Tiberius Posted June 12 Author Share Posted June 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 (edited) On 6/10/2024 at 10:06 PM, ChiGoose said: I have no special knowledge of Putin’s goals, just what is publicly available. Which includes invading NATO countries because he believes most Americans are like you and will fold, allowing him to take what he can without existential repercussions. If only I, or other citizens for that matter, had such influence over what our government does and doesn't do. While I'm entitled to my opinion and freely express it, I hold no illusions that my elected representatives sent to Washington care one bit about my views or positions on topics such as the war in Ukraine. One needs only look at the recent votes on aid to Israel and Ukraine and the pass Congress took on more funds for US border enforcement for a clue. Their agenda isn't driven by as grassroots movement on any point in the political spectrum. I would propose we end all foreign aid and give US taxpayers a 50% tax cut? I'm sure that would be immensely popular with the voters but the global interests running Washington and directing the voting choices of our Senators and Representatives would have none of that nonsense. My problem with supporting this proxy war is the architects and supporters of this effort are vastly underestimating the risk of one of several potential very bad outcomes while focusing on the one outcome that I view as impossible at the moment. A Ukrainian victory with a return to pre-war borders. I also believe the idea Russia is intent on invading western Europe for the re-establishment of Soviet era maps is pure delusion. Russia's economy simply does not produce enough capital and resources to carry out such an effort and from a military standpoint they would stand little to no chance of success. Everybody in the know, knows this but they prefer to peddle this bit of dis-information to keep the money flowing their way. Edited June 12 by All_Pro_Bills 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted June 12 Author Share Posted June 12 Russia has put over 500k troops in the field. With their bad logistics, Ukraine now blasting their supply chains nd Russia lack on much concern over their troops, this video might very well be a true statement on the state of events for the poor Russian soldiers 11 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: If only I, or other citizens for that matter, had such influence over what our government does and doesn't do. While I'm entitled to my opinion and freely express it, I hold no illusions that my elected representatives sent to Washington care one bit about my views or positions on topics such as the war in Ukraine. One needs only look at the recent votes on aid to Israel and Ukraine and the pass Congress took on more funds for US border enforcement for a clue. Their agenda isn't driven by as grassroots movement on any point in the political spectrum. I would propose we end all foreign aid and give US taxpayers a 50% tax cut? I'm sure that would be immensely popular with the voters but the global interests running Washington and directing the voting choices of our Senators and Representatives would have none of that nonsense. My problem with supporting this proxy war is the architects and supporters of this effort are vastly underestimating the risk of one of several potential very bad outcomes while focusing on the one outcome that I view as impossible at the moment. A Ukrainian victory with a return to pre-war borders. I also believe the idea Russia is intent on invading western Europe for the re-establishment of Soviet era maps is pure delusion. Russia's economy simply does not produce enough capital and resources to carry out such an effort and from a military standpoint they would stand little to no chance of success. Everybody in the know, knows this but they prefer to peddle this bit of dis-information to keep the money flowing their way. You want Ukraine to surrender to the people that will murder their citizens, rape their women, destroy their civil society, take away all their rights and freedoms and use their territory to further their aggression around the world You want to empower Putin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tiberius said: Russia has put over 500k troops in the field. With their bad logistics, Ukraine now blasting their supply chains nd Russia lack on much concern over their troops, this video might very well be a true statement on the state of events for the poor Russian soldiers You want Ukraine to surrender to the people that will murder their citizens, rape their women, destroy their civil society, take away all their rights and freedoms and use their territory to further their aggression around the world You want to empower Putin I'm a powerless citizen speaking my opinion, You disagree with my views. That's your right. But don't presume to know what I want. And the idea Putin is somehow enabled by my opinions is hopelessly comical. How exactly does that work? Is he on here posting on PPP? When you invoke Putin what you're really saying to me and others is "shut up". I understand. You're an idealist that sees this all in black vs. white, good vs. evil, binary thinking. I see lots of grey areas in the situation. You refuse to acknowledge that our government shares complicity with the Russians in creating the conditions that lead to the war. For one, engineering the overthrow of the previous government to install one more to Washington's liking. I could list more but why bother? You'll summarily reject them. That's all for today. Edited June 12 by All_Pro_Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted June 12 Author Share Posted June 12 39 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: I'm a powerless citizen speaking my opinion, You disagree with my views. That's your right. But don't presume to know what I want. And the idea Putin is somehow enabled by my opinions is hopelessly comical. How exactly does that work? Is he on here posting on PPP? When you invoke Putin what you're really saying to me and others is "shut up". I understand. You're an idealist that sees this all in black vs. white, good vs. evil, binary thinking. I see lots of grey areas in the situation. You refuse to acknowledge that our government shares complicity with the Russians in creating the conditions that lead to the war. For one, engineering the overthrow of the previous government to install one more to Washington's liking. I could list more but why bother? You'll summarily reject them. That's all for today. And your views match up perfectly will Putin's goals That's all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundybout Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 This would be a blow to Russia, especially if Armenia decides to put in for NATO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 10 minutes ago, Roundybout said: This would be a blow to Russia, especially if Armenia