MYTH Busted: "The Defense couldn't stop the Run"

[Alphadawg7]

6 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

That's hardly apples to apples 222 yards rushing is more like 400 yards passing.

No it does not what so ever.  That is not even remotely true, I mean come one dude, this isn't fantasy football.  1 yard equals 1 yard.  1 point equals 1 point.

 

If we gave up 222 yards while also giving up 200+ yards passing, then those 222 yards rushing would be a problem because thats over 400 yards of offense.  But when you hold an offense to less than 240 yards of offense, guess what...thats pretty good outing for your defense that likely means they didnt give up a lot of points, which they didnt. 

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, JohnBonhamRocks said:

Thing is it’s not just whether or not they score. More time of possession for them. Better field position for them. Less opportunities for Allen & Co. 

 

Again, even less excusable given the obvious nature of NE*’s offensive game-plan. 

 

They didnt have better field position all night. We averaged starting at the 40+, they averaged around the 20.

 

We have PLENTY of opportunities and possessions to tie or take the lead and came up with NOTHING. That's on the Offense. The D did enough to win.

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

And yet only 1 TD and a couple of FGs.

 

If someone asked you before the season, "Would you accept limiting the Jags to 9 points, and the Pats to 14 points?" wouldn't you take that and our chances to win those games?

Yes, which is why my other post started by saying most of my gripes are with the offense. 
 

Just don’t think the defense had a great game either. Solid point total for a normal game. But not for a game where NE* almost exclusively ran and showed no sign of a passing threat. 

[DrDawkinstein]

9 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

No it does not what so ever.  That is not even remotely true, I mean come one dude, this isn't fantasy football.  1 yard equals 1 yard.  1 point equals 1 point.

 

If we gave up 222 yards while also giving up 200+ yards passing, then those 222 yards rushing would be a problem because thats over 400 yards of offense.  But when you hold an offense to less than 240 yards of offense, guess what...thats pretty good outing for your defense that likely means they didnt give up a lot of points, which they didnt. 

 

People are obviously stuck in their feelings about this, no matter how irrational they are. Oh well. If what I laid out in the OP cant open their eyes a little, nothing will.

 

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by DrDawkinstein

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

They didnt have better field position all night. We averaged starting at the 40+, they averaged around the 20.

 

We have PLENTY of opportunities and possessions to tie or take the lead and came up with NOTHING. That's on the Offense. The D did enough to win.

Agreed it’s more on the offense and D did enough to win. Just think given the nature of the game with no passing threat they could have done better. 
 

It’s tough to argue our defense had a good game against the run and that’s all NE* did.

[FireChans]

4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

And yet only 1 TD and a couple of FGs.

 

If someone asked you before the season, "Would you accept limiting the Jags to 9 points, and the Pats to 14 points?" wouldn't you take that and our chances to win those games?

This is a total strawman. No one said the offense was less to blame. What most people have said is the Pats said, “here’s what we are going to do all night, try to stop us” and still ran it down our throat for 4.8 YPC.

 

No one who knows football is pointing at last night as a great defensive performance. Nobody. Your premise is flawed.

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Patriots had 9 real possessions all game (not counting the last to kill the clock).

 

They punted 6 out of 9 possessions.

 

4 of those punts were 3 and outs. The other 2 possessions were 4 plays and 5 plays. The only long drive they had resulted in a mere Field Goal.

 

What more could the Defense have done?

 

Punt (3 plays)

Punt (3 plays)

TD (3 plays)

FG (9 plays)

Punt (3 plays)

Punt (4 plays)

Punt (5 plays)

FG (14 plays)

Punt (3 plays)

Careful sir....you are correct but ppl out for blood this week

[Dablitzkrieg]

Josh missed Diggs twice and a wide open Beasley on 4th.  Moss has no vision and missed a wide open gap for a TD.  Knox turned into Knox last night.   It was the offense,  not the defense

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

This is a total strawman. No one said the offense was less to blame. What most people have said is the Pats said, “here’s what we are going to do all night, try to stop us” and still ran it down our throat for 4.8 YPC.

 

No one who knows football is pointing at last night as a great defensive performance. Nobody. Your premise is flawed.

 

Bro you made up a strawman to accuse me of strawmanning. Way to inception that.

 

Speaking strictly from a Defensive performance standpoint, 9 points and 14 points are good/great performances in the NFL. Everyone who knows football knows that.

[John from Riverside]

Just now, Dablitzkrieg said:

Josh missed Diggs twice and a wide open Beasley on 4th.  Moss has no vision and missed a wide open gap for a TD.  Knox turned into Knox last night.   It was the offense,  not the defense

He also hit Diggs right in the hands with a bomb...which was dropped

[MasterStrategist]

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

People are obviously stuck in their feelings about this, no matter who irrational they are. Oh well. If what I laid out in the OP can open their eyes a little, nothing is.

