Democracy’s Fiery Ordeal: The War in Ukraine 🇺🇦

[B-Man]

 

 

 

 

     

 

 

 

                    

 

[Tiberius]

4 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ya, the age of twitter, we need fast definitions, or you fail. 

1 minute ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

 

     

 

 

 

                    

 

What is your opinion of Putin

[B-Man]

 

 

Our country is in trouble.

 

 

 

[Tiberius]

6 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

Our country is in trouble.

 

 

 

Is Putin a bad man? 

[B-Man]

 

"Because you have crossed this red line, we are going to increase the economic pain on you just a little bit more."

 

Does something like that really make a guy like Putin think twice?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, B-Man said:

 

"Because you have crossed this red line, we are going to increase the economic pain on you just a little bit more."

 

Does something like that really make a guy like Putin think twice?

 

 

 

 

 

 

So we should be tougher?

 

Gees, Putin’s threatening to snuff out a free people and you attack Biden. 

[Westside]

6 hours ago, Tiberius said:

That’s a really stupid question, completely off point and divorced from reality. 

 

 

Taiwan should and must be defended. Biden did send a carrier battle group through the South China Sea and China went ballistic. I guess you did not know that

 

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/navy/591015-us-aircraft-carriers-enter-south-china-sea-amid-tensions-between-taiwan

I’m glad you’re at least consistent 👍🏻

[sherpa]

9 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Oh, too cowardly to give us your solution? You asked, I said what I’d do.  What do you got for us? Aside from insulting your better. 

 

 

Nothing works without at least the threat of force. Go hide under your bed if you are afraid to stand up because  WWIII, sure do nothing. And the next time this punk comes for something, turn the other cheek. Because “WWIII” 

 

Cowardly?

Your answer is that you'd somehow involve the US Air Force and you think that is a valid response?

There is no military solution that the US could apply.

It would be absolutely crazy to commit US forces to that area under these circumstances.

Suicide, and would undoubtedly result in a massive compromise of our abilities.

Here's what it would take, and this is not a complete list.

The entire US Air Force in Europe, including F-35's, F-22's.

Where do we base them?

Where do we base the Command and Control assets, ie., AWACS.

If we don't base them in the Ukraine, which we would never do, we would need massive tanker assets to support them.

We would need takers in the Ukraine even if we did base them there.

F-35's and F-22's are stealth. That stealth is completely lost if you strap external fuel tanks on them, thus the need for a massive tanker support force.

Naval Air would require incredibly long missions, probably six hour and needing to tank three times per sortie.

The Russians have very capable air defense. We would certainly lose a number of aircraft, requiring a significant search and rescue capability,

We would need huge electronic jamming and countermeasure assets to combat the air defense system.

This is, after all, right on their border.

 

I could go on and on, but I doubt you have any background in any of this that would cause you to think differently.

As far as the "coward" thing, I flew hundreds of sorties off the USS Kitty Hawk, and most of that in the South China Sea, which you mentioned earlier as Biden's "new" bold deployment.

Over three hundred landings on carriers.

You questioning my level of "coward" isn't going to bother me.

 

You want a solution?

Get NATO to draw a line in the sand regarding Putin's westward expansion.

It would take four months to set up for a proper chance of success, but a unified NATO could do it.

Understand though, depending on how resolute he is, and I doubt he would go that far, it would be WWIII.

'

[Tiberius]

3 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

Cowardly?

Your answer is that you'd somehow involve the US Air Force and you think that is a valid response?

There is no military solution that the US could apply.

It would be absolutely crazy to commit US forces to that area under these circumstances.

Suicide, and would undoubtedly result in a massive compromise of our abilities.

Here's what it would take, and this is not a complete list.

The entire US Air Force in Europe, including F-35's, F-22's.

Where do we base them?

Where do we base the Command and Control assets, ie., AWACS.

If we don't base them in the Ukraine, which we would never do, we would need massive tanker assets to support them.

We would need takers in the Ukraine even if we did base them there.

F-35's and F-22's are stealth. That stealth is completely lost if you strap external fuel tanks on them, thus the need for a massive tanker support force.

