose to a team who throws 3 passes all game?? What else do you need to see?

Agreed it starts up front and both our lines are subpar.

 

I think it’s not limited to run and stop the run. Allen gets pressured consistently and it seems to me opposing QBs don’t. 

49 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

People, please. All they need to do is fortify the middle of the field on both sides of the ball…period!

 

Guard and Center

DT and MLB

 

Done

I think we can get away with starting Edmunds if we bring in a DT who is better than Oliver to pair with him. 
 

But yeah, maybe all 3 interior OL positions… yikes!

[Straight Hucklebuck]

12 hours ago, KzooMike said:

In Sum

I don't want to depend on Josh Allen having an MVP season for us to have a chance. He is still growing and I can't imagine what he could look like with some competency out of his RB driven run game. I also don't feel we can depend on our defense to hold up against teams that are good in the run game. It rarely does. Yes, KC won a Super Bowl but they're largely a soft team by my estimation and most certainly an outlier of SB champions. Very few teams that are poor on either side against the rush have ever won a Super Bowl. Most have some degree of balance or at least respect the notion of balance. A lot of the pieces are already in place for this team. I'm curious what we do after the season is over. Does Beane and McDermott stay with Daboll which makes our offensive direction unlikely to change? Do we look at some OL that are not pass centered and go after some mass in the middle? This is a potential Super Bowl team. The talent level is very high, but we are certainly capable of screwing that up if the vision isn't correct.

 

I would like to see more balanced football.   

The Bills have been blown out in one game this season. 

 

Otherwise, this offense has faltered with chances to win against the Steelers, Titans, Jags and Patriots. 

 

 

 

Reasons:

 

1. A good chunk is on the offensive line. Our Guards are a hot pile, and when Brown isn't on the field, we struggle. 

 

 

2. I think Beasley and Sanders have slowed, yet they're always on the field. 

 

 

3. Player Rotations - The Bills benching McKenzie, and playing Gabe Davis 33% of the time is hurting their ability to score. Gabe Davis is averaging 18 yards per catch this season, Beasley is 8.6 ypc. It's 2021, and for some reason, this Coaching Staff believes Zack Moss gives you the best chance in the Red Zone. They claim they watch the film. So I'm not sure what they see when they watch him struggle for 0, 1, 2 yards, yet keep putting him back in there.  

 

 

4. Offensive Philosophy - Three weeks ago against the Jets it looked like the 2020 Bills again. Jet sweeps, pre-snap motion, sweeps with Breida, designed runs from Allen, deep shots, Gabe Davis on the field. A week later, we're right back to static offense, Diggs on the far outside and forgotten about, Beasley and Sanders playing 70% and 80% of the snaps instead of rotating in. Why aren't these elements baked into the game plan every week? McKenzie is incredibly productive with what little work he gets, the same goes for Davis. But for this Staff, we're always out there trying to prove that we can win without those elements. 

 

Yet, we're reverent to these veterans always being on the field, or some mind numbing effort on "toughness" with Tommy Sweeney having to be on the field. 

 

 

5. I think McDermott taking more reigns on the offense is a bad thing. I think he's conservative at his core, and is clashing with Daboll. And as far as he goes, with Spencer Brown at RT, the Bills need to go back to 4-wide and 5-wide. That's something we didn't have against the Steelers. Forget about Devin Singletary, he sucks, forget Zack Moss, he sucks, and start getting McKenzie, Davis, Breida screens and Josh Allen runs back into this offense.  

 

 

[Toyo321]

8 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

All of a sudden it's all about "run", "balance" and "dome" with the fanbase.

I swear to God this fanbase has a knowledge base and memory usually about 1 game long.

 

When we were the best offense in the NFL last year, built just as we are now, I don't recall thinking we are "out of balance" or that we needed better running backs.

These old school die hard football guys aren't going to let this "run the ball" crap go away, are they?

 

 

We were not the best offense in the league last year, KC was.  We we ranked 2 in the regular season and we were much worse in the playoffs.

Our offense was exposed even last year in the playoffs. 

A mirage is just that.  You think something is real when it actually isn't.   Our offense is just a mirage.....

 

 

 

[Toyo321]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

You should not make this argument about Daboll without at least mentioning that until Allen came along, he had OC’d the worst batch of qbs this century: Brady Quinn (on two different teams!), a rookie Colt McCoy, Seneca Lewis, Derek Anderson (again twice), Chad Henne, a decrepit Jake Delhomme, Matt Moore, the corpse of Matt Cassel, and Nathan Peterman. When Moore is your star of the bunch, you ain’t gonna produce.

