What makes a good offense, run first/pass first/balance?

[Matt_In_NH]

I have been listening to a lot of the local media and reading content on this forum.  There seems to be a lot of people who think the Bills should just pass the ball as much as possible....even in last nights game, pass pass pass.    I have listened and thought about it, I do understand where that is coming from but I have a different opinion....I think to be the best offense you should have the goal to be top tier at running and top tier at passing.  In any one game the mix can vary but you should have both tools in your toolbox.   Why?  Opponent, conditions, game flow may dictate different approaches.  I believe you can be mostly pass first but there are times you will have to be run first and you should/need to be able to do that.

 

For those that say the Bills are good at passing so that is all they should do, go back and watch the Steelers game, the Jags game and you will see a pass first team that is not able to be successful because the defense is playing you as a pass first team.  Those are situations it would have been nice to be able to pound it some and get them out of their pass defense gameplan.  NFL is move/counter move.   Against many opponents you may be able to do your bread and butter but what good is it if you cannot adjust when you play a team that is making that hard on you?

 

Having said all that, its hard to see this roster being able to run first much at all so we appear to be stuck with what we have for the rest of the year and they should game plan knowing what they can and cannot do.  But I believe a reasonable diet of runs needs to still be part of it.    Defenses literally try and make a team one dimensional by design, dont just give that to them. 

 

My 2 cents....

[Chaos]

Tom Brady's team wins with a very unblanced attack for decades.  Derrick Henry's team wins with an unbalanced attack.  Steelers killer bee glory years had a very balanced attack.   Winning and losing is not about over all scheme.  Its about being good at what you are trying to do.  I have never seen a worse team at establishing any sort of rhythm on offense.  This is because we are poorly coached in blocking schemes, have mostly poor play design and absurdly random play calling.  

[The Frankish Reich]

19 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Tom Brady's team wins with a very unblanced attack for decades.

Very true. But when that stopped working for them in 2018, all of a sudden the Pats turned on a dime to be a run-first team. I'd say the key isn't to be run heavy, or pass heavy, or balanced. The key is to be able (having the personnel and the concept) to change strategies when the opposing defense decides they're going to take a particular element away from you. It's too late to be able to get the personnel to do that this year, but I guarantee you that Beane will be working on that in the offseason. He's no dummy, but sometimes it takes an obvious fail to learn that lesson the hard way.

[Big Blitz]

Yep.  Like Tampa

 

 

[BillMafia716ix]

Depends on what the defense is giving you. They have to be able to adjust in game. Like you said vs. Steelers. Pittsburgh was T’ing off Josh Allen with the 4 man rush and we still continued to try to throw the ball. We didn’t attempt to run the ball at all. 

Daboll is very cocky in his game day apporach

[The Frankish Reich]

5 minutes ago, BillMafia716ix said:

Depends on what the defense is giving you. They have to be able to adjust in game. Like you said vs. Steelers. Pittsburgh was T’ing off Josh Allen with the 4 man rush and we still continued to try to throw the ball. We didn’t attempt to run the ball at all. 

Daboll is very cocky in his game day apporach

I just don't think he has the personnel to do anything different. Whether that's partly on him (the players he wants on offense are those that make the roster) I don't know. But there's really no NFL block-first TE on the roster, only a special teams/TE guy as a FB (and he was hurt), and not even a bigger RB. And the fast RB drops the ball ...

[LABILLBACKER]

45 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Tom Brady's team wins with a very unblanced attack for decades.  Derrick Henry's team wins with an unbalanced attack.  Steelers killer bee glory years had a very balanced attack.   Winning and losing is not about over all scheme.  Its about being good at what you are trying to do.  I have never seen a worse team at establishing any sort of rhythm on offense.  This is because we are poorly coached in blocking schemes, have mostly poor play design and absurdly random play calling.  

Good points. It does help to have some semblance of a run attack to keep teams honest. If a batter knows every pitch is a fastball his production explodes. I know that seems counterintuitive after watching Leslie girl have no answer to a run he knows is coming. We need better trenches. That goes for our 90's team too. We can still pass 60-70% of the time. And if the damn incessant winds of Orchard park would ever simmer down,  that would help too. I've said my peace on a dome.

