Democracy’s Fiery Ordeal: The War in Ukraine 🇺🇦

[Niagara Bill]

1 hour ago, Motorin' said:

 

You offer these claims as an interpretation. Not as evidence. 

 

I think you're missing parts of the big picture. 

 

Obama moved on Ukraine after the discovery of natural gas deposits off the coast of Crimea that are so large it could effectively put Russian natural gas out of business in Europe. 

 

Burisma was the CIA backed entity to leverage Ukrainian gas into profit for the US. 

 

Behind closed doors, Hillary and her neo-con partners on the Republican side were telling the Ukrainians that 2016 was going to be the year that the US was going to help them take back Crimea. (And thus get the gas deposits). 

 

Ukraine is Obama / Clinton Iraq, Burisma is their Haliburton. 

 

The fake demonization of Trump as a Russian stooge was part and parcel with the Clinton plan to grab Ukraine's natural gas. 

 

Smear Trump as a Russian asset because he was the only thing (in their mind) standing between them and the jackpot. 

 

The same swamp creatures were cooking up plans to launch an offensive during the Biden regime to get the gas back when Putin invaded...

 

No, Putin isn't the good guy. But at least tell the truth. The Obama / Clinton / Biden regime have been angling for 15 years to get their hands on Ukraine's natural gas in order to enrich themselves. And in the process cut Russia out of supplying gas to Europe. 

 

Trump doesn't have any equity in the Burisma project, and Clinton paid for a fake Russian dossier to say he's a Russian asset and then had the MSM repeat the lie for ten years. 

 

The truth just might be that Trump doesn't have the same view of Russia because he doesn't stand to make billions from Ukrainian gas.  

 

 

 

I don't disagree with 95% of your post. Obama, Biden, we're 2 of the weak kneed pres of all time. 

None of this explains why Trump would turn on NATO, Ukraine, publicly rebuke Zelensky who had no relationship with either, represent that Putin has rights to Crimea, suggest that maybe Ukraine should disappear, and give Putin a hug, rather than double down on pressure on Russia with his favorite tariffs,  sanctions idea. 

To think he has a different view goes 100% of what he tells socialists in Europe, Liberals in Canada, communists in China. Suddenly he loves Putins brand of communism....hmmmm

Putins ownership of Putin is a far more practical explanation.

59 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

Natural gas. Dip *****. Not oil. 

 

And unlike you, I don't feel the need to flaunt my degrees as proof of authority to claim victory. 

 

You should do yourself a favor and look into the psychological research on conflict of interest in medicine. Time and again the doctors with the highest status in the field, who happen to believe they are impervious to conflicts of interest, end up being most susceptible. 

 

Now you're taking the word of a murdering mercenary because it fits your narrative? 

Vs the word of a murdering Dictator Putin...

[Motorin']

11 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

I don't disagree with 95% of your post. Obama, Biden, we're 2 of the weak kneed pres of all time. 

None of this explains why Trump would turn on NATO, Ukraine, publicly rebuke Zelensky who had no relationship with either, represent that Putin has rights to Crimea, suggest that maybe Ukraine should disappear, and give Putin a hug, rather than double down on pressure on Russia with his favorite tariffs,  sanctions idea. 

To think he has a different view goes 100% of what he tells socialists in Europe, Liberals in Canada, communists in China. Suddenly he loves Putins brand of communism....hmmmm

Putins ownership of Putin is a far more practical explanation.

Vs the word of a murdering Dictator Putin...

 

I think these are characterizations made by the entrenched left wing globalist politicians and media. 

 

I don't agree with a lot of those characterizations. 

 

I've seen deliberate misquotes by Trump and his admin. Like adding words he didn't say to make it look like Russia deserves the land they took. That's not what he's saying. 

 

He's saying it's unlikely that Ukraine is going to be able to win it back anytime soon. Not that Russia earned it or deserves it.

 

He's being a pragmatic realistic instead of a delusional ideologue. And I think you're reading a lot of things that are being twisted by delusional globalists 

ideologues. 

 

He hasn't abandoned NATO. He's said for the last 10 years that the other NATO countries aren't pulling their own weight. His actions over the last few weeks seem to be motivating the change he thinks needs to happen. That the European NATO allies need to pony up. 