Naval Air would require incredibly long missions, probably six hour and needing to tank three times per sortie.

The Russians have very capable air defense. We would certainly lose a number of aircraft, requiring a significant search and rescue capability,

We would need huge electronic jamming and countermeasure assets to combat the air defense system.

This is, after all, right on their border.

 

I could go on and on, but I doubt you have any background in any of this that would cause you to think differently.

As far as the "coward" thing, I flew hundreds of sorties off the USS Kitty Hawk, and most of that in the South China Sea, which you mentioned earlier as Biden's "new" bold deployment.

Over three hundred landings on carriers.

You questioning my level of "coward" isn't going to bother me.

 

You want a solution?

Get NATO to draw a line in the sand regarding Putin's westward expansion.

It would take four months to set up for a proper chance of success, but a unified NATO could do it.

Understand though, depending on how resolute he is, and I doubt he would go that far, it would be WWIII.

'

 

4 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

Cowardly?

Your answer is that you'd somehow involve the US Air Force and you think that is a valid response?

There is no military solution that the US could apply.

It would be absolutely crazy to commit US forces to that area under these circumstances.

Suicide, and would undoubtedly result in a massive compromise of our abilities.

Here's what it would take, and this is not a complete list.

The entire US Air Force in Europe, including F-35's, F-22's.

Where do we base them?

Where do we base the Command and Control assets, ie., AWACS.

If we don't base them in the Ukraine, which we would never do, we would need massive tanker assets to support them.

We would need takers in the Ukraine even if we did base them there.

F-35's and F-22's are stealth. That stealth is completely lost if you strap external fuel tanks on them, thus the need for a massive tanker support force.

Naval Air would require incredibly long missions, probably six hour and needing to tank three times per sortie.

The Russians have very capable air defense. We would certainly lose a number of aircraft, requiring a significant search and rescue capability,

We would need huge electronic jamming and countermeasure assets to combat the air defense system.

This is, after all, right on their border.

 

I could go on and on, but I doubt you have any background in any of this that would cause you to think differently.

As far as the "coward" thing, I flew hundreds of sorties off the USS Kitty Hawk, and most of that in the South China Sea, which you mentioned earlier as Biden's "new" bold deployment.

Over three hundred landings on carriers.

You questioning my level of "coward" isn't going to bother me.

 

You want a solution?

Get NATO to draw a line in the sand regarding Putin's westward expansion.

It would take four months to set up for a proper chance of success, but a unified NATO could do it.

Understand though, depending on how resolute he is, and I doubt he would go that far, it would be WWIII.

'

First off, you are writing off Ukraine with your “solution” is that correct? 

[Tiberius]

6 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

Cowardly?

Your answer is that you'd somehow involve the US Air Force and you think that is a valid response?

There is no military solution that the US could apply.

It would be absolutely crazy to commit US forces to that area under these circumstances.

Suicide, and would undoubtedly result in a massive compromise of our abilities.

Here's what it would take, and this is not a complete list.

The entire US Air Force in Europe, including F-35's, F-22's.

Where do we base them?

Where do we base the Command and Control assets, ie., AWACS.

If we don't base them in the Ukraine, which we would never do, we would need massive tanker assets to support them.

We would need takers in the Ukraine even if we did base them there.

F-35's and F-22's are stealth. That stealth is completely lost if you strap external fuel tanks on them, thus the need for a massive tanker support force.

Naval Air would require incredibly long missions, probably six hour and needing to tank three times per sortie.

The Russians have very capable air defense. We would certainly lose a number of aircraft, requiring a significant search and rescue capability,

We would need huge electronic jamming and countermeasure assets to combat the air defense system.

This is, after all, right on their border.

 

I could go on and on, but I doubt you have any background in any of this that would cause you to think differently.

As far as the "coward" thing, I flew hundreds of sorties off the USS Kitty Hawk, and most of that in the South China Sea, which you mentioned earlier as Biden's "new" bold deployment.

Over three hundred landings on carriers.

You questioning my level of "coward" isn't going to bother me.

 

You want a solution?

Get NATO to draw a line in the sand regarding Putin's westward expansion.