[All_Pro_Bills]

Having a great passing offense and as a result an unbalanced offense is not a problem until you face a defense that stops your primary offensive weapons.  At that point unless you have some proficiency at running the ball you're in trouble.  That's what happens to the Bills.  Maybe Daboll and the coaching staff don't want to focus on running the ball but when you need to you better be able at least show average ability to move the ball on the ground or you're in trouble.  That's how it is with the Bills.  Not that they don't want to run, that they can't and they're just not good at it.  

[Matt_In_NH]

56 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Tom Brady's team wins with a very unblanced attack for decades.  Derrick Henry's team wins with an unbalanced attack.  Steelers killer bee glory years had a very balanced attack.   Winning and losing is not about over all scheme.  Its about being good at what you are trying to do.  I have never seen a worse team at establishing any sort of rhythm on offense.  This is because we are poorly coached in blocking schemes, have mostly poor play design and absurdly random play calling.  

 

Agree, be good at what you are trying to do.  But I guess I am just saying what you are trying to do cannot be one thing all the time.   I tend to agree with you about coaching on the OL, I believe these guys are better than they appear to be.   

 

Not sure what your definition of balanced is but I bet the Titans are quite balanced in terms of run pass but at the end of the day what have they accomplished the Bills have not?   Brady and his teams were unbalanced, ok I can agree with that.  But you can bet your ass they ran the ball when the needed or when they felt the gameplan said that was the best approach.  They more than any team are a chameleon and have been for a long time.   Many example when with Brady they came out and just smash mouthed it.   That is particularly true in their super bowl winning years.  

39 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

Yep.  Like Tampa

 

 

 

448 years in the playoffs last year........

[Haslett_Stomp]

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

Tom Brady's team wins with a very unblanced attack for decades.  Derrick Henry's team wins with an unbalanced attack.  Steelers killer bee glory years had a very balanced attack.   Winning and losing is not about over all scheme.  Its about being good at what you are trying to do.  I have never seen a worse team at establishing any sort of rhythm on offense.  This is because we are poorly coached in blocking schemes, have mostly poor play design and absurdly random play calling.  

 

I don't understand why they don't go to a no-huddle offense on occasion.  Someone mentioned this in another thread, and I agree, that it would help the offense establish a rhythm and also keep the opposing defenses off balance.

[Nextmanup]

Being a pass first team should never be some type of penalty.

 

It doesn't matter if a given defense knows that's what you'll do, if your execution is up to snuff.

 

We have struggled all year, against opponents of all skill types, when Josh has trouble finding receivers to the throw ball to, and takes too much time in the pocket.

 

A large part of that is major breakdown in pass protection along the offensive line, creating more of a distraction than Josh can handle.

 

When our offensive line can handle an opposing defensive front 7, Josh almost always has a great day and we win by 30 or whatever...even though those defense knew what was coming.

 

Execution is what is always important, and Josh has to find people quickly and throw the ball accurately to them.

 

The entire game comes down to that, over and over and over again .

 

 

4 minutes ago, Haslett_Stomp said:

 

I don't understand why they don't go to a no-huddle offense on occasion.  Someone mentioned this in another thread, and I agree, that it would help the offense establish a rhythm and also keep the opposing defenses off balance.

As I have said elsewhere, it might be b/c our fat and flabby OL can't handle the pace.  Is their cardio work up to snuff?

 

 

[TAinLack.]

This would help.  No disrespect to Joe Fergason but insert Josh Allen and we're good, real good!

 

Edited December 8, 2021 by TAinLA
Spelling

[Big Turk]

The ability to run the ball if you have a light box makes you balanced the same way passing the ball well when they stack the box does. Add in your QB being able to run the ball and escape the pocket and that makes you damn near unstoppable, especially if he can hit all the throws from anywhere on the field like Allen can.

 

Has nothing to do with running 50% of the time and passing 50% of the time. That's simply wasting plays.

 

It has to do with being able to do both things well when you have the advantage over the defense to do it via what they are trying to take away.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Big Turk