When he was at KC he had Matt Cassel and Alex Smith at QB. He still could not get the offenses on those teams going.  You have to start looking at what has he done for your lately.  If it were not for Josh Allen playing out of his mind last year and this year.  This offense would be in the middle of the league again.  You have to start putting the blame where it needs to go.  Daboll is not a good OC.   His players have been struggling to execute the poor play calling this year and even going back to last year in the playoffs.  Daboll is not the answer.

[LABILLBACKER]

14 hours ago, Bubba Gump said:

It all starts in the trenches on both sides of the ball. Those are the biggest failures so far. Can't run, can't stop the run. When you lose to a team who throws 3 passes all game?? What else do you need to see?

100%

This has to be the fix. 

No run game

No run stop

We're not winning any SB's with that combo.

[dave mcbride]

3 minutes ago, Toyo321 said:

When he was at KC he had Matt Cassel and Alex Smith at QB. He still could not get the offenses on those teams going.  You have to start looking at what has he done for your lately.  If it were not for Josh Allen playing out of his mind last year and this year.  This offense would be in the middle of the league again.  You have to start putting the blame where it needs to go.  Daboll is not a good OC.   His players have been struggling to execute the poor play calling this year and even going back to last year in the playoffs.  Daboll is not the answer.

Cassel was HORRIBLE the season before Daboll arrived in KC, and Smith was NOT the other QB the year Daboll was there.  Brady Quinn was, and he started 8 games. Smith arrived after Daboll left. Cassel was never any good and whatever success he had was a result of him playing on a couple of very talented units (including a Pats team coming off a 16-0 season) that masked how weak he was. The year KC had a winning record with him (2010; he was terrible in 2009), Jamaal Charles rushed for an ungodly 6.4 ypc and they had the best pass defense in the league, holding opponents to a 78.1 rating. When they faced a good opponent in the playoffs (the Ravens) that year, they were utterly steamrolled, generating only 53 yards(!) of passing offense. He was statue with an arm that was decidedly less than average. I watched that guy for years, and the reason he kept getting gigs was because he was able to run on the fumes of that Pats 2008 season. If Brady hadn't been hurt that year, they would have gone 14-2.   

[LABILLBACKER]

10 hours ago, Bferra13 said:

They miss out on the playoffs or lose in the first round I think he will be let go. Should have took his opportunity last year and get paid like his comparibable contemporaries... the Freddie kitchens and Matt nagys if the world. That's about what he is worth.  Pretty sure no one will wat him anymore as as a hc so we are stuck with this guy or be forced to fire him. 

No one wanted him last year as a HC.  Bobby Johnson should've been fired long ago. Our lineman literally have no clue how to block. Daboll has struggled more this season with the run game and cover2.  I totally agree he's gone if we miss the playoffs. I've never been a huge BD fan as Josh's freak athleticism masks so much of this offense's problems. 

[JaCrispy]

No...we overpay mediocre FA’s and miss on OL and DL draft prospects constantly...

[Mat68]

Alright.  Last year Buffalo made the AFC championship game.  Mcdermott and his defense made the playoffs 3 out of 4 years.  This past offseason with the shrink of cap space I think the only option was to bring our FA back.  Williams was an All pro caliber RT.  Milano was suppose to cost too much to bring back.

 

Buffalo was a popular Superbowl pick.  Also, there record was projected to be 11 to 12 wins.  That all is still in play.  Calling into question the roster construction at 7-5, 1 game out of first place in the conference is laughable to me.  
 

Bills Mafia needs to take a deep breathe, take a shot, take a hit whatever.  Still in the thick of it.  Yes they need to play better as a whole.  Im not gonna burry em until they are dead.  

[SCBills]

We came into the year with a strong roster.
 

As others have pointed out, we’re built to score a lot and play with the lead.  
 

That hasn’t been happening against anyone (KC aside) that is good.  
 

Why?

 

Regression of the OL and injuries.   We all begged the FO to address IOL, but I don’t think anyone expected it to be this bad when they didn’t.  Dawkins post-covid has been awful, Morse is about the same which isn’t ideal when our guard play has been atrocious.  Feliciano, Boettger, Ford, Williams… y’all are embarrassing.  Even with the addition of Brown - who on paper makes this OL more talented - the OL has been a mess.    Coaching, motivation, scheme… what’s the problem? I don’t know, but it lies in at least one of those groups.  
 

Running Backs are JAG’s, but Dalvin Cook behind this line would probably be more like  Najee Harris in Pittsburgh than Dalvin Cook in Minnesota. 
 