 

The nasty talk about the US abandoning NATO, along with the counter threats to abandon the US seem to be coming from the very people that are spiteful about the gravy train being turned off. 

 

I don't think Trump is abandoning NATO or Ukraine. I think he's trying to force a cease fire and bring a negotiated end to the war. 

 

Ukraine's position so far has been they won't negotiate anything but a 100% return of land. And they will fight in perpetuity to get it back. And they assume that means unlimited US funding indefinitely. 

 

Unfortunately for Ukraine, this admin doesn't seem willing to continue to bleed out of our military resources so Ukraine can fight indefinitely. 

 

The other part of the delusional ideology of the globalists is this hope that they can replace Putin with a pro-Western liberal. Their lack of ability to perceive reality amounts to failing to understand that if Putin is ousted, the most likely scenario is that Russia will be ruled by far more sinister forces. Those itching to unleash  their nuclear arsenal on Ukraine and NATO allies supporting the Ukrainian war effort. 

 

So I read Trump's pressure on Zelensky and Ukraine as a means to force them to the negotiating table in order to prevent escalation, and to bring peace before this turns into a full blown regional war outside the borders of Ukraine. Which, if you listen to the globalists, is what they say the fighting in UKraine is all about. Keeping the fighting there so it doesn't expand to the rest of Europe. Trump's trying to end the fighting in Ukraine before it rages into something much larger. 

[wnyguy]

Ukraine takes a Mossad approach towards the Russkies-

https://nypost.com/2025/02/20/world-news/ukraine-planted-explosives-in-russian-drone-pilots-virtual-reality-goggles-in-operation-out-of-mossad-playbook/

[yall]

4 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

I think these are characterizations made by the entrenched left wing globalist politicians and media. 

 

I don't agree with a lot of those characterizations. 

 

I've seen deliberate misquotes by Trump and his admin. Like adding words he didn't say to make it look like Russia deserves the land they took. That's not what he's saying. 

 

He's saying it's unlikely that Ukraine is going to be able to win it back anytime soon. Not that Russia earned it or deserves it.

 

He's being a pragmatic realistic instead of a delusional ideologue. And I think you're reading a lot of things that are being twisted by delusional globalists 

ideologues. 

 

He hasn't abandoned NATO. He's said for the last 10 years that the other NATO countries aren't pulling their own weight. His actions over the last few weeks seem to be motivating the change he thinks needs to happen. That the European NATO allies need to pony up. 

 

The nasty talk about the US abandoning NATO, along with the counter threats to abandon the US seem to be coming from the very people that are spiteful about the gravy train being turned off. 

 

I don't think Trump is abandoning NATO or Ukraine. I think he's trying to force a cease fire and bring a negotiated end to the war. 

 

Ukraine's position so far has been they won't negotiate anything but a 100% return of land. And they will fight in perpetuity to get it back. And they assume that means unlimited US funding indefinitely. 

 

Unfortunately for Ukraine, this admin doesn't seem willing to continue to bleed out of our military resources so Ukraine can fight indefinitely. 

 

The other part of the delusional ideology of the globalists is this hope that they can replace Putin with a pro-Western liberal. Their lack of ability to perceive reality amounts to failing to understand that if Putin is ousted, the most likely scenario is that Russia will be ruled by far more sinister forces. Those itching to unleash  their nuclear arsenal on Ukraine and NATO allies supporting the Ukrainian war effort. 

 

So I read Trump's pressure on Zelensky and Ukraine as a means to force them to the negotiating table in order to prevent escalation, and to bring peace before this turns into a full blown regional war outside the borders of Ukraine. Which, if you listen to the globalists, is what they say the fighting in UKraine is all about. Keeping the fighting there so it doesn't expand to the rest of Europe. Trump's trying to end the fighting in Ukraine before it rages into something much larger. 

I think the bolded is something upon which we can all largely agree.

 

As much as they shouldn't have to negotiate a peace deal that concedes land, the alternative is endless conflict (they can't win outright, just bank on Russia giving up) and at a certain point we can't be expected to bankroll them until that happens.

 

I'm pro-Ukraine but when is enough death and money?

