Not News - This roster just isn't good enough.

[Billl]

41 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

If not now, then when? 

 

Having a top 5 QB on a rookie contract is a gigantic advantage for constructing a roster. 

 

If Beane can't build a superbowl contending roster while Josh has a 10mm cap hit - what makes you think he'll be able to build one in the future when Josh has a 40mm cap hit? 

 

 

To expand on this, where are the impact players on rookie contracts?  This team has an old roster from a contract standpoint, and I don’t see a true difference maker on the roster that Beane drafted other than Allen (and Beane will never get to make another top 10 pick).

 

Oliver, Edmunds, White (not Beane’s pick), etc. are going to start getting really expensive, and I don’t anticipate getting much from them next year.  They’re on the books for something like $36,000,000 in 2022.  Beane has got to start getting production out of the draft or he’s going to find himself with one hell of an ugly roster.  
 

He’s basically got next year to figure it out because in 2023 Josh’s cap hit will be quadruple what it is today.  IMO, he needs to use next season going all in with guys like Epenesa, Basham, Groot, etc. just to see what he’s got.  If it turns out there isn’t much there, he’s looking at a tear down.  You can’t just sit around for 3 years hoping young players figure it out just in time to get a big second contract.

[Hawaii50]

Roster not perfect, but could very well be good enough.  Something is just off with this team.  Our coaches do not seem to game plan to our strengths, namely QB and receiving corp, but rather get mired in game time doldrums.  Team hangs around close in most games so significant in game adjustments not made.  Something bad happens such as a turnover, dropped ball, or untimely penalty and we fall just short.  This late in the season we are not going to become a good running team, or establish a solid O-line. We can however, go back to being an aggressive, pass first team, quit being satisfied being in close games and try to dictate how other teams respond to us.  We can use the passing game to set up some running.  We simply do not have the tools to use our running game to set up a pass. No team is afraid of the Bills beating them with the run (other than Allen running), but you can bet all are worried about being beaten by our passing game.

[Nextmanup]

The OP is kind of stating the obvious, but I agree.

 

Look at the names up and down the defensive line who don't really bring much to the party every game.  There are a lot of guys there that should be contributing more than they are.  It's been a disaster.

 

Look at Edmunds.  They should be calling his name every couple of plays with everyone saying "wow, what a baller" but he's nothing CLOSE to that type of guy, and should be replaced for an upgrade ASAP.

 

Josh couldn't find WIDE OPEN receivers last night when we needed to make plays.

 

The OL is trash; you could replace all 5 guys and no one would complain.

 

Morse should be the foundation of the whole thing and he is a very mediocre center.

 

Our RBs are extremely mediocre, and they do no one thing extremely well.

 

They should probably all be replaced.

 

We can all go on with this....

 

 

[Brandon]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Disagree.  Roster is top 5 in the league.  They are losing games to inferior rosters.

 

They probably are a top 5 overall roster,  but they still have pretty clear weaknesses that are leaving them vulnerable to teams that are capable of exposing those weaknesses. 

[Nextmanup]

4 minutes ago, Hawaii50 said:

Roster not perfect, but could very well be good enough.  Something is just off with this team.  Our coaches do not seem to game plan to our strengths, namely QB and receiving corp, but rather get mired in game time doldrums.  Team hangs around close in most games so significant in game adjustments not made.  Something bad happens such as a turnover, dropped ball, or untimely penalty and we fall just short.  This late in the season we are not going to become a good running team, or establish a solid O-line. We can however, go back to being an aggressive, pass first team, quit being satisfied being in close games and try to dictate how other teams respond to us.  We can use the passing game to set up some running.  We simply do not have the tools to use our running game to set up a pass. No team is afraid of the Bills beating them with the run (other than Allen running), but you can bet all are worried about being beaten by our passing game.

You don't need to "use the run to set up the pass" man.  That's old fashioned "football lore".

 

Our problem is we are built around an aggressive passing attack, but it's not as good as we think.

 

Our OL is terrible, and Josh couldn't find WIDE OPEN RECEIVERS when he had to! 

 

If he had done that, we win that game, easily.

 

 

[JaCrispy]

1 hour ago, BeastMaster said:

I sure as hell had my doubts on both sides of the line.

 

I was sure they would at least draft a space eater on D, and I wanted an upgrade at LG.

 

I was ok with the drafting of Moss, and I still think our backs could do well if we were stronger up front. I have also not been a huge fan of the coach. I liked the culture he instilled, but his GameDay decisions have always been lacking to me.

