Is it time to be concerned about a lack of 4th Q heroics?

[FireChans]

So over the last two years, Josh has 8 GWD. How many GWD or 4th Q comebacks do we have, as a team, this year?

 

I want to say zero. I think it’s zero. Obviously, it’s not all on Josh. The team chokes away all of their good chances. But we haven’t won an ugly one all year, and that’s the difference between good teams and bad ones. We don’t get the bounces and we don’t pull wins out of our asses.

[Roundybout]

Josh drove the team down the field INTO THE WIND on back-to-back drives. They then proceeded to collapse in the red zone. It's on coaching. 

[MAJBobby]

Maybe if we didnt Run Moss into the back of OGs EVERY FREAKING time we get in the Redzone.  Maybe if we didnt have a Coward Coaching display we wouldnt have to worry about 4th QTR Heroics,

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

Josh drove the team down the field INTO THE WIND on back-to-back drives. They then proceeded to collapse in the red zone. It's on coaching. 

 

Josh had Bease WIDE OPEN for at least the 1st down, if not a touchdown, on that last play. He chose to play Hero Ball, again, and forced a bad pass to Davis.

 

Until he learns to take what they give him, we're going to have issues.

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Maybe if we didnt Run Moss into the back of OGs EVERY FREAKING time we get in the Redzone.  Maybe if we didnt have a Coward Coaching display we wouldnt have to worry about 4th QTR Heroics,

 

On him as well. Entire right side of the field was open, and instead of bouncing it outside which every RB should want to do, he cut it back into an awaiting defender.

 

There are definitely coaching and game plan issues, but player execution has been horrible as well.

[dave mcbride]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Josh had Bease WIDE OPEN for at least the 1st down, if not a touchdown, on that last play. He chose to play Hero Ball, again, and forced a bad pass to Davis.

 

Until he learns to take what they give him, we're going to have issues.

Beasley would easily have scored on that play. Also, he had Sanders wide open for a first vs. Jax and made the wrong decision too -- forcing a throw across his body to a covered Diggs. His back shoulder throw to Diggs at the goal line last night was not only off, it was a bad decision given his struggles with that throw all game (Diggs was open and probably would have scored). He called the wrong sneak play vs. TN (one they were ready for because it's only sneak play he does). He's the best player on the team by a long way, but he has not excelled in crunch time in close games this year so far.

[Roundybout]

3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Josh had Bease WIDE OPEN for at least the 1st down, if not a touchdown, on that last play. He chose to play Hero Ball, again, and forced a bad pass to Davis.

 

Until he learns to take what they give him, we're going to have issues.

 

Not a bad pass at all. The safety was right with Beaseley on that play too; he simply turned around and swatted the ball down. Someone said it on another thread, but another factor was the wind pushing the ball right (as seen on the Diggs incompletion). Going to Davis was the correct decision. 

[dave mcbride]

10 minutes ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

Josh drove the team down the field INTO THE WIND on back-to-back drives. They then proceeded to collapse in the red zone. It's on coaching. 

He missed plays last night. He made some good plays, but he wasn't great overall. 

1 minute ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

Not a bad pass at all. The safety was right with Beaseley on that play too; he simply turned around and swatted the ball down. Someone said it on another thread, but another factor was the wind pushing the ball right (as seen on the Diggs incompletion). Going to Davis was the correct decision. 

The throw would never have made it to Davis. It was clearly short (watch the angle from behind the LOS) and behind Davis. Also, Beasley was directly in front of him; it wasn't a sideline throw to his right.

Edited December 7, 2021 by dave mcbride

[Brennan Huff]

It’s a concern that we need to try to rely on 4th quarter heroics. The real concern is our lack of a run defense and a lack of a run game of our own

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

Not a bad pass at all. The safety was right with Beaseley on that play too; he simply turned around and swatted the ball down. Someone said it on another thread, but another factor was the wind pushing the ball right (as seen on the Diggs incompletion). Going to Davis was the correct decision. 

 

BEase had inside leverage and a wide open field in front of him. They showed it like 3 times on the replay. There is really no debate there.

[Chandler#81]

The distinct absence of ‘Josh Allen late-game heroics’ has been a concern for me since the Tennessee game. When Jacksonville and now NE* games produced no necessary late game heroics, I now fear this once daunting magic aspect of our Super QB has sadly expired.

 

I DON’T blame Allen for this latest travesty one bit. He was clearly our best player on the field last night -which is his greatest routine aspect. But the lack of accomplishing the final touch is as much contributing to these disastrous recent results as the overall poor team performances. 

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, Brennan Huff said:

It’s a concern that we need to try to rely on 4th quarter heroics. The real concern is our lack of a run defense and a lack of a run game of our own

There are always tons of close games in the NFL. Great QBs make plays to win games all of the time. He hasn't done that this season.

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

There are always tons of close games in the NFL. Great QBs make plays to win games all of the time. He hasn't done that this season.

