Tiberius Posted April 4 Author Posted April 4 1 minute ago, All_Pro_Bills said: If you accept the premise of all these reports you can only conclude the Russian military is incapable of hitting any targets except apartment buildings, schools, hospitals, shopping districts, and other civilian assets while completely missing all military targets of any value. Which begs the question why the war isn't over? That's what terrorist do 1 1
All_Pro_Bills Posted April 4 Posted April 4 27 minutes ago, Tiberius said: That's what terrorist do You demonstrate expert ability at answering a question without providing an answer. You'd make an excellent white house press secretary. 1
Tommy Callahan Posted April 4 Posted April 4 They cannot hit any of the financial/governance demands but damit. There is a war to be had. 1
Doc Posted April 4 Posted April 4 1 hour ago, Tommy Callahan said: They cannot hit any of the financial/governance demands but damit. There is a war to be had. After the war. Right? 1
Tommy Callahan Posted April 4 Posted April 4 48 minutes ago, Doc said: After the war. Right? I hope but that's not how it's sounding. Unless they are close to a ceasefire or end to the war.
B-Man Posted April 9 Posted April 9 Uh-huh. Zelensky Issues Ultimatum, Warns Ukraine ‘Will Lose’ If U.S. Refuses Further Aid https://redstate.com/benkew/2024/04/08/zelensky-issues-ultimatum-warns-ukraine-will-lose-if-us-refuses-further-aid-n2172495 . 1
L Ron Burgundy Posted April 9 Posted April 9 (edited) 7 hours ago, Tommy Callahan said: This isn't good. When you say this isn't good, do you perhaps mean made up? I'm guessing the Twitter incel community is working hard sharing this to make it go viral though. Edited April 10 by L Ron Burgundy 1
All_Pro_Bills Posted April 10 Posted April 10 (edited) 2 hours ago, L Ron Burgundy said: When you say this isn't good, do you perhaps mean made up? I'm guessing the Twitter incel community is working hard sharing this to make it go viral though. I'm skeptical of this Burisma connection but I also never believed the ISIS-K story either. My guess is State intel of some nation or two, etc., is behind the attack. Some terrorist group? Come on. Edited April 10 by All_Pro_Bills 1
L Ron Burgundy Posted April 10 Posted April 10 1 hour ago, All_Pro_Bills said: I'm skeptical of this Burisma connection but I also never believed the ISIS-K story either. My guess is State intel of some nation or two, etc., is behind the attack. Some terrorist group? Come on. It's an absurd accusation and it doesn't make sense. Ukraine is trying to be the "good guy" in this war. Sure there's the occasional rogue incident but that will happen when one side is castrating enemy soldiers and raping anything breathing. Having spent years in the region trust me when I say there's a segment of the population who are barely human. It's amazing Zelensky has his soldiers not answering in kind more often. 1
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted April 10 Posted April 10 9 hours ago, L Ron Burgundy said: It's an absurd accusation and it doesn't make sense. Ukraine is trying to be the "good guy" in this war. Sure there's the occasional rogue incident but that will happen when one side is castrating enemy soldiers and raping anything breathing. Having spent years in the region trust me when I say there's a segment of the population who are barely human. It's amazing Zelensky has his soldiers not answering in kind more often. I don’t know anything about the region, and a Burisma connection seems unreasonably convenient. It would fall into the “50+ of our most experienced intelligence experts declare a laptop to be Russian malfeasance right before a highly contentious presidential election” convenient, but that’s a different discussion. With respect to Ukrainian activity, I’d think it’s fair to consider whether or not “occasional rogue incidents” accurately reflects what’s going on there. It would seem unlikely that one side is practicing barbarism on the scale of 10/7, and the other maintaining operational and ethical discipline while in a fight to the death. 1
All_Pro_Bills Posted April 10 Posted April 10 22 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: I don’t know anything about the region, and a Burisma connection seems unreasonably convenient. It would fall into the “50+ of our most experienced intelligence experts declare a laptop to be Russian malfeasance right before a highly contentious presidential election” convenient, but that’s a different discussion. With respect to Ukrainian activity, I’d think it’s fair to consider whether or not “occasional rogue incidents” accurately reflects what’s going on there. It would seem unlikely that one side is practicing barbarism on the scale of 10/7, and the other maintaining operational and ethical discipline while in a fight to the death. I forget the song but it goes something like this... "There's 3 sides to every story. Yours, mine, and the truth". If you talk to Ukraine and the West the Russians are intent on destroying democracy in Ukraine and invading Europe with the goal of re-uniting the former Soviet Union. If you talk to Russia, the west and NATO want to encircle and isolate their country with the intent of taking over and stealing their resources like oil and mineral resources. The truth might meet somewhere in between. 1
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted April 10 Posted April 10 40 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: I forget the song but it goes something like this... "There's 3 sides to every story. Yours, mine, and the truth". If you talk to Ukraine and the West the Russians are intent on destroying democracy in Ukraine and invading Europe with the goal of re-uniting the former Soviet Union. If you talk to Russia, the west and NATO want to encircle and isolate their country with the intent of taking over and stealing their resources like oil and mineral resources. The truth might meet somewhere in between. Yes, I think that expression has broad application in life, and try to consider the perspective of the other party when speaking on subjects that are interesting to me. With respect to La Ron’s post, the added layer of complexity is the tone and direction of reporting coming out of the conflict. As we have so often seen, an administration can flex its muscles to encourage stories be told in a certain way, with certain facts revealed and others withheld. My point simply was while the Ukrainians may well be skilled, effective and disciplined fighters who follow such strict rules of engagement that acts of vengeance and rapidly dispensed field justice are few and far between, but I wouldn’t bet on it. 1
Tommy Callahan Posted April 10 Posted April 10 15 hours ago, L Ron Burgundy said: Twitter incel community is working hard sharing this to make it go viral though. The iron law of projection. you constantly use that term and its kinda reads like projection. but then again, the left has this issue with accusing others of doing/being exactly what they are.
