Did McDermott all but admit there will be coaching changes on the offensive side of the ball?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think this is a very prevalent question. 

 

Personally if McDermott wants to ask questions about the run game the first person he should be asking is his buddy in the GM chair. We lead the league in running back fumbles. All three of those players we brought in by Beane. Our interior line couldn't push cotton candy. They were all acquired by Beane. I put the redzone struggles somewhat at Daboll's door. It is something he has been good at the past two years but a combination of teams keying in on tendencies and some odd choices of calls at times have hurt them (though so has execution). 

 

The struggles in the run game...... IT. IS. PERSONNEL. If anyone thinks swapping out an OL coach or an OC but running it back with these players would change anything they are kidding themselves. The run game wasn't good last year when our offense was breaking records. Was it still the OC and the OL coach's fault then? Or is it two years of the same average and poor players on the interior of the offensive line and the average to below average running backs.

 

This.

 

Although just to show that I'm a born moderate and can get both sides of an issue mad at me, I will say that other teams manage to meld rookies or bargain-bin FA into a servicable OL (Pats did it for years with Coach Scar), and also manage to taylor their game to work with the abilities of their OL - for example, if your OL can manage to protect for 2.5 seconds but not 3.5 seconds, design a passing game for completions in 2-2.5 seconds.

 

And it's possible RB fumbling also has a connection to coaching.

[Big Turk]

6 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

I think I'd rather keep Daboll and get rid of McDermott, if there is a rift growing between them.

 

The future is passing, not running, and it has nothing to do with "toughness" whatsoever.

 

 

 

Uh...no. 

 

The defense has to respect your ability to run the ball or else they simply drop everyone into coverage and make throwing 10x harder than it should be if they knew you could turn around and hand the ball off effectively with a light box.

 

You don't necessarily need to run the ball a lot but you need to run it well when you do to be a complete offense. The better you can run the ball, the easier it makes it for you to throw the ball.

 

Not sure why people have such a hard time grasping this concept. The two don't exist in a vacuum.

[Magox]

6 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

I think I'd rather keep Daboll and get rid of McDermott, if there is a rift growing between them.

 

The future is passing, not running, and it has nothing to do with "toughness" whatsoever.

 

 

This must be one of the most ratioed posts I've seen on TBD.

 

Deservedly so

[Simon]

6 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

I see this a lot all over this board.

 

Why can't he?  All the great QBs do it all by themselves, consistently, game to game, for years.

 

Brady has been doing it for 2 decades.

 

If Josh hits the wide open man, a handful of times last night when it mattered, we easily win the game.

 

 

 

This is a giant load.

A) No QB does it by themselves, much less consistently

B) The kid is 25 years old with arguably the worst OLine in the entire NFL and is still producing like a Top 5 QB. Is there another QB in the world that can pull that off right now?

[Sweats]

6 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

I think I'd rather keep Daboll and get rid of McDermott, if there is a rift growing between them.

 

The future is passing, not running, and it has nothing to do with "toughness" whatsoever.

 

 

 

 

 

 

........fire everybody

[JohnNord]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

And if that wasn’t enough, try the 5 RZ trips vs Tenn and the Jags game

That’s what drives me crazy about the McDermott critics.  There’s a reason why he wants to establish a run and it’s not because he wants a “ground and pound” offense,  It’s because it would be advantageous given the looks they are getting on defense.  It would also help take teams out of Cover 2.

 

They've tried throwing 40-50 times against the looks defenses have been giving them.  Then again, they don’t have the personnel on offense to make defenses pay.  It’s a tough spot for the offense to be in - not sure there’s an answer this year.

5 minutes ago, Sweats said:

 

 

 

 

........fire everybody

because Terry Pegula is so great at rebuilds 

[Nihilarian]

Why does everyone now think the Buffalo Bills need to run the ball more?

 

Simply put, because opposing teams have found ways to put extreme pressure on Allen while keeping him contained from running. Then, they have also found ways to stop that vaunted Bills passing attack.

 

Diggs, Sanders, Gabe Davis, Knox all on the field and suddenly teams with bad stat defenses are clamping down on the Buffalo passing scheme. The Colts were 28th. The Jags were 30th. Tennessee was 25th when they played the Bills. 

 

Can't pass the ball...blame it on the O line pass blocking. Can't run the ball...blame it on the stinky Bills RB's & poor play by the O line.

 

Hey! This is the NFL and teams will always figure out what you are doing on offense and work out ways to stop it. If you keep doing the same thing over and over... opponents will figure out a way to stop it. 

 

Where is the innovation on offense? Where are the adjustments to counter what the defense is doing? What's going on with the game planning / play calling this season? 

 

 

On a different note. Tom Brady finds a way to win no matter what team he plays for. Peyton Manning did the very same thing when he changed teams. Right now Josh Allen doesn't have that type of game experience and neither did Brady, Manning in their first few seasons.

 

I don't know about firing anyone at this point in the season. However, I do think that McD needs to plant his foot in some dark places.