You mean like a Dime to Diggs (that was dropped), Maybe that Dime to Knox in the endzone that the DB made a hell of a play on.  the Catchers have to show up too, and this game looked like the Rookie Knox Game 

[dave mcbride]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

You mean like a Dime to Diggs (that was dropped), Maybe that Dime to Knox in the endzone that the DB made a hell of a play on.  the Catchers have to show up too, and this game looked like the Rookie Knox Game 

Or the fact that Diggs was wide open for a TD at the goal line after he smoked Jackson and the ball sailed way over his head? Diggs would absolutely have caught a decent pass there. Don't get me wrong - Allen is great. But the crunch time play this year has been subpar. The sacks he takes, the wrong decisions, etc. -- they have added up. He has five games left to rectify things for this team, so all hope isn't lost. My larger point is that it's OK to hold Allen to account even if there are a lot of bad things happening around him. He's been paid a quarter of a billion dollars and he's a physical freak. He needs to rise above.

[FireChans]

18 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Maybe if we didnt Run Moss into the back of OGs EVERY FREAKING time we get in the Redzone.  Maybe if we didnt have a Coward Coaching display we wouldnt have to worry about 4th QTR Heroics,

Sure. But sometimes bad things happen, the team plays bad, and someone has to step up to win the game. Hasn’t happened this year.

[SCBills]

This is a legitimately interesting topic.  

 

For every game we lost, we can point to mistakes outside Allen that killed us late...  Gabe Davis drop vs Jax and the Knox shenanigans last night immediately come to mind on the final drives.  

 

That said, Allen slipped on a QB sneak that lost us the game against Ten.  At some point, he needs to come through.. I'll admit, I thought he would last night, but yet again, we're making excuses (some very valid) as to why he didn't.  

 

Not sure what to make of it, but while Josh CAN be better, the team around his HAS to be better.  No other successful QB in this league is being asked to win games with zero running game... it's absurd, and it's killing us in the red zone.

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by SCBills

[FireChans]

9 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

The distinct absence of ‘Josh Allen late-game heroics’ has been a concern for me since the Tennessee game. When Jacksonville and now NE* games produced no necessary late game heroics, I now fear this once daunting magic aspect of our Super QB has sadly expired.

 

I DON’T blame Allen for this latest travesty one bit. He was clearly our best player on the field last night -which is his greatest routine aspect. But the lack of accomplishing the final touch is as much contributing to these disastrous recent results as the overall poor team performances. 

Great stuff. I don’t know if expired is the right word but it’s not our year in that dept for sure.

[Paup 1995MVP]

15 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Josh had Bease WIDE OPEN for at least the 1st down, if not a touchdown, on that last play. He chose to play Hero Ball, again, and forced a bad pass to Davis.

 

Until he learns to take what they give him, we're going to have issues.

 

On him as well. Entire right side of the field was open, and instead of bouncing it outside which every RB should want to do, he cut it back into an awaiting defender.

 

There are definitely coaching and game plan issues, but player execution has been horrible as well.

That last play on 4th and 14 was ridiculous.  Beasley was open and breaking away from his defender at the 5 yard line to the right side of the field.  That was an easy read that he missed.  Why Beasley wasn't his first option on that play is absurd.  And the throw itself to Davis was never going to get there.  It was a floater.  He just kind of choked there.  

 

Moss has no vision when running.  Brieda while having some fumbling issues gives us our best chance to score in that situation.  (See Jets game.)  Mistake not playing him there as well.  

[The Frankish Reich]

20 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Maybe if we didnt Run Moss into the back of OGs EVERY FREAKING time we get in the Redzone.  Maybe if we didnt have a Coward Coaching display we wouldnt have to worry about 4th QTR Heroics,

I love how this is becoming a meme ... Zack Moss running directly into his own Guard's back. Someone needs to do a lowlight reel of those plays.

[MAJBobby]

6 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Or the fact that Diggs was wide open for a TD at the goal line after he smoked Jackson and the ball sailed way over his head? Diggs would absolutely have caught a decent pass there. Don't get me wrong - Allen is great. But the crunch time play this year has been subpar. The sacks he takes, the wrong decisions, etc. -- they have added up. He has five games left to rectify things for this team, so all hope isn't lost. My larger point is that it's OK to hold Allen to account even if there are a lot of bad things happening around him. He's been paid a quarter of a billion dollars and he's a physical freak. He needs to rise above.

You mean he missed a WR throwing into a 25-50 MPH wind?  Shocking it does happen.  That is why I am not as pissed about misses last night.  Build a Dome.  Now if the wind wasnt horrific and those misses occurred YES I would be fragging Josh. 

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Sure. But sometimes bad things happen, the team plays bad, and someone has to step up to win the game. Hasn’t happened this year.

But again it gets put on Allen.  If Diggs makes his catch we are not talking about it.  If Davis makes his catch in Jax we are not talking about it.  If Dawkins doesnt get blown up on a sneak in Tenn we are not talking about it.  It can never be ALL Josh All the time.

[Stank_Nasty]

Theres no denying they've come up small in 3 games this year during the final minutes. Total coaching/offensive letdowns. Its really disheartening. Total lack of the clutch gene all around this season.