It would take four months to set up for a proper chance of success, but a unified NATO could do it.

Understand though, depending on how resolute he is, and I doubt he would go that far, it would be WWIII.

'

Second, it seems you are unaware we are already flying over Ukraine. Did you know that? 

 

American aircraft  can operate in Ukraine. You talked about this before like it’s a third world country without airports.  And Poland is right next door, not sure if they would let us, but I’m sure they don’t want the Russians right next door.  As are other NATO countries

 

You may or may not have flown off the Kitty Hawk, but I don’t believe you. Maybe you are not lying, but I doubt it. 

 

 

And settle down. Most people agree with you. Not sure what you are so worked up, no one else is listening to me. The west is ready to let Putin roll over a republic 

[sherpa]

6 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

 

First off, you are writing off Ukraine with your “solution” is that correct? 

 

No.

I'm not "writing off the Ukraine."

It is up to Ukraine to not write off Ukraine.

It would depend on where NATO drew the line, and that would depend, most importantly, on Ukraine resistance to the Russians and their support of NATO.

Those are unknowns, and we have been bitten twice.

The thought of Joe Biden, who has never done anything, and his political team, leading this makes me think of the catastrophe of Lyndon Johnson and Robert McNamara in Vietnam.

 

What I am saying is that you have suggested nothing approaching reality, display no evidence of understanding, and I didn't even mention ground troops in my missive.

It would take tens of thousands.

Air power has made the battlefield easy and a done deal for our ground troops in Desert Storm and the second Gulf War.

The ground guys went at full speed with no resistance. 

That wouldn't happen against the Russians.

9 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

You may or may not have flown off the Kitty Hawk, but I don’t believe you. Maybe you are not lying, but I doubt it. 

 

 

Tell you what.

Send me your email and I'll send you copies of my logbook and a Kitty Hawk cruise book which identifies me and has pics.

Frankly, I don't give a rat's what you believe.

[Orlando Buffalo]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

Is Putin a bad man? 

Yes Putin is a bad man, I think you are the only person on here arguing otherwise 

[snafu]

41 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

And settle down. Most people agree with you. Not sure what you are so worked up, no one else is listening to me. The west is ready to let Putin roll over a republic 

 

Our President isn't listening to you.

Our President is ready to let Putin roll over a republic.

All he's done is predict war and threaten sanctions -- nothing more. He hasn't rallied any European leaders, He hasn't bullied the German Chancellor into action. He's treated the President of Ukraine like a crapstain.  He sent his VP to Munich (of all places) so she could wear a mask and jibberjabber.  His Secretary of State went to the UN and didn't get anything accomplished.  It sure is easy to predict war when do you don't do anything to prevent it.

 

And before you go to your standard: "why are you attacking Biden" routine, note that Putin is one of the worst scum on the planet.  Biden was elected to stand up to Russia -- because he's not a Putin Puppet.  And he's done jack squat to live up to anyone's expectations.  Why CAN'T someone question his decisions and mishandling of this situation?  It's still a free country here, right?

 

[GETTOTHE50]

First of all, ***** Russia.

 

Second of all, who cares what happens to Ukraine.

 

Third of all, Biden is beyond terrible. Putin was licking his chops when that senile ####### got into office. 
 

For as stupid as republicans are, democrats are a million times dumber. Like atleast trump had solid foreign policy. Biden is a catastrophe. But you ***** dems don’t give a damn about this country and only care about feelings and power. ***** morons 

[All_Pro_Bills]

20 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Yes Putin is a bad man, I think you are the only person on here arguing otherwise 

Yes Putin is a bad man.  But that doesn't change the reality that he just Beech slapped Biden and his bumbling administration.  That version of the story is just not acceptable to the establishment and an expectation of even lower approval ratings and a distinct chance of a November rout in the mid-terms seems likely. 

 

So the big question is when does the consensus narrative shift away from discussing responses to the old stand by of blaming the Trump administration for failure to act during his term which left Biden in a precarious no-win situation?  And thereby absolving Joe of any blame or accountability.  Watch for clues during the rehearsed White House press conference Q&A session where Peppermint Patty receives the softball question planted in the media room with an answer that will signal to the media to initiate this story line.  You can set your watch to this, guaranteed.  

