Someone please explain me what Buffalo's defense was doing on the TD Run????

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, mattynh said:

It looked like they made a giant lane the length of the field did Harris to run through.  He took the cheese 

Again how does it happen when they are not passing or even showing any indication that they will attempt any pass play of significance.  

 

I understand when there is a spread, there are holes that could be created, but here there was going to be nothing more then a run or a throw to a back out of the backfield at worst. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I'm just realizing that the Bills came out in nickle defense on the two point try. Wow were they thoroughly out coached.

[Billsfan1972]

35 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I'm just realizing that the Bills came out in nickle defense on the two point try. Wow were they thoroughly out coached.

Well at least then the Pats had receivers lined up outside.  Another key play.  Stop that and Bills are ahead 13-12 at the end (and also the prior possession may have been differently called in the redzone). 

[RochesterLifer]

Oh good, another outrage thread. Could we have some more, please?

[Billsfan1972]

12 minutes ago, RochesterLifer said:

Oh good, another outrage thread. Could we have some more, please?

Yep I was outraged, but more I was looking as I am not an expert on X&O's to try and understand what happened there as it seemed to me it was 8 Pats on the line vs. 4 bills on a 3rd and 5 and looked like a terrible defensive scheme, especially since no way Jones could have thrown a 5 yard pass against that wind.

 

It's similar to any 3rd & 3 when the DB is playing 10 yards off a receiver and it is a simple pass for a first down.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 hours ago, 34-78-83 said:

That mostly aligns with the cover 1 film breakdown of the play although they agreed that while Milano and Hyde MAJORLY over-committed, Edmunds could have slow played it a tad more as well. And AJ was partially responsible as well as mentioned...

 

Could you provide a link to the Cover 1 film breakdown?

 

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I'm just realizing that the Bills came out in nickle defense on the two point try. Wow were they thoroughly out coached.

 

Look, you have to understand that the choice was:

-Taron Johnson in nickle

-Tyrel Dodson, in base

 

Johnson overall is arguably a better player than Dodson, and Dodson had just had a communication breakdown that contributed to the long run (see link above from Dan Orlovsky)

 

If it was a choice between Johnson and Klein, I would go with you that Klein should have been out there, but Klein had his ass on the Covid list.

And IMO we missed him.

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

11 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Could you provide a link to the Cover 1 film breakdown?

 

 

Look, you have to understand that the choice was:

-Taron Johnson in nickle

-Tyrel Dodson, in base

 

Johnson overall is arguably a better player than Dodson, and Dodson had just had a communication breakdown that contributed to the long run (see link above from Dan Orlovsky)

 

If it was a choice between Johnson and Klein, I would go with you that Klein should have been out there, but Klein had his ass on the Covid list.

And IMO we missed him.

 

Don't forget Epenesa. If I see Epenesa on the field I feel like the Bills are expecting a pass.

[buffalostu2]

16 hours ago, Buffaloman said:

Trumaine Edmunds over ran his gap as he very often does, leaving a beautiful lane to run through

 

Hyde as well. Simple ....... they overpursued

[34-78-83]

16 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Could you provide a link to the Cover 1 film breakdown?

 

also check out the analysis on the run D as they discuss in this stream - (I think its not too far into the show)

 

 

[HoofHearted]

16 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Which was 3 plays after the terrible fumble by Breida (again a terrible call on first down), when the Bills were marching with the wind.

 

Jones had not attempted a pass & it is 3rd & 5 against the wind (Bob Seger anyone?).  

 

Peyton Manning hit the nail on the head.....  No receivers spread out and 8 Patriots on the line vs. 4 Bills and LB's & DB's looking ready for a pass downfield.

 

Sorry I'm not about X&O's, but what were the Bills thinking NE was going to do?

 

 

Bad fits all around. Wallace can't get widened he needs to replace straight downhill when he see's the crack by the WR. Epenesa can't run himself upfield and instead fight pressure with pressure so he doesn't get washed. Oliver, Phillips, and Rousseau all get reached which allows the guards to work directly up to Termaine and Milano untouched. Dotson needs to work more downhill with his attack steps and meet the FB at the LoS tight off of the WRs butt and actually leverage him. Tremaine and Milano can't get kicked when defeating their blocks (that cut back right into where Milano should be. Ultimately it comes down to Hyde over-running the play though. He's the last line of defense in single high coverages. A perfect storm of nearly everyone not executing their responsibility.

Edited December 9, 2021 by HoofHearted

[HoofHearted]

On 12/8/2021 at 8:19 PM, ControllerOfPlanetX said:

 

If Edmunds stays in the MIDDLE...as in MLB...this play doesn’t happen....

If he stays in the Middle then he gets reached by the guard who climbs to the second level untouched and we're not gapped out.