decides to put in for NATO Wouldn't the timing suggest that Armenia thinks Russia is particularly weak at this moment (being engaged in their stupid war in Ukraine) and that they seized the opportunity to assert more independence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L Ron Burgundy Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 7 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said: I'm a powerless citizen speaking my opinion, You disagree with my views. That's your right. But don't presume to know what I want. And the idea Putin is somehow enabled by my opinions is hopelessly comical. How exactly does that work? You say this and yet your opinions seem to line up 100% with what Putin wants us to think. Odd, no? How does it work? Are you being purposely naive? Misinformation. Which the entire right loves. You choose to believe Russian propaganda over legitimate information because it feeds into your narrative that somehow we instigated this war. Or that Zelensky is corrupt. Or that Ukraine has a terrible Nazi problem. You are all so banal. There's no legit discussion of the war from the right. Just, "Ukraine bad". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted June 13 Author Share Posted June 13 https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ckvv1wydkwqo The US has broadened its sanctions on Russia, including a fresh crackdown on banks dealing with sanctioned entities. It expands a December programme to target foreign banks deemed to be aiding Russia's war effort in Ukraine. The US also placed sanctions on the Moscow stock exchange, leading to it halt trading in dollars and euros. It also moved to try to restrict Russia's use of technology, including chips and software. US President Joe Biden signed an executive order in December that imposed sanctions on banks dealing with about 1,200 individuals and companies deemed to be helping Russia's war machine. Those measures, which expose banks to the risk of being cut off from the US financial system, have now been expanded to about 4,500 entities. The US will also target on gold-laundering. Peter Harrell, a former White House senior director for international economics, told the Reuters news agency that the US "is shifting towards something that begins to look like an effort to set up a global financial embargo on Russia". As part of this effort, the US Treasury announced that it would impose sanctions on parts of Russia's financial system, including the Moscow Exchange, which is one of Russia's main stock exchanges. The stock exchange, which is Russia's largest foreign exchange market, said the sanctions had forced it to stop trading in dollars and euros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted June 13 Author Share Posted June 13 https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/06/13/us-ukraine-security-deal-g7/ President Biden and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky plan Thursday to sign a 10-year security agreement that will commit Washington to supply Kyiv with a wide range of military assistance, national security adviser Jake Sullivan said, in a bid to bolster Ukraine’s fight with Russia. The deal aims to commit future U.S. administrations to support Ukraine, even if former president Donald Trump wins November’s election, officials said. It will be a framework for a long-term effort by the United States to help develop Ukraine’s armed forces, which have innovated on drone warfare and other cutting-edge techniques in the fight against Russia, but are also desperately outgunned and in need of modern weapons. Washington will strengthen Ukraine’s “credible defense and deterrence capability,” Sullivan said. “If [Russian President] Vladimir Putin thinks that he can outlast the coalition supporting Ukraine, he’s wrong.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L Ron Burgundy Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 Russian economy imploding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 https://www.yahoo.com/news/ukraine-draft-woes-leave-west-123700608.html Ukraine’s current military recruitment campaign is not going according to plan. Announced on April 16, 2024, the drive was aimed at enlisting hundreds of thousands of young Ukrainian men to help push back against a Russian invasion that has gained momentum in recent months. But the effort has been met with public skepticism, draft dodging and opposition to unpopular, heavy-handed attempts to root out those not heeding the call to sign up. It has left Ukraine struggling to fill the positions officials say are needed to beat back the invading army. Not good for the defense of Ukraine. Who's gonna send troops? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 Putin's calling for a peace deal. The left is attacking it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 13 minutes ago, Tommy Callahan said: Putin's calling for a peace deal. The left is attacking it. WTF?! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Doc said: WTF?! It's a preposterous proposal. We keep all of the land. You don't join NATO. Kind of like the Third Reich proposing to the Allies that they will agree to a ceasefire on June 10 1944 if the Allies cede all lands gained to them to date, and refuse to engage in further alliances that make them one unified force. Sure. Edited June 14 by sherpa 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 1 minute ago, sherpa said: It's a preposterous proposal. We keep all of the land. You don't join NATO. Sure. No I meant the Capitol break-in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted June 14 Author Share Posted June 14 3 hours ago, Tommy Callahan said: So much winning! Damn, if House Republicans had got their act together sooner, Putin would of been crying for peace months ago 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeesforclosers Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 So Russia's "peace" plan is concede all of Russia's current gains, and concede collective security via NATO as preconditions for starting negotiations? Man, it's like this plan is designed to be rejected... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 2014 western backed Euromaidan revolution/coup. 2014, disputed regions counter revolution as the population of those regions are 75+% Russians. Disputed region has election. people choose to not be part of Ukraine. But the only peace deal can be the Non-Democratic Ukraine joining NATO even though they have never been able to meet the basic requirements for it. And Russia abandoning the Russians, Energy lines/sources/ strategic port of Crimea. So, until Russia and its citizens go back to the pre-2014-euro maiden border, No deal. Would probably require a mass evacuation of all the Russian citizens, as they would be free game. But for real, Ukraine couldn't meet the requirements for NATO in 2012, How do they now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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