[LDD]

2 minutes ago, wnyguy said:

Ukraine takes a Mossad approach towards the Russkies-

https://nypost.com/2025/02/20/world-news/ukraine-planted-explosives-in-russian-drone-pilots-virtual-reality-goggles-in-operation-out-of-mossad-playbook/

And so would I if someone was doing what the Russians are doing to my country.  Ukranians know they are fighting for their survival.  This has less to do about land and boundaries than it does about an actual life worth living.  If the Russians are allowed to take control there is not hope for the Ukranian people.  They will be raped, murdered and pillaged.  

[Motorin']

1 minute ago, yall said:

I think the bolded is something upon which we can all largely agree.

 

As much as they shouldn't have to negotiate a peace deal that concedes land, the alternative is endless conflict (they can't win outright, just bank on Russia giving up) and at a certain point we can't be expected to bankroll them until that happens.

 

I'm pro-Ukraine but when is enough death and money?

 

I don't want Ukraine to lose. And I don't want Russia to win. 

 

Right now, I think there needs to be a demilitarized zone with Peace Keeping forces. 

 

Ukraine and the rest of the Europe can keep building up their military capabilities so that Russia doesn't dare launch another offensive. 

 

The idea that Russia is losing and about to topple is probably delusional at best. They're in a war time economy and can keep going for decades if need be. Ukraine doesn't have that kind of man power. 

 

But even if that is true, the idea that something better would emerge from a destabilized Russia is kind of crazy. As much of a gangster that Putin is, there's way worse over there waiting in the shadows. 

[wnyguy]

3 minutes ago, LDD said:

And so would I if someone was doing what the Russians are doing to my country.  Ukranians know they are fighting for their survival.  This has less to do about land and boundaries than it does about an actual life worth living.  If the Russians are allowed to take control there is not hope for the Ukranian people.  They will be raped, murdered and pillaged.  

I didn't say there was anything wrong with it. It's ingenious.

[Roundybout]

 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Roundybout]

2 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ukraine cannot have an election during a war according to their own constitution. This is not a challenging concept for people who aren’t spoon fed Elon’s propaganda.

[SectionC3]

33 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

I don't want Ukraine to lose. And I don't want Russia to win. 

 

Right now, I think there needs to be a demilitarized zone with Peace Keeping forces. 

 

Ukraine and the rest of the Europe can keep building up their military capabilities so that Russia doesn't dare launch another offensive. 

 

The idea that Russia is losing and about to topple is probably delusional at best. They're in a war time economy and can keep going for decades if need be. Ukraine doesn't have that kind of man power. 

 

But even if that is true, the idea that something better would emerge from a destabilized Russia is kind of crazy. As much of a gangster that Putin is, there's way worse over there waiting in the shadows. 

I kind of agree with this.  But this doesn't mean I agree in any way, shape, or form to Trump's idiotic approach to settlement discussions. 

[Homelander]

“We will take America without firing a shot. We do not have to invade the U.S. We will destroy you from within”.

Nikita Khrushchev

 

 

[LDD]

1 hour ago, wnyguy said:

I didn't say there was anything wrong with it. It's ingenious.

Lots of Russian sympathizing bots on this site, not saying you by any means, just making my position known.  

[wnyguy]

12 minutes ago, LDD said:

Lots of Russian sympathizing bots on this site, not saying you by any means, just making my position known.  

Understood, but I don't think anyone here sympathizes with Russia.

[4th&long]

1 hour ago, Roundybout said:

Ukraine cannot have an election during a war according to their own constitution. This is not a challenging concept for people who aren’t spoon fed Elon’s propaganda.

This is so easy to understand I never bothered to even respond to these idiots about it. I would rather they lose there minds over it. 

28 minutes ago, Homelander said:

“We will take America without firing a shot. We do not have to invade the U.S. We will destroy you from within”.

Nikita Khrushchev

 

 

Well we know how Maga feels about it. Trump has his lips locked on Putins ass, they are right there with Trump. Maga is not America tho. 

[wnyguy]

2 minutes ago, 4th&long said:

 

You are a self admitted troll. Leave the posting to people who aren't, please.

[4th&long]

6 minutes ago, wnyguy said:

Understood, but I don't think anyone here sympathizes with Russia.

I haven't seen anyone break from Trump. There is no on the fence. 