This defense is so overrated.  It’s time to trim the fat this off-season.  They dominate bad teams and struggle against power run teams.   They are built to stop finesse passing teams and, somehow, Baltimore… but there are too many good power run teams for us to invest so much in a one dimensional finesse defense.  
 

There is still time to turn it around, but due to the poor roster development and play we’ve witnessed around him so far, it’s going to require Josh Allen becoming the run away MVP over the final stretch of the season. 
 

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by SCBills

[SirAndrew]

I’m putting a lot of this on coaching. Most NFL rosters have holes. Very few teams, if any, have no weaknesses. Our weaknesses are mostly in the trenches. Obviously that’s a terrible place to be weak, but we have an elite QB. There’s no way we aren’t better than 7-5 with our soft schedule. The Jags loss, and blowout home loss to the Colts were inexcusable. This team has some major issues, but the Colts shouldn’t be 45-13 better than us, and the Jags shouldn’t beat us 9-6. I don’t know how I can’t place that on coaching. We’re the better team, even with our issues. It’s a fair assumption that we aren’t winning titles struggling in the trenches. However, I can’t solely blame the composition of the roster for the ugly losses this season.

McD is correct, we aren’t winning a title with no run game, but right now Josh gives us the best chance to win. Singletary and Moss one yard runs are a waste. We have no run game, and it’s time to be honest about this. The run game isn’t going to develop at this point in the season. This roster was composed in the manner that suited Beane and McDermott, it’s time for them to play to its strengths. Maybe those strengths won’t bring home the ultimate goal, but it’s better than trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Fix the roster during the off-season. Give Allen the keys to the offense, and give up trying what doesn’t work.

[Toyo321]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Cassel was HORRIBLE the season before Daboll arrived in KC, and Smith was NOT the other QB the year Daboll was there.  Brady Quinn was, and he started 8 games. Smith arrived after Daboll left. Cassel was never any good and whatever success he had was a result of him playing on a couple of very talented units (including a Pats team coming off a 16-0 season) that masked how weak he was. The year KC had a winning record with him (2010; he was terrible in 2009), Jamaal Charles rushed for an ungodly 6.4 ypc and they had the best pass defense in the league, holding opponents to a 78.1 rating. When they faced a good opponent in the playoffs (the Ravens) that year, they were utterly steamrolled, generating only 53 yards(!) of passing offense. He was statue with an arm that was decidedly less than average. I watched that guy for years, and the reason he kept getting gigs was because he was able to run on the fumes of that Pats 2008 season. If Brady hadn't been hurt that year, they would have gone 14-2.   

It does not matter what happened with other teams 8 years ago.  Really it doesn't.  These are just really stats and numbers.

 

We are the only NFL team this year that failed to score a single touchdown against Jacksonville !!!!

 

With a 250 Million $ QB, with talent all over the place and we can't get a single TD against that team.

 

Like I said in other posts, last weeks loss against NE was an embarrassment, Jacksonville, Indy and even the Titans game were all poorly scripted game planning by our OC.  He cant make changes when they need to be done during a game or at halftime, runs the same plays week in and week out that do not produce.

 

Because of this guy not being able to utilize the talent on this Bills roster, we are not going to make the playoffs this year.

 

We will lose 4 out of 5 of our remaining games.  Then we can come back to this and then see if you think Daboll is quality OC.

 

He is not.

Edited December 10, 2021 by Toyo321

[SirAndrew]

1 minute ago, Toyo321 said:

It does not matter what happened with other teams 8 years ago.  Really it doesn't.  These are just really stats and numbers.

 

We are the only NFL team this year that failed to score a single touchdown against Jacksonville !!!!

 

With a 250 Million $ QB, with talent all over the place and we can't score 7 points against that team.

 

Like I said in other posts, last weeks loss against NE was a embarrassment, Jacksonville, Indy and even the Titans game were all poorly scripted game planning by our

 

OC.  He cant make changes when they need to be done during a game or at halftime, runs the same plays week in and week out that do not produce.

 

Because of this guy not being able to utilize the talent on this Bills roster.  We are not going to make the playoffs this year.

 

We will lose to 4 out of 5 of our last five games.  Then we can come back to this and then I see if you think Daboll is quality OC.

 

He is not.

Agree, the offense has been really stale this season. The second half of the season feels like we don’t throw to anyone other than Diggs and Knox. Sanders might just be wearing down, but Davis and Beasley don’t seem to be part of the game plan. Much of last seasons success was a result of distributing the ball to different players. That’s how good NFL teams play in this era.