Tommy Callahan Posted April 10 Posted April 10 (edited) Did Ukraine attack a NATO member? Edited April 10 by Tommy Callahan 1
L Ron Burgundy Posted April 10 Posted April 10 2 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: I don’t know anything about the region, and a Burisma connection seems unreasonably convenient. It would fall into the “50+ of our most experienced intelligence experts declare a laptop to be Russian malfeasance right before a highly contentious presidential election” convenient, but that’s a different discussion. With respect to Ukrainian activity, I’d think it’s fair to consider whether or not “occasional rogue incidents” accurately reflects what’s going on there. It would seem unlikely that one side is practicing barbarism on the scale of 10/7, and the other maintaining operational and ethical discipline while in a fight to the death. Unreasonably convenient would be right. Absurdly so. Technology has made it so you can't get away with things like you used to. I'm not saying Ukraine are the good guys but they are trying to be. Now Russia on the other hand has given awards notorious war criminals. Bucha was pretty bad. A lot of atrocities are actually online. Some of the worst, Russians took videos of themselves. Yes as Ap said 3 sides, I agree. But there's an obvious difference between the 2 sides. 1
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted April 10 Posted April 10 (edited) 19 minutes ago, L Ron Burgundy said: Unreasonably convenient would be right. Absurdly so. We already agreed on the Burisma connection. Moveon.com! 19 minutes ago, L Ron Burgundy said: Technology has made it so you can't get away with things like you used to. I don't know what this means to you, but censorship and withholding/manipulation of the truth is alive and well---and it seems that everyone with a pulse agrees on that. You might say it's one side, I might think it's the other, but the masses are still yearning for an honest, ethical free press. 19 minutes ago, L Ron Burgundy said: I'm not saying Ukraine are the good guys but they are trying to be. I'll circle back to where I started. I could not tell you a bit about Ukraine, Russia, borders, culture, and who seized who(m)'s lands, who misappropriated what, and what percentage of the Ukrainian population might well want to return to Mother Russia (though from wiki, the population is 17% Russian, which makes me wonder). I can't tell you about hostilities, who said what to whom, and who has partnered with what foreign adversary. I will say I am extraordinarily cautious on declaring any side 'the good guys' to the extent I believe there are only a few isolated instances of torture by a rogue band of soldiers. That defies common sense. 19 minutes ago, L Ron Burgundy said: Now Russia on the other hand has given awards notorious war criminals. Bucha was pretty bad. A lot of atrocities are actually online. Some of the worst, Russians took videos of themselves. No argument. 19 minutes ago, L Ron Burgundy said: Yes as Ap said 3 sides, I agree. But there's an obvious difference between the 2 sides. If you have to pick a side, I agree you pick the lesser of two evils, and one that more closely aligns with our nation's strategic interest. Russia hasn't fit that bill since just before the election of 2016. Besides, after JB famously got rid of that one bad apple in a country of 33 million people, we can sleep easy at night knowing our money and weapons are going to a corruption free zone. Edited April 10 by leh-nerd skin-erd 2
Tiberius Posted April 10 Author Posted April 10 3 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: We already agreed on the Burisma connection. Moveon.com! I don't know what this means to you, but censorship and withholding/manipulation of the truth is alive and well---and it seems that everyone with a pulse agrees on that. You might say it's one side, I might think it's the other, but the masses are still yearning for an honest, ethical free press. I'll circle back to where I started. I could not tell you a bit about Ukraine, Russia, borders, culture, and who seized who(m)'s lands, who misappropriated what, and what percentage of the Ukrainian population might well want to return to Mother Russia (though from wiki, the population is 17% Russian, which makes me wonder). I can't tell you about hostilities, who said what to whom, and who has partnered with what foreign adversary. I will say I am extraordinarily cautious on declaring any side 'the good guys' to the extent I believe there are only a few isolated instances of torture by a rogue band of soldiers. That defies common sense. No argument. If you have to pick a side, I agree you pick the lesser of two evils, and one that more closely aligns with our nation's strategic interest. Russia hasn't fit that bill since just before the election of 2016. Besides, after JB famously got rid of that one bad apple in a country of 33 million people, we can sleep easy at night knowing our money and weapons are going to a corruption free zone. Oh, you don't see the aggressor as bad? The nation being bombarded with missiles, drones and artillery as the victim? The democracy vs the dictatorship? I was about to say the country that attacked--is attacking--our election system, but no way in hell would you accept that, so never mind.
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