1 minute ago, wnyguy said:

You are a self admitted troll. Leave the posting to people who aren't, please.

And yet I still contribute more to this board than you. 

[Doc]

On 2/19/2025 at 2:01 PM, Joe Ferguson forever said:

Perhaps after 1 of 6 bankruptcies:

https://www.thoughtco.com/donald-trump-business-bankruptcies-4152019.

 

or perhaps helping him (or funneling money) through deutsche bank, his largest and longest creditor?

https://www.businessinsider.com/trumps-secret-ugly-breakup-with-deutsche-bank-revealed-2022-10

 

who knows.  It's not like the KGB hasn't used large sums of money to influence politicians before.

 

2 rooms, 3 docs again today?

 

"Perhaps."  Yeah and "perhaps" Wuhan virus came from a wet market without a shred of evidence.

 

You think the Dems haven't been working feverishly since 2016 to find this connection, much like China's been trying to find that animal vector to suppor the "wet market" theory?

 

No, was in a cataract room yesterday.  Could post 7 times during 1 case alone there...

 

On 2/19/2025 at 2:09 PM, Niagara Bill said:

Joe, I do not think Doc is a cult member...he is a thinking man, and as prove comes out he will recognize it. 

 

Thanks.  But as I asked above, how much longer are we going to have to wait for this proof?

[Niagara Bill]

2 hours ago, Motorin' said:

 

I think these are characterizations made by the entrenched left wing globalist politicians and media. 

 

I don't agree with a lot of those characterizations. 

 

I've seen deliberate misquotes by Trump and his admin. Like adding words he didn't say to make it look like Russia deserves the land they took. That's not what he's saying. 

 

He's saying it's unlikely that Ukraine is going to be able to win it back anytime soon. Not that Russia earned it or deserves it.

 

He's being a pragmatic realistic instead of a delusional ideologue. And I think you're reading a lot of things that are being twisted by delusional globalists 

ideologues. 

 

He hasn't abandoned NATO. He's said for the last 10 years that the other NATO countries aren't pulling their own weight. His actions over the last few weeks seem to be motivating the change he thinks needs to happen. That the European NATO allies need to pony up. 

 

The nasty talk about the US abandoning NATO, along with the counter threats to abandon the US seem to be coming from the very people that are spiteful about the gravy train being turned off. 

 

I don't think Trump is abandoning NATO or Ukraine. I think he's trying to force a cease fire and bring a negotiated end to the war. 

 

Ukraine's position so far has been they won't negotiate anything but a 100% return of land. And they will fight in perpetuity to get it back. And they assume that means unlimited US funding indefinitely. 

 

Unfortunately for Ukraine, this admin doesn't seem willing to continue to bleed out of our military resources so Ukraine can fight indefinitely. 

 

The other part of the delusional ideology of the globalists is this hope that they can replace Putin with a pro-Western liberal. Their lack of ability to perceive reality amounts to failing to understand that if Putin is ousted, the most likely scenario is that Russia will be ruled by far more sinister forces. Those itching to unleash  their nuclear arsenal on Ukraine and NATO allies supporting the Ukrainian war effort. 

 

So I read Trump's pressure on Zelensky and Ukraine as a means to force them to the negotiating table in order to prevent escalation, and to bring peace before this turns into a full blown regional war outside the borders of Ukraine. Which, if you listen to the globalists, is what they say the fighting in UKraine is all about. Keeping the fighting there so it doesn't expand to the rest of Europe. Trump's trying to end the fighting in Ukraine before it rages into something much larger. 

This us not pressure...this is pure bs to side with Putin and call Zelensky a dictator.

Trump is a bully, it is easy to sink your friends and allies and tough to stand up to Putin...

[Niagara Bill]

7 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

"Perhaps."  Yeah and "perhaps" Wuhan virus came from a wet market without a shred of evidence.

 

You think the Dems haven't been working feverishly since 2016 to find this connection, much like China's been trying to find that animal vector to suppor the "wet market" theory?

 

No, was in a cataract room yesterday.  Could post 7 times during 1 case alone there...

 

 

Thanks.  But as I asked above, how much longer are we going to have to wait for this proof?

2026 election cycle...the change in traditional constitutional process will begin.