Edited February 22, 2022 by All_Pro_Bills

[BringMetheHeadofLeonLett]

This page is hilarious. 

(not you, Sherpa)

[Big Blitz]

Yep.  Dust off the tanks.  But Orange Man hurt my feelings daily.   

 

 

[Tiberius]

“I went in yesterday and there was a television screen, and I said, ‘This is genius,’ ” Trump continued. “Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine — of Ukraine. Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful. So, Putin is now saying, ‘It’s independent,’ a large section of Ukraine. I said, ‘How smart is that?’ And he’s gonna go in and be a peacekeeper. That’s strongest peace force … We could use that on our southern border.”

 

Donald J Trump 

 

Hes on Putin side, as if we already didn’t know that 

1 hour ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

First of all, ***** Russia.

 

Second of all, who cares what happens to Ukraine.

 

Third of all, Biden is beyond terrible. Putin was licking his chops when that senile ####### got into office. 
 

Who cares? Lots of people do, What could Biden do different? 

1 hour ago, snafu said:

 

Our President isn't listening to you.

Our President is ready to let Putin roll over a republic.

All he's done is predict war and threaten sanctions -- nothing more. He hasn't rallied any European leaders, He hasn't bullied the German Chancellor into action. He's treated the President of Ukraine like a crapstain.  He sent his VP to Munich (of all places) so she could wear a mask and jibberjabber.  His Secretary of State went to the UN and didn't get anything accomplished.  It sure is easy to predict war when do you don't do anything to prevent it.

 

And before you go to your standard: "why are you attacking Biden" routine, note that Putin is one of the worst scum on the planet.  Biden was elected to stand up to Russia -- because he's not a Putin Puppet.  And he's done jack squat to live up to anyone's expectations.  Why CAN'T someone question his decisions and mishandling of this situation?  It's still a free country here, right?

 

So we should be telling Putin that if he takes one step over the boarder we will annihilate his army. We can do that. Do you think the threat of real force would deter him? Or not doing that, we get an opportunity to destroy it like we destroyed Saddams in early 90’s? 

[Tiberius]

2 hours ago, sherpa said:

 

No.

I'm not "writing off the Ukraine."

It is up to Ukraine to not write off Ukraine.

It would depend on where NATO drew the line, and that would depend, most importantly, on Ukraine resistance to the Russians and their support of NATO.

Those are unknowns, and we have been bitten twice.

The thought of Joe Biden, who has never done anything, and his political team, leading this makes me think of the catastrophe of Lyndon Johnson and Robert McNamara in Vietnam.

 

What I am saying is that you have suggested nothing approaching reality, display no evidence of understanding, and I didn't even mention ground troops in my missive.

It would take tens of thousands.

Air power has made the battlefield easy and a done deal for our ground troops in Desert Storm and the second Gulf War.

The ground guys went at full speed with no resistance. 

That wouldn't happen against the Russians.

 

Tell you what.

Send me your email and I'll send you copies of my logbook and a Kitty Hawk cruise book which identifies me and has pics.

Frankly, I don't give a rat's what you believe.

But drawing a line? So you actually are willing to risk WW3 but not over Ukraine, but some other country? 

[ALF]

7 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

“I went in yesterday and there was a television screen, and I said, ‘This is genius,’ ” Trump continued. “Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine — of Ukraine. Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful. So, Putin is now saying, ‘It’s independent,’ a large section of Ukraine. I said, ‘How smart is that?’ And he’s gonna go in and be a peacekeeper. That’s strongest peace force … We could use that on our southern border.”

 

Donald J Trump 

 

Hes on Putin side, as if we already didn’t know that 

Who cares? Lots of people do, What could Biden do different? 

So we should be telling Putin that if he takes one step over the boarder we will annihilate his army. We can do that. Do you think the threat of real force would deter him? Or not doing that, we get an opportunity to destroy it like we destroyed Saddams in early 90’s? 

 

I was just going to ask what would Trump do in the Ukraine situation , now we know.