If not that... then perhaps allowing others a shot the game plans, play calling for a game or two. Ken Dorsey? At this point it might be worth it to see if he can run the offense for the future. Or, on that last point wait until after they don't make the playoffs...

 

Just to point out that Marv Levy went from Jim Ringo after the 1988 12-4 season to former Colts HC Ted Marchibroda. He taught Jim Kelly to call his own plays. The Buffalo offense was so good that Ted was rehired by the Colts to be their HC again after the 1991 season. It was okay though as Jim Kelly was experienced enough to now run that offense without Ted. 

 

 

[Kelly's Heroes]

One would only hope Daboll is shown the door. This team lacks an identity after making a deep run last year.  I watch other teams develop linemen we cannot do the same. That is coaching and a stub born OC that does not see a player's strengths and weakness. We never put a 6th linemen in the game yet we really have no blockers at TE. Last night running a spread offense and running out of it....might as well have put a lb or corner in the backfield to start with.  Anyone know how many off tackle, sweeps, and traps we ran all night. I saw a lot of dive plays! We lack heart and athleticism on the line. Feliciano should not be brought back, he is not any use to use on the injury list....just another paycheck player, add Williams and Ford to that list......the rest of the linemen behind ford well, must really be bad.....not to crack the lineup. That said a good OC would recognize the deficiency and  design a scheme to maximize our franchise QB chances instead every dam play is a jail break and it is a matter of time before we lose Allen for next season with that clown Daboll calling the plays!

[Locomark]

10 hours ago, JohnNord said:

go watch the Pittsburgh game week 1…. That’s what happens when defenses play the pass and dare your team to the run the football.  

Oh really ? We could have killed Pittsburgh if we weren’t so conservative in that game. In wasn’t because we threw too much! We ran ran pass so we were in 3rd and long constantly just like last night until they woke up and decided to pass. We can complete a million 5 yard passes in this offense and zero 5 yard runs. 

[PepeSilvia]

You can’t have 32 teams that are reliant on the pass. At some point teams have to go against the grain to compete. Which is why you’re seeing teams like the colts, Titans (before Henry got hurt), and the cowboys (when they commit to the run) have success this year.
 

Pittsburgh has made a fundamental change from being pass heavy a few years ago to back to playing great defense and running the ball because that’s what wins in the Pittsburgh climate. Ben is holding them back

 

To make a deep run or win a championship you have to run the ball, stop the run and take the ball away. Last year Fournette was Tampa’s MVP in the post season and they were top notch in the passing game all season.

 

you don’t have to be great at running the ball you just have to be efficient, make other teams respect it and have it compliment your pass game especially in cold weather.
 

you have to absolutely stop the run. If you don’t, it opens up so much more with play action and opening up mid to deep routes
 

[Scott7975]

11 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The Bills were the better team last night. That would worry me as a Pats fan. If the Bills make any of about 5 or 6 routine plays in the game (and I mean routine plays not 'that woulda taken something special but he had a chance' type plays) the Bills win. If they make 2 or 3 of them they win going away. 

 

This wasn't a win for Belichick's coaching (as much as I totally subscribe to him as the goat). It was a win gifted by the Bills screwing up some basic, basic plays. Block, catch, tackle. 

 

As Chan Gailey once said "plays are more fun that fundamentals. Fundamentals are more important than plays."

 

Andrews or Kelce on this team last night instead of Knox and the Pats would have gotten smoked.  Hell probably even Gesicki.

[Scott7975]

10 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

It's not any coaches fault that the Bills have the worst group of RBs in the league.  Even though I'm a big supporter of him, this is Beane's fault for not drafting a RB before the 3rd round.

 

BTW any of you "don't draft a RB in the 1st round group" need to look around the league and recognize that a running back helps the passing game by not letting a team be one dimentional as the Bills are since the RBs are no threat.   

 

At least Singletary would do just fine if we had an Oline.  Titans put up 270 yards on NE last week with guys off the street.  No name backs all over the league every year do just fine.  Our line sucks and or the coaches of the line suck.

[Toyo321]

14 hours ago, JohnNord said:

What if Josh says he wants Daboll?

Josh just wants to win.  And if Daboll is stopping him from achieving this then you all know which person is expendable.

[Buffalo ill]

It's not like people are asking for the bills to gain 200 yards on the ground every game.  I  would be happier if the qb running for 40 yards in the game wasn't our top rusher by far.

[SydneyBillsFan]

15 hours ago, FireChans said:

Baldy just posted some plays on Twitter. The entire OL gets zero push. We lose double teams, LB’s beat down our OG’s, and we don’t move the LoS at all. 
 

Daboll calls HB dives because if we execute, we get 4 and if we don’t, we get 1 or 2. If you start running traps and counters and tosses and other slow developing run plays, we will get -4. I take 2nd and 9 over 2nd and 14 all day every day.

 

Team is fundamentally flawed. There is no one on the OL that should be safe next year. Maybe Spencer Brown.

 

I would also give Dawkins the benefit of the doubt given his new contract and any potential lingering COVID issues.

 

But yeah - the guys playing on the interior should be well and truly be placed on notice.