Agree with all your comments btw, and great topic starter.

 

If there's one infuriating thing about the defensive effort, it was lack of fundamentals/poor tackling.  Way too many missed "gaps", overpursuit and missed tackles that extended a couple drives.  Bottom line, they performed solid and well enough to give the Off a chance to win.  

 

I'm not an Edmunds hater, but he got lost way more than usual last night.  Poor angles, not disengaging from blocks.  Our DTs finally learned how to play against a "trap" block...like something you're taught in HS. And similar with our def ends against toss sweeps, ie:pin and pull concepts.  Fundamentals is what NE executed throughout the night, while simplistic, it was something we struggled with at times.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

The Pats and BB are not unhappy with their run game performance, they are thrilled. Their run game was awesome.  And, every football analyst anywhere today has said as much.

 

Some of you guys go ahead and be happy with performance, I'm not and that's not bad analysis.

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Bro you made up a strawman to accuse me of strawmanning. Way to inception that.

 

Speaking strictly from a Defensive performance standpoint, 9 points and 14 points are good/great performances in the NFL. Everyone who knows football knows that.

strictly speaking, allowing 14 points and 4.8 YPC on 44 rushes when a team cannot throw the football is not a great performance in the NFL. 
 

The Pats aren’t mad about their offense today. They’re ecstatic. You’re just wrong.

Edited December 7, 2021 by FireChans

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, MasterStrategist said:

Agree with all your comments btw, and great topic starter.

 

If there's one infuriating thing about the defensive effort, it was lack of fundamentals/poor tackling.  Way too many missed "gaps", overpursuit and missed tackles that extended a couple drives.  Bottom line, they performed solid and well enough to give the Off a chance to win.  

 

I'm not an Edmunds hater, but he got lost way more than usual last night.  Poor angles, not disengaging from blocks.  Our DTs finally learned how to play against a "trap" block...like something you're taught in HS. And similar with our def ends against toss sweeps, ie:pin and pull concepts.  Fundamentals is what NE executed throughout the night, while simplistic, it was something we struggled with at times.

 

I will absolutely agree with this. Our tackling was atrocious, and has been all year. Plenty of runs should have been stopped for shorter gains or even losses. Edmunds had a horrible night.

[quinnearlysghost88]

Our defense is built for shootouts and our offense is built for shutouts. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

No way it makes it to Gabe... If it's not batted down, IMO balls falls at Davis' feet.  Not enough needed mustard on it to reach him.

 

... And you know why it wouldn't have got to him? 🤫...

 

Josh was pressured, but the pass was long gone early. Had nothing to do with. 

 

 

[Rock'em Sock'em]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

So 3-and-outs on half the possessions is embarrassing. Got it.

Giving up 5YPC when you are 95% sure they are going to run is embarrassing. The defense did play well on over 50% of the snaps - and they had lots of moments.  But just about any college QB and many good HS level QBs could have executed 50 handoffs and led the PATs to 14 points and victory against the Bills last night.  That's what is embarrassing (for them - not me or you).

 

It's a team game.  Red Zone offense, a missed short FG, dropped passes, and horrid fumble on a handoff are why they didn't score more.  Clock management in the 4th Q contributed too.  Lots of areas to improve.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Rock'em Sock'em

[BeastMaster]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Bro you made up a strawman to accuse me of strawmanning. Way to inception that.

 

Speaking strictly from a Defensive performance standpoint, 9 points and 14 points are good/great performances in the NFL. Everyone who knows football knows that.

Except that this was not the standard NFL game.

 

You're starting from a flawed premise, which is leading you to a faulty conclusion.

 

The Pats did what they set out to do, and the defense didn't stop them from doing it. 

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

strictly speaking, allowing 14 points and 4.8 YPC on 44 rushes when a team cannot throw the football is not a great performance in the NFL. 
 

The Pats aren’t mad about their offense today. They’re ecstatic. You’re just wrong.

 

14 points and 240 total yards is a good D performance. I am right.

 

Pats are happy because they won. That is all. If the Offense doesnt trip on our ***** all night, they are much more pissed about their crappy QB who cant be trusted to throw the ball.

[ExiledInIllinois]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

strictly speaking, allowing 14 points and 4.8 YPC on 44 rushes when a team cannot throw the football is not a great performance in the NFL. 
 

The Pats aren’t mad about their offense today. They’re ecstatic. You’re just wrong.

It's not great football, but will work in bad weather.  Like putting studded snows on a vehicle.  Don't attempt to drive it August over 2 mph.