 

My fears were never put to rest, and now they are coming to fruition. 

I agree about McD...I never thought he had a high IQ when it came to game management...feel like I’m always screaming at the tv, telling him to take a TO, or go for 2, or a 4th down, etc...just obvious stuff my generation learned from video games... I feel like he never learned the obvious stuff...

 

He’s a great guy, but I just don’t know if he is super bowl caliber...

[Chaos]

1 hour ago, Success said:

I'm not going to say we can't still make a SB run w/ this roster - because we can.

 

But it feels like we're still a year away.  The flaws are obvious, and I'm sure they'll get addressed - but we may fall short this year because of them.

 

Here is the thing. Next year is not always better than this year.  The shelf life of NFL players is short.  The 2020 Bills seem to be superior to the 2021 bills.  "A year away" simply means a year away.  The Bills may be better.  They may be worse. Josh Allen is currently one of the top 5 QBs in the NFL, IMO.  However all the top five are at their ceiling as QBs.  Apparently the Patriots don't even need a QB, but next year their rookie QB will be a second year player and eligible to improve.  

7 minutes ago, Brandon said:

 

They probably are a top 5 overall roster,  but they still have pretty clear weaknesses that are leaving them vulnerable to teams that are capable of exposing those weaknesses. 

QB is top 5.  lets review the other units.  Secondary Top 5.   Linebackers - middle of the pack.  Dline - middle of the pack, at best.   Online, among the worst in the league.  Running backs, among the worst in the league. WR's middle of the pack, Maybe on the verge of top 10.   TE - Dawson when not dropping balls, makes them top 10.   Its not clear to me that this adds up to a top 5 roster. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Monday morning quartebacking. As much crap as I give Beane I thought this last offseason was his finest.

He brought back Milano and Williams and got guys to take pay cuts.

They had no more money to spend and got good value out of Spencer Brown

The big error was the bet on Ford. He was supposed to step up and return from injury and be a good guard. He's a bust. 

The other error is TE#2 Tommy Sweeney and Gilliam.  Both of these guys are awful.  Neither belong on a NFL roster. They have no good blocking TE.

Lastly they have a two back to back second round picks in Epenesa and Basham that have done nothing.  You can't keep missing on guys that high in the draft. 

Beane gets one more off season from me before I'm done with him. 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Ethan in Portland

[Nextmanup]

3 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Monday morning quartebacking. As much crap as I give Beane I thought this last offseason was his finest.

He brought back Milano and Williams and got guys to take pay cuts.

They had no more money to spend and got good value out of Spencer Brown

The big error was the bet on Ford. He was supposed to step up and return from injury and be a good guard. He's a bust. 

The other error is TE#2 Tommy Sweeney and Gilliam.  Both of these guys are awful.  Neither belong on a NFL roster. They have no good blocking TE.

Lastly they have a two back to back second round picks in Epenesa and Basham that have done nothing.  You can't keep missing on guys that high in the draft. 

Beane gets one more off season from me before I'm done with him. 

And yet I think Beane has done extremely well in other areas, building the team generally speaking.

 

No doubt the drafting has been bad for the most part and it needs to be better.

 

The real value provided by McDermott and Beane was immediately establishing a detailed, multi-year plan to turn a laughing stock of an organization into a pretty solid one.

 

They knew what they were doing, and got a lot done in a few years.

 

I wonder if that is their ceiling.  Perhaps they have moved the ball as far as they can, and it is now time to push forward with a new, better, regime.

 

The part that scares me is most of the guys floating around the NFL are idiots.

 

If Beane and McDermott are replaced, we have no guarantee the new regime will be better, and it might well be worse.

 

We would need a proven guy to come available who showed interest in the job IMO.

 

 

[billsfan714]

What worries me going forward is the cap.   I look at next year and see we have around 13 million in space,   Cut Klein maybe you get you to 18 million.   On the DL alone guys not signed for next year include: Hughes, Addison, Butler, Harrison Philips, Justin Zimmer, Obada,  other FAs include  Levi Wallace, Sanders, McKenzie, Breida, Trubisky.   Wallace's market value is 5.7 mil, Trubisky is making 2.5 mil.   I just dont see a lot of space and thats a bunch of people to replace with not much for FAs and a normal draft.   Let alone improve the lines, finding a 2nd TE, finding someone better than 3.4 ypc Moss, etc.  