[Trogdor]

16 hours ago, Wayne Cubed said:

Daboll was pretty much a nothing OC before Josh. Josh makes Daboll, not other way around. 

McD wasn't exactly a world beating coordinator either. He was gifted hall of fame talent as a secondary coach, but didn't last when promoted and was fired by Reid. He had 2 good years with the Panthers, but the rest they were towards the bottom of the league in points surrendered. There is serious myth building around him that his teams are disciplined and prepared, but that never actually seems to be the case. 

[cwater10]

17 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

The future is passing, not running, and it has nothing to do with "toughness" whatsoever.

The idea that teams win by "not running" is an illusion.  When did passing and running become mutually exclusive?  There is little evidence to suggest that the future is exclusively passing.  That idea is an analytics trick of the tail.  You must do both.  Call it physicality, toughness or whatever fits, but it is football 101.  And it has everything to do with the ability to move the ball.  Blocking and tackling are the cornerstones or the game.  You can do it or you can't.

 

Passing had a moment in the very recent past, but that moment isn't now.  Defenses have adjusted.  You don't need to look too closely at recent standings to see the pendulum swinging back.  The future, the past and the present are all about balance and versatility.  

 

This is hardly news worthy.  If you look at the groundbreaking offenses over the past 30 years, with the possible exception of KC in 2019, which could be as much as an outlier as Trent Dilfer winning a SB, all of the great passing teams, all of the truly great teams had a strong complimentary run game.  Brady ALWAYS had a dominant OL and imposing run game to fall back on, even with no names on the line and in the backfield.  Payton Manning had his HOF RB in Edjerrin James.  Even the Jarred Goff Rams brief moment a few years ago was set in motion by Todd Gurley.  When he fizzled, so did they.  Kurt Warner and greatest show on turf had Marshall Faulk tearing it up behind Orlando Pace and friends.  Troy Aikman had Emmitt and an insane offensive line to set the tone.  Montana and the West Coast Offense had Roger Craig and Ricky Waters running behind All Pros on the OL.  Elway never really won anything until he had Terrell Davis.  Look in our own historic backyard and you see the recipe.  The K Gun was awesome and fun, but powered by a dominating running game featuring a HOF RB, and imposing OL.  It was the backbone of those teams.  Tell me how many Super Bowls we sniff without Thurman Thomas, Kent Hull, House Ballard, Jim Ritcher and co.  They only lost the Super Bowls, because they inevitably came up against a team that was tougher and more physical than even they were.

 

And now we have Josh Allen and highly talented receivers that had a moment of their own last year.  They've hit a wall.  What do you suppose has gone wrong?  What is missing from this team compared to the teams that actually succeed with great QB's year in and year out?  

[Mynamemike]

2 hours ago, SydneyBillsFan said:

 

I would also give Dawkins the benefit of the doubt given his new contract and any potential lingering COVID issues.

 

But yeah - the guys playing on the interior should be well and truly be placed on notice.

IMO he is the definition of soft.  Seems like a nice guy and all but he has no killer instinct.  I don’t want my offensive and defensive lineman being nice guys.  

[Behindenemylines]

18 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

If McDermott tries and turn this team into a tough running team he will be signing his own pink slip.

The same line who opens lanes for the run protects the QB correct?  A strong run game opens up the passing game correct?  It’s obvious that nobody thinks we can run, which we can’t, so shut down the pass and we don’t score correct?  
 

your take on this is weak at best 

[JohnNord]

9 hours ago, Locomark said:

Oh really ? We could have killed Pittsburgh if we weren’t so conservative in that game. In wasn’t because we threw too much! We ran ran pass so we were in 3rd and long constantly just like last night until they woke up and decided to pass. We can complete a million 5 yard passes in this offense and zero 5 yard runs. 

Maybe you are right about sequencing of plays but the stats tell a different story.  Allen was 30-51 for 270.  The Bills threw 51 times and with only 15 running plays for their RB’s.  So not sure where you’re getting run-run-pass from, it’s not possible given these splits.  Singletary actually had one of his best performances with 11 carries for 72 yards.  If anything you can make the argument they should have run a few more times. 

 

I don’t think it was a result of a conservative game plan, as much as it was Josh struggling to figure out 2 high shell under significant duress.   This also happened against Jacksonville, and parts of Indianapolis and New England and plagued them all season in the redzone.  
 

This is is why trying to develop some sort of run game in these situations is not the ridiculous idea some make it out to be

1 hour ago, Behindenemylines said:

The same line who opens lanes for the run protects the QB correct?  A strong run game opens up the passing game correct?  It’s obvious that nobody thinks we can run, which we can’t, so shut down the pass and we don’t score correct?  
 

your take on this is weak at best 

This is the biggest fallacy to develop from the Bills game.  People assume McDermott wants to “ground and pound” and coach defensively and I really don’t think that’s the case.
 

He wants to be able to run the ball when the offense gets good running looks.  That helps create a little more balance which should help our little out a little in the pass game as well.  Also do you notice how bad our line struggles to pick up short yardage for first downs?  That’s the physicality I believe McDermott is talking about.  
 

I’m pretty sure he knows the type of team he has