On 12/8/2021 at 11:41 PM, Kelly's Heroes said:

Watched this play a few times, it appears Edmunds is way out of position. He almost looks like he is not even looking at the play and reading it but rather running to a spot. Unfortunately, that spot was not the final destination, he totally was out of position. The Guard got a good block on him and steered him away to the wrong destination as well. Almost appears it was a designed option run. For the Bills Harris read it right. 

 

The kid has all the tools but too many people let him pass on his mistakes. The press has you believe he is a superstar. He may never reach his potential , if he is reading his press clippings. He frequently over pursues on both run and pass plays.  Now, maybe he expected Hyde to be the safety valve on the play and seal it up, that did not happen  because like Edmunds he over ran the play too.  Some other things on the play I noticed was again we see Oliver was unable to get off his block fast enough to provide backside support.  Last statement, the LB captain needs to call a time out on the play to get out of the nickle defense. Nickle may be the right call but not in the conditions of the game Monday night.  Kudos to Belicheck he out coached McD on this round. 

 

We were in Base not Nickel.

Edited December 13, 2021 by HoofHearted

[HoofHearted]

This is what the fits should have looked like.

[GoBills808]

16 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

This is what the fits should have looked like.

This front doesn’t work w Oliver’s technique here

[HoofHearted]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

This front doesn’t work w Oliver’s technique here

What technique? He got reached.

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

What technique? He got reached.

I guess this is a good example of how people can see the same play differently

 

Oliver is lined up at the 1tech but doesn’t command a double…so he imo needs to stack his man at the LOS and make them pay for only blocking him 1v1. Instead he fires off downhill…takes himself out of the play

 

[HoofHearted]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I guess this is a good example of how people can see the same play differently

 

Oliver is lined up at the 1tech but doesn’t command a double…so he imo needs to stack his man at the LOS and make them pay for only blocking him 1v1. Instead he fires off downhill…takes himself out of the play

 

Oliver is a tilted 1 tech and is responsible for the weakside A gap. He CAN NOT under any circumstances "stack" and allow himself to get reached. He wasn't the only one on the line that this happened to by the way. See my previous post breaking down all the failures.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, HoofHearted said:

Oliver is a tilted 1 tech and is responsible for the weakside A gap. He CAN NOT under any circumstances "stack" and allow himself to get reached. He wasn't the only one on the line that this happened to by the way. See my previous post breaking down all the failures.

I read it. It was very similar to what I posted yesterday on this play👍

[Dopey]

17 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Which was 3 plays after the terrible fumble by Breida (again a terrible call on first down), when the Bills were marching with the wind.

 

Jones had not attempted a pass & it is 3rd & 5 against the wind (Bob Seger anyone?).  

 

Peyton Manning hit the nail on the head.....  No receivers spread out and 8 Patriots on the line vs. 4 Bills and LB's & DB's looking ready for a pass downfield.

 

Sorry I'm not about X&O's, but what were the Bills thinking NE was going to do?

 

 

If you watch the play again, as the ball is snapped, we have 10 guys within 3 yds of the LOS. 7 inside the tackles and 3 dbs just outside the tackles, on either side. That doesn't look like they're playing the pass to me. Milano is to Edmunds' left. Edmunds gets blocked, but his presence causes the RB to cut back. Again Milano is on Edmunds' left side at the snap. How the hell does he end up behind Edmunds and further outside the LT for NE?!? Seems like his gap responsibility, since the running play went left. Above all of that was the safety (Hyde?) gets caught over pursuing and is embarrassed.  It was also well blocked. Some on this board have a hard time acknowledging the other team out there is really good. They blocked the hell out of that play. 

IMO, that's not on coach. Milano and Hyde were the reason for the long TD run. 

We didn't lose the game on that play. It's natural to over analyze 1 play, when that was really the only big gain by NE. A lot of guessing on this topic, including me. But that was not playing the pass IMO. Even if the Mannings think so. We didn't make the plays when presented on offense. Thing is, we only needed 1 more play from the offense. They literally and figuratively dropped the ball.

We didn't get our ass kicked, we held them to 1 TD and 2 FGs. We had more scoring opportunities than NE, but again too many drops on our end. Plus Brieda fumbles at NE's 30 yd line.

Reading comments on this board makes it seem we got smoked. Good game that came down to the end. Didn't have to come down to the end, but alas, our offensive players (not coaching) let the team down.

Sorry for the long post. Also, JMO.

Edited December 9, 2021 by Dopey
I can't add

[HappyDays]

Here's Chris Simms breaking it down:

 

https://youtu.be/1_WeXrJxURM&t=1h23m29s

 

His opinion is that Milano didn’t stay disciplined, overplayed it, and left a wide open cutback lane.

[HoofHearted]

7 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Here's Chris Simms breaking it down:

 

https://youtu.be/1_WeXrJxURM&t=1h23m29s

 

His opinion is that Milano didn’t stay disciplined, overplayed it, and left a wide open cutback lane.

Oof that’s a bad breakdown. They 100% were not slanting the front.