[KOKBILLS]

4 hours ago, NewEra said:

Knock him.  
 

Past success doesn’t allow free passes in the present.  I love Beane.  I don’t want him (or McD) fired.  Yet his decisions along the DL, OL and RB position during his tenure have kept us from winning a SB (last year and looks worse this year).

 

He chose this IOL. They can’t open any holes in the run game.  He chose the RBs that aren’t decisive (and talented) enough to be productive behind this OL.  He paid the DL big bucks to be an average DL (which led to our OL being somewhat neglected this offseason).

 

he deserves criticism.  He doesn’t deserve to be fired.  

 

Agreed...

 

This was a tough lesson for Beane, and McD to learn...But from here on out they need to get way better on when to cut and run and when to re-sign. When a player shows he cannot do something well, especially when it's not in their Rookie year, there is a likelihood they may never do that thing well...You can't coach and develop your way out of everything. And you're WAY better off being a year early than a year late in addressing those positions...

 

I think the Bills leadership knew exactly what they needed to do to take the next step. Where they blew it was assuming they could get that kind of production with basically the same personnel.

 

Anyway...

[hondo in seattle]

2 hours ago, KOKBILLS said:

 

Agreed...

 

This was a tough lesson for Beane, and McD to learn...But from here on out they need to get way better on when to cut and run and when to re-sign. When a player shows he cannot do something well, especially when it's not in their Rookie year, there is a likelihood they may never do that thing well...You can't coach and develop your way out of everything. And you're WAY better off being a year early than a year late in addressing those positions...

 

I think the Bills leadership knew exactly what they needed to do to take the next step. Where they blew it was assuming they could get that kind of production with basically the same personnel.

 

Anyway...

 

I remember hearing a lot about the importance of "continuity" on the offensive line.  And, no doubt, continuity is important.  If you have a good OL, keep the band together and let them improve their teamwork and get better yet.

 

We didn't have good players for our OL.  Keeping bad guys together for a sustained period of time isn't going to magically make them good.

 

[Billl]

Who on this roster will still be on the team in 2023?  There are a LOT of tough decisions to be made with guys due for second and third contracts.  

[CincyBillsFan]

8 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Disagree.  Roster is top 5 in the league.  They are losing games to inferior rosters.

I would have agreed with you earlier in the season but the glaring issues at RB & O-line mean that we at best have a Top 10 roster.

[John from Riverside]

Hard to say it is at this point.....the weaknesses are too glaring

[Sweats]

The roster is fine, minus the Oline and the running game........our coaching staff is a downright mess.

[McBean]

8 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

I agree.  Never properly addressed the O Line or for that matter front 7 on defense.   Now Morse is ancient and we have no real guards.   Going for RBs in the 3rd hasn't worked and with a weak O Line we have no run game.  Edmunds has great games and games like yesterday where Belichek can make him into a non-entity, as he has in the past.

 

 

 

8 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

Back in March, I started a topic: "I'm Not Sure We Will Repeat as AFCE Champs"

 

I was concerned about a few things including our poor OL and lack of a running attack.  And while a few brave souls agreed with me, I was assaulted by the mob.  My football wisdom was doubted.  My intellect insulted.  My manhood questioned.  Worst of all, I even had my Bills Mafia membership card revoked!

 

https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/231992-not-sure-we-will-repeat-as-afce-champs/

 

Yet today I read that the suicide hotline in Buffalo is experiencing a spike in calls while fans want McDermott, Daboll, and every other Bills coach drawn and quartered - and then fired.   

 

I hated watching the Pats beat us last night but I'm not pulling my hair out.  I never shared the Super Bowl expectations of my Mafia brothers and sisters (if I can still claim a familial relationship after being expelled from the club).  I just never believed this roster was good enough.

 

And, look, I'm not knocking Beane.  Today's roster is better than the one he inherited.  But he - clearly - has more work to do before the Bills can make a Super Bowl run.

 

 

 

I am knocking Beane.

 

His draft picks outside of Allen stink.

[97bills]

Simple, can’t stop the run !!! Can’t run the ball !!!  We’re dose that ever work in the NFL 

[Milanos Milano]

8 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Disagree.  Roster is top 5 in the league.  They are losing games to inferior rosters.

So we are either losing games because of Beane’s bad talent evaluation or we are losing games because of McD/Daboll etc. Pick one. 

Edited December 8, 2021 by IronMaidenBills

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Agree with OP but especially as to our lines - give me an